First off, I empathize. Secondly, I might say that many boys deal with this so it may be simply a brain maturation issue, and similar for your daughter, where time will correct much of it. One thing that I haven’t read while scrolling the responses is Asperger’s. The “shiny object for hours” example reminded me of some of those traits.
At various times, I’ve felt similar like I’m working for my kid. We still do almost daily encouraging/warning to get one thing done (“be sure to get this signed” or “check with your teacher about X”) that’s beyond the scope of their routine. Be sure to speak with other parents (especially daughter’s friends’) who might be able to give you perspective. We are often more critical of our kids and it’s helpful to learn that you might not be in the same boat. If I were to guess, I’d bet your daughter is very easy-going (my S is) and can roll with the punches. I think this suggests tremendous “bounce back” ability (something that us parents lose with age and replace with regret). If she’s doing so well in school, has friends, and gets along with others, then I’d say she’s doing very well. I’m sure there’s things that can be improved but that’s up to her and your family.
Regarding organization, we have several large whiteboards (Home Depot- less than $10 for a white panel board in lumber area), one in the living room (visual schedule of the week & month) and others we use for big projects like college apps/prep. Also, I’ve tried to get my S to use bullet journaling to start organizing better. I think the more they think about it and talk about it, the more the schedule seeps into their brain.
For college, look into liberal arts colleges especially ones with good teaching ratings (I like Princeton Reviews ratings), as those colleges are more likely to be better training grounds for kids who don’t have all their stuff together. After doing many college tours, we’ve often heard at LACs that it’s common for professors to check in on students who miss class or have a class over for dinner. This more hands-on approach I’ve found usually exemplifies how the college intends to treat your child.
Just want to say again, that a neuropsych. evaluation often won’t diagnose ADHD because the conditions are artificial. You really need a psychiatrist to diagnose ADHD and there is no reliable test, only interview and questionnaire. Meds can be helpful as long as they are used, not abused, and accommodations can be crucial.
It is absolutely not true that you need accommodations in high school to get accommodations in college. It might make it easier, but plenty of kids are diagnosed just before or during college. (College Board accommodations can be a different story, since the tests are taken during high school generally speaking.) Getting a 504 with an ADHD diagnosis takes very little time and one meeting with the coordinator of the school.
Sometime EF issues are not something kids learn or overcome. They will always need some help. It is a fact, so let’s not mix kids who just need to learn better skills with kids who have blockers in this space making it a nightmare.
Get a diagnosis, go to a college with EF supports. My kid will go to Emerson, which has good support for this, but a number of the SUNYs also have Spectrum services, and Purchase has a separate support (costs more).
Our neuropsych told us that executive function disorder basically is ADHD, it just can’t be officially diagnosed as ADHD unless there is support for the “significant impairment in two areas of life” prong of the test. So, for instance, if a kid is in a big school and the teacher who sees the kid for an hour a day doesn’t see ADHD, then there is no ADHD diagnosis. I would suggest finding a psychiatrist that specializes in ADHD and having her evaluated.
OP, I’m glad you’re taking action now. My DS is now 23 and was supposed to graduate from college a year ago. He walked across the stage this year, before knowing that he failed 2 classes this past semester. He’s very bright, very sweet, and very tactile, meaning if you give him a job with his hands, he’s the best. But give him a full courseload, and it spells complete disaster.
This time last year he was diagnosed as probably ADHD, and was prescribed meds, after going on academic probation. He had a prestigious, out-of-state internship last summer (unpaid), and he did a phenomenal job. We hoped this success would translate to better academic results. But that semester he still failed one class, and also got a D in the first of a full-year class. He pleaded to continue, so he could graduate this spring. We just found out that during the spring semester he couldn’t find the time to renew his ADHD prescription, he didn’t use any of the tutoring or academic support services he agreed to use, he lied about pretty much everything and it’s devastating to see this wonderful person reduced to this academic failure. Most people know how to break their fall; DS has no ability to stop the free fall. His college transcript is atrocious; it cannot be shown to any potential empli
I am trying to line up a neuropsychologist for a full evaluation, but it needs to be a good one. Is there any kind of accreditation or grading system for np’s? My younger son had a post-concussion evaluation by an np and it was worthless. I told the np how bright this kid is, but still her evaluation was that “he was smart enough, so any reduction in cognitive abilities didn’t matter”—grrrr. My older son desperately needs help; how do I get him on the right path? I ache to help him. There’s no way this doesn’t impact his self-worth. He is deeply ashamed and I feel like I’ve failed him.
