<p>Whoa, whoa, whoa, Calmom - I am not talking about book awards and my son is anything but introverted. In fact, my son has been a leader in the school, has contributed a great deal, has given a great deal of volunteer time to many politically, academically and socially oriented school issues /clubs as well as to new programs such as Mentors in Violence. He is well liked, very dedicated to the school, has a lot of school spirit, and spent 4 to 5 hours a day on a sport as well. He has been an officer in several clubs, but maybe not those that put him in the typical limelight. I am not worried about his emotional or social IQ! He was actually voted by his class most likely to become president. In choosing awards, who among the teachers knew ALL the ways he contributed. Probably not ONE teacher. Who knew who did the yearbook or who cooked for teacher appreciation day - probably ALL the teachers I don't begrudge anyone an award. I just think it isn't done fairly and the fact that "this is life" is never an acceptable excuse to me when systems are broken. Do others deserve awards - absolutely. I am enough of a socialist to recommend eliminating them or finding something worthy for everyone. The awards go on, so they, in theory, have some meaning to somebody or something. Why have awards if they are not meaningful or if they are discredited by parents who think - well, that's just life. My son felt bad but he is over it. We have discussed the arbitrariness and his own contributions. He does have a lot of self-confidence but frankly I am embarassed for our school system that they continue with this ill defined process.</p>
<p>CalMom...just to clarify my position....I absolutely DO want kids in the lower tracked classes to get awards! I think they are very deserving for achieving within their own level classes. I do NOT want ONLY on the top students to get awards! But I don't think it need be either/or. The subject type awards at our school are just based on whichever teachers choose to give awards. It seems that many of the harder classes do not give out awards, thus making kids who take those classes ineligible for awards in a subject. Just like the kids who work hard in the lower level classes and who are high achievers within those easier classes can earn recognition, I think kids who have opted to take harder classes should have opportuntiies to be recognized within their classes. When I went to the academic award night when my oldest was in tenth grade and only one Honors class in tenth gave out an award (she happened to get it) but all the other Honors subjects did not opt to give awards and thus to a casual observer watching this ceremony, you might conclude that everyone who was recognized that night represented some of the best academic students in our school when actually just about ALL the best academic students were shut out. So, just like I would not want to shut out the kids in the easier track classes, I would not want to shut out all kids who take the more challenging classes and who are college bound no less. I think high achievers in any of these classes should be eligible for a subject award in their own class (again they were not given out by grade but by whichever teacher had an award to give and their award was for a kid in their specific class). I'd say of her four years there, only junior year was she eligible for awards because SOME awards given were overall, and not specific to a teacher (like the book award or the Bausch and Lomb award to top chem student award, etc). Otherwise, the ceremony mostly honored kids NOT at the top academically. I just think there is room to have awards for kids in each class, not just recognize those in the easiest classes. Heaven forbid you are a high academic achiever in that school. They like to downplay them. No, they do not NEED recognition but it just feels weird to go to an academic ceremony and close out the kids who take Honors classes. I don't want to close out the kids who are not in challenging classes but feel the same vice versa. </p>
<p>You also mention that the kids with high class rank should not need the validation of an academic award. No, they do not need it for validation. But to clarify, here rank is unweighted and so the kids in the easier classes are often ranked higher than the kids in the Honors classes, so again, the kids who took challenging courses, are kinda passed over there too. It is kinda just a trend that we've seen. It is not any one particular thing. Last year a teacher who was not even my older D's teacher put down to her face kids like her who were in the Honors/AP classes in a derogatory way, among other things. She was very anti kids in that category. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>soozievt - we are also unweighted, as I think I mentioned earlier - and which prompted some of my comments I agree that some teachers do not seem to like the honors/AP kids.</p>
<p>Soozie, my son also went to a high school that did not rank, so he wasn't even top 10% - though he took all the APs his school had to offer. I never attended any awards ceremony - I don't remember whether he was invited or whether we found out about the one award he got from any context other than seeing it printed on the program for graduation. </p>
<p>My kids are smart and all their friends and teachers know it. They have or will be going off to highly ranked colleges while many of the kids they went to school with are bound for CSU's, community colleges, or no college at all. </p>
<p>I'm sorry if some kids feel that their accomplishments aren't recognized - but your daughters have done amazing things. Surely, with your younger daughter's incredible talent in musical theater, she must get plenty of opportunity to have the starring role on stage - she must have taken curtain calls to rousing applause and standing ovations again and again. </p>
<p>We all like to see our kids get awards, but for every one kid who gets an award in any given school, there are dozens or hundreds who don't, depending on the size of the school. </p>
<p>I'm sorry, but my attitude has been to celebrate the victories with my kids and not to worry about the many times the spotlight has gone to someone else. </p>