I agree with much that was said regarding getting a neuropsych eval. For ShawD, we actually had to get two as the second one was much more thorough than the first. In particular, there was a test called, I think, TOVA, which helped in getting SAT/ACT accommodations.
With ShawSon, who was/is severely dyslexic, somewhat ADHD and EF was an issue through HS. I did some of the executive secretary function but we hired my wife’s cousin as a coach while he was in HS if not before – she has worked with a number of gifted kids with different learning issues. She continued to work with him via phone and email while he was in college, reading his emails to make sure he wasn’t missing assignments or changes, etc. I recommended her to someone else whose kid was having EF issues at college and I think she is working with them from a distance. It was a big help. OP, I’d recommend finding someone like my wife’s cousin.
The good news: ShawSon did extremely well in college and has been doing well thereafter – co-founded a tech company in his senior year, was CEO for 1.5 years, went to the West Coast for an MBA and MS in Data Science, and has co-founded another company that followed from some research he did. EF is less of a problem, but he succeeds by massive drive (and IQ) but with intense focus, so he just ignores details of daily life as he can’t manage all of the details and push hard on his work. [This may make him a challenging boyfriend].
The next piece of relevant news. Since I stopped being an employee, I have hired an executive/personal assistant. The job description is to take on all tasks away from me that the person can (most have been female and all the good ones have) whether the task is professional (schedule a series of meetings in London and Stockholm with senior execs at two clients and arrange all travel and then add meetings with people at other companies in the area and find out about dress codes; arrange dinners for me on the trip, …) or personal (find out my kids’ school vacations, help plan a trip to China, get visas, …). ShawSon has consulted me on his new hires, but in particular asked my opinion about who to hire and he has just hired an executive assistant with the job description I give to my EA/PAs. So @mommafox999, even if the EF issues don’t go away, your D may be able to create a life where she can hire the right help.
catpb’s quote is horrendous:" I told the np how bright this kid is, but still her evaluation was that “he was smart enough, so any reduction in cognitive abilities didn’t matter”
We have seen this with friends and family who have, variously, stroke, bipolar disorder, seizure disorder, and serious traumatic brain injury. When a very bright individual who has had a stroke, for instance, takes a test and registers as “normal range,” it is impossible to get attention or help despite the fact that “normal range” means, for them, a significant decline.
The whole point of the ADA is that the law says people are entitled to function at the level of their abilities. In the realm of EF or learning challenges or ADHD this does not mean at the reduced level caused by the disability. It means at the level of their intelligence without those obstacles. In an ideal world, everyone would understand the concept of “level playing field.”.
Of course public schools rarely recognize this either and if a kid is doing “well” enough in class, not help is provided.
@compmom This is the difference in philosophy I brought up at some point earlier in a response to Gloria. Generally, public schools are satisfied as long as kids are passing and don’t care about an individual’s potential. That’s my experience as a parent who had kids in public school and with family members in education, including special ed. Parents have to hire lawyers to get the help they need and not all parents can.
I was also saying this attitude extends to rehab possibilities for very serious brain injuries, which often include major impact on EF, among other deficits.
MAC, when my kid was 5 the school used that excuse. He was above average. He sat in the hall with an aide all day. Grrr. His teacher was very bold, she said he must be learning via osmosis bc I am teaching him nothing and by 3rd grade, his own intelligence won’t be enough.
Eventually the lack of support will pull them behind average…
@compmom I’m going to share your thoughts with my D who is a music therapist at a facility for neurological rehab. One reason why that field intrigues us because of the impact of music on people with TBI.
It’s very true that schools don’t care as long as the child is doing well enough. My son was 98 to 99% on all his IQ test sub scores, except for processing speed, which was just over 80. This translates to significant problems finishing tests in some of these classes, but if he can finish, he does really well. His guidance counselor’s recommendation was that perhaps he didn’t need to be in advanced classes. His neuropsychologist completely disagreed, as did I. They do not care about a child meeting his/her potential, just that they do enough to get by. Frustrating to say the least.