<p>I also know that when a particular kid who already has received a lot of attention gets more awards, it tends to cause frustration and resentment among other kids -- one more reason to feel happy that my own kids are not always the center of attention.</p>
<p>The world is full of good, smart people functioning at the level where they never get any attention at all - these are the B+ and A- students, the kids who keep the athletic teams filled but never are the star players, the kids who sing in the chorus in the school musicals but never get the starring roles. They are kids who wanted to take AP courses but their school's system wouldn't let them because they didn't make the cut off grade. They are kids who show up to sit in the bleachers during school games and sit out in the cold to cheer for their team, and who show up in the school auditorium to applaud the band kids and the theater kids for a job well done. These kids work hard every day of their lives but they will never win an award for being the "top" anything or get a letter jacket in their school sport. They are perpetually good at what they do, but not quite good enough. </p>
<p>How do you think some of these kids and their parents feel? Not only do these kids get passed over for awards, but their parents can't even gripe with the sense of righteous indignation over the unfairness of it all. Are those kids less valuable as human beings? Are the hours they spend at night studying to maintain their 91 averages less well spent? </p>
<p>So as much as it makes me feel good to have my kid being the one up on stage ... I don't feel that is an entitlement, even in areas where my kids have really excelled. Awards just aren't that important in the greater scheme of things, and I feel that too much focus on them ends up conveying the wrong set of values. I actually am much more comfortable with group awards or celebrations, such as when everyone on a team is taken out to a celebration dinner.</p>
<p>Very true, Calmom... and at some point, you have to learn to be happy with yourself for what you accomplish and who you are and not always need outside accolades to validate yourself. You're not always going to be "top" or get what you want; that's a fact of life. It's best not to get too wound up over these things, disappointed as you might be.</p>
<p>Two quick notes on my way out - "deserve" seems to me to be subjective. If we agree the process is subjective, I guess we're reduced to have calling it a life lesson (in other words, something crazy/quirky which defies rational explanation - but wait, there'll be more of these to come). And it's administered (at least in our system) by some very parochial thinkers. I guess that does explain it all.</p>
<p>Callmom, you have misunderstood me. We are not griping. We are not upset. My kids do not need any awards for validation. It is not a problem. I was only discussing how it is done here and relating to other posts about certain aspects of awards. My kids are not upset, nor are we. I merely was commenting on how they do it at our school and attitudes that seem like a trend at the school. As mentioned, a teacher went out of her way to tell my older D what she thought of kids like her who take the AP or Honors courses. It wasn't pretty. </p>
<p>My kids don't need the awards, nope. They can have opinions about what they see going on, however. And I do agree with you about kids who are rarely "noticed" who are GREAT kids as well. My kids are not looking for awards to validate themselves because honestly they tend to have positive self esteem and are quite content. We relish in accomplishments and achievements and as I have mentioned before, many of these do not have awards attached to them. If my kid organized a big event to promote peace and held it in our town, we feel she achieved. I feel my older one achieved something two days ago, she completed a 6000 mile drive at age 18. Yesterday, I felt my younger one achieved something, kinda like a triumph, because she took two dance classes for the first time after being severely injured (including a fractured pelvis) less than three months ago and we never dreamed this would be possible so soon. Moments like that need no award for me. I mostly was just entering into the discussion of the various topics that have come up here and the ways it is done at our school. Our school tends to have a prevailing "tone" often of downplaying anyone who has achieved highly. </p>
<p>Perhaps later, if I have time, I will relate an incident last week with my younger child where this was the case (and it does not have to do with giving an award). I thought it was pretty bad. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>CALMOM said:"I'm not saying that the introverted math genius who can't manage to utter two words in class is stupid -- but I am saying that maybe the kid in calculus who actually showed up to class, had to work a little harder for an A but also took the time to ask questions in class when she was confused and, once she got a concept offered to help other kids who still needed help - really did deserve the math award more. </p>
<p>This is excatly what happened at my Son's high school. May I elaborate? Let's say that you are a teacher seeking enjoyment from your career,acknowledgement from society that you made a good choice in being a teacher. Which student would you help out more? The probability is high that the student that acknowledged your existence will be rewarded. Add that to the meeting in the faculty lounge whereby every teacher says "well Annie is a star,how can we not reward her model behavior at this school?" other teachers agree and thus it is unanimous.</p>
<p>RILEY DOG ASKED: "songman - do you believe the guidance counselor could be biased in his/her recommendation if he/she has a positive relationship with the student (cheerful, cooperative, not the kind who takes a different point of view), lots of "face" time with one student versus another, or knows the parents from temple, church, PTA, etc, if applying to the same school?"</p>
<p>The probabaility is high, however I can only comment on my son and his friends. I try to be as honest as possible concerning my kids talents and skill. While they posess many talents and will find a place in life where they can grow,mature and serve in society,based on actual experience and track record ,none of my son's friends and my son deserved to receive an award compared to the kids that did. The kids at my S's high school LOVED high school. Worked very hard at making the school a better place than when they entered in freshman year. If they did it with politics and "in your face" techniques well,while it is sad to admit, most of society operates on the same social model. And while it tough to have a child that is capable of being in the top 10% but through either hard wiring,societal influences,or poor parenting they do not reach their potential,they will find their way somehow. I have chalked it up to the old Buddhist saying" We enter life as a block of wood, and life carves you" I looked in the mirror back at myself and at my kids and realized that for now life has carved two very talented, bright kids who have to find their way. Their way is not to be the shining star at school and strive for the book awards. It is either a lack of maturity or will/motivation on their part ,but that is their style. Funny I was the "behind the scene" type of kid also that the teachers would ask" Why didn't you speak to me sooner, or I did not know that you have the talent for music, etc" I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree huh?</p>
<p>However , I am a firm believer in the expression from a famous song "There's a place for us" </p>
<p>We just have to find it!</p>
<p>calmom said: "I'm sorry, but my attitude has been to celebrate the victories with my kids and not to worry about the many times the spotlight has gone to someone else."</p>
<p>I think this is an excellent, excellent attitude that we should all strive to achieve.</p>
<p>What often happens, though, is that the one who recieves the awards may not be deserving, it happens quite a bit,,,</p>
<p>I get tired of hearing, well, life isn't fair...why CAN't it be fair..why can't the rules be laid out a little clearer in schools...why can't there be a way to ask questions without being judged a whiner</p>
<p>If we all just let things go and slide, then often those underserving will often get the awards because they are louder, pushier, and have connections. We have seen it.</p>
<p>The attitutude, of oh well, gets really old. Why should we teach our kids to accept what is not fair? Maybe we can't fix or change everything, but we CAN teach our kids that it is up to those that have been dissed to try and change the system or make sure any systems they work in or create is fair. We can't wallow in the unfairness of things, but we can see that it is unfair, say hey, that is not right, and I am going to make sure in MY life, I will be fair. </p>
<p>We don't need to accept what is wrong. Why should we? Why can't people be mad? What is wrong with that? </p>
<p>It is what one does with that frustration and anger is what is important. Channeling that energy into something good and productive is very pwerful</p>
<p>Here's the best idea yet: My sons' school gives out its awards with NO parents present. Since it is all boys, we rarely (if ever) even hear about the awards. Sometimes I'll find one kicking around one of their rooms or stuffed in a backpack.</p>
<p>BTW - Sons' school does not rank or have val.</p>
<p>citygirlsmom - I thnk you are getting closest to what I am trying to say. We have experienced favoritism for "townies" in our small town in many, many ways - we are not townies - it is blatant and I have long since gotten over the shock of it. That doesn't mean that I don't find others deserving of awards or these issues aren't "life lessons". BUT, basically, it should not be happening in the first place and all of us shoiuld strive to keep standards of parity and justice in focus and certainly should expect our models of society, our public school systems to do the same. I can't believe the amount of feedback that says well, who cares, my kid has his own self-confidence. Is that the point of this?</p>
<p>citygirlsmom: I agree, I know "life's not fair" but why can't we all try to make it more fair? Also, educators ought to be mature and above these kinds of little games, but working in a high school setting seems to entrench staff with high school attitiudes- I have worked within a former school and the politics amongst the staff is every bit as cliquish as the junior high girls!</p>
<p>Why can't mature, educated adults see through the "Eddie Haskell's" of the school? Wouldn't you like to think you've seen enough of life to realise when some one is playing you and being that phony? Apparently not!</p>
<p>Rileydog, I would be more inclined to be sympathetic if this were the type of forum where we could get the other side of the story: what the teachers were thinking, what the other families felt. My own experience is that usually when one kid is picked over another, the only one ever saying "unfair" or complaining of favoritism is the parent of the kid who was passed over. My kid has been involved in performing arts since early childhood, so I am very used to the whole scene of trophies and awards and auditions and role-selection. Teachers do seem to have their favorites, but the favorites usually are quite talented and generally come within the realm of "deserving" even though it might not be the child I would have picked or voted for. It is very rare that the lines are so clear as to which kid deserves the recognition over another.</p>