@GloriaVaughn a person with a hearing impairment is considered to have a disability which limits the major life or bodily function of hearing. This applies to both deaf and hard of hearing people, AND the determination of disability must be considered without mitigating measures - that is, you can’t say “but you COULD hear better if you had cochlear implants” or “but your hearing aid makes you un-disabled”.
Hearing Aids are not the same as hearing through a perfect auditory system. A hearing loss can occur at many levels, in the structures of the ear canals and middle ear, the cochlea, or the central nervous system. Hearing aids amplify ALL the sounds around them. The processing of sound is different for anoerson with hearing loss. So you may know about your particular disability, but you are wrong about hearing aids and hearing loss.
Also as a general note, IEP are often phased out in high school and replaced with 504 plans, because a 504 is a good outline of the accommodations to ask for in college or the workplace, where federal education law (ERISA, formerly IDEA) does not apply.
The neuro psychologist eval for my son was just under $400 in Buffalo, NY.
He is a junior in high school with executive functioning issues, adhd and just this year a diagnosis of a math learning disability. I’ve half considered hiring an executive assistant for him while he’s in college to take over the duties I’ve been doing for him while he’s in high school. I’ve jokingly told him he’s going to need to marry a very organized, type A wife who can do for him what I’ve been doing for him (and my husband for that matter) all these years.
Practically though, when we go on college visits, we spend a lot of time in the disabilities office interviewing the staff on accommodations, resources, etc. I ask a lot of questions about the school’s online presence. If the school has a strong online presence, there will be much that I can help with remotely…like by monitoring grades, emails, assignments. We don’t know where he’ll end up for college yet. I’d feel more comfortable with one within two hours from home which is an easy distance for him to come home or us to get to him for check ins.
I have written this before: I would not rely too much on the quality of a disabilities office to evaluate the fit for a kid with a disability. In our experience, you don’t really know how things work or how well things work until after first semester of freshman year. Often deans, doctors, counselors, and advisors are cogs in a less formal system for accommodation that is far more important than the O of D. Some would say the O of D exists to filter requests and be the “guard dog of the curriculum” against incursions by accommodation requests- no matter how nice the staff.
My kids chose schools based on factors everyone looks at- size, location, academics, “vibe” etc.- and then we advocated to make it work if that was needed. One of the best colleges we experienced didn’t even HAVE a disabilities office
Bob woodruff, the tv newscaster is an excellent example of what good rehab can do for TBI survivors. As for ADHD and EF. They can and often do coexist. EF involves the organization, planning , integration and execution of actions. Attentional skills are important for this to work efficiently.
There are different levels of support available at different schools. It’s so important to self advocate.
I agree with @compmom-- I think I once wrote that some administrators and Disabilities Service Offices are gatekeepers against incursions against accommodation request.
We did two things;
With one kid, we chose schools with no or few distribution requirements, so he didn’t have to take courses with 400 pages of reading per week; and
We negotiated with DSOs only after acceptance, only after the kid been admitted and ranked the school highly – we told them we couldn’t accept unless we knew what the accommodations would be. I would strongly advise this step. Even then, it required my son advocating afterwards at various points. But, the school he chose was fantastic with him.
Interestingly enough, an Ivy dropped from top-ranked school to number two because of the way they dealt with the request for clarity about what accommodations they would actually offer. I mentioned this later to a former client who I knew was an avid alumnus of the Ivy. He was not happy to hear that they’d lost a great prospect because of the way the DSO handled our request and it turned out he was a member of the Board of Trustees. With some luck, the word got through. But who knows… My son attended his 5th reunion from his alma mater. He was very happy as a student there. He’s finished grad school and has his second startup funded in the Bay Area, so who knows. Maybe the financial outcomes could be modestly interesting for the schools in question.
We dealt with an Ivy where the Disabilities Office and actually Freshman Dean were not helpful at all. But the following three years could not have been better, once my kid learned the system and the administrators, professors and administrators in the department got to know my child. We are eternally grateful for the understanding and, well, I would have to say, kindness, encountered at what many view as a cutthroat school. It really can be hard to tell in advance. I like Shawbridge’s idea of negotiating between admission and acceptance.