<p>RileyDog....I do agree with you that while we can encourage kids to take things in stride to some degree, if there is some injustice or something they or others feel strong about, take action to effect change. I think you may be a newer poster here but I have shared in the past that my own kid put tons of energy into creating change in her school over issues she felt strongly about and to which she did not stand to gain as they would not take effect until after she had graduated. But one issue she worked on and initiated and led relates to this a little because she felt that the grades in our school should be weighted, particularly for the purpose of class rank with a rationale to encourage kids to challenge themselves to taking harder classes and for rewarding them for doing so insofar as not making it harder for them to have a decent rank (the way it is in our school with unweighted rank). Now, you can agree or disagree with her stance on that topic but that is not the point. She researched policies around the country as well as in our own state. She wrote up a policy for the school, presented it to faculty and administrators and eventually to the school board who passed her policy to take effect starting with the class of '06. This was a two year drawn out process in which she met with roadblocks such as a principal saying "it will never fly" and certain faculty members who are very very anti the academically strong students in the Honors track. But it did fly and she feels like she has made a difference for the kids who will come later who opted to take challenging courses. She again took action and spearheaded a committee of two to create a homework policy for the school (again doing extensive research around the country) and again, developing and presenting a policy that touched on some issues that she really cared about and did not like the present situation in the school. She did this as a student senator though was not elected to any office...in fact, this is an example of achievement with no offical leadership TITLE or official award...yet was discussed on her resume, on one particular college essay for ONE college and was mentioned by every teacher and GC rec writer as well...as someone who took a stance and took action to effect change in the school, rather than just be elected as a senator in name only. One year she was not even elected and still served anyway because her initiative was not yet accomplished. So, I do believe that while I don't let my kids have sour grapes (my younger one was nonchalant when we drove by the school the other night and there were all the cars at award night and she was not invited) because their identity and self esteem is not wrapped up in awards or recognition. Yet, if they see something unfair or that is not right to them for some reason, they DO speak up and sometimes even take action. I'd say they like to hold their own. Sometimes this can make a kid disliked by teachers if they are not always "agreeable". That is sometimes the case with my younger D who is willing to speak up and challenge an adult (actually I think this is a good quality that were serve her well in life, particularly as a woman, but sometimes drives me nuts in the parent/child relationship!). My older child, while she is truly someone who is extremely easygoing and cooperative and well liked by every teacher with such a demeanor, also, however, is quite willing to take action when she feels something is "wrong". She has done so in various ways...one was the example of creating policies for the school and seeing that process through...another has been speaking to the state department of education who was investigating some things at our school....another was speaking up at a school board meeting to defend her guidance counselor along with 200 community members (that's alot in a small community) and was quoted in the newspapers and on TV for it and was willing to take a stance publicly because she felt so strongly. So, while she may come across as mild mannered and not as loud as her younger sister, believe me, she spoke so strongly and effectively in front of the whole community and TV cameras because she was strong with her convictions. So, ya know, while I did say in above posts that my kids don't need awards to feel good about themselves and or to feel validated, I did not mean to always just meekly accept things cause this is the "way it is". We do that sometimes because we see trends at school that are hard to change the climate about, but for some issues, they have certainly taken a "stance". </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>calmom - going back to the early pages - my concern is that the awards go to the same kids when many could be recognized. I would not have minded much if my very deserving neighbor received one award among the 10 or 12 received by just one student. The student who received all the awards is going to Harvard (as did/does her two sisters and one of her parents). She is a lovely girl, very active, and very bright. She received so many awards it was painful to see her get up again and again, along with a couple of other students similarily recognized. I can't imagine defining the line between her amount of school spirit or volunteering and at least 20 students sitting there in the audience thinking that they have done at least as much. This isn't about sour grapes for MY son. We have had two boys in sports since they were each 3. My older boy played on several good teams, including all-star teams. One year, the coach did not take him on the summer all-star team because he had to put the other coach's son on (even though the kid hated baseball and never showed up for practice) and the strategy was to use a small number of players to prevent having to "play everyone". Of course, he was not the star pitcher and he played the same position as the coach's son, at that time, second base, shortstop. He and I were told this with great apologies from the first coach and he was only 10! Is this life, yes it is, but is it fair, no it isn't. Should it happen - definitely not, and I don't care how many hours the coach put in! We are quite famililar with life but that doesn't mean we shouldn't find a better way.</p>
<p>Now that we're on the subject of changing things that are wrong....instead of focusing on the awards and weighted class rank vs. not, which is really just a superficial symptom of the problem, why not get riled up about the real problem... the anti-intellectual bias that permeates our public school systems and the education industry?</p>
<p>Why must students in the Ed departments of most colleges and universities have the lowest average SAT scores? (Great analysis in the Wall Street Journal recently about that... complete with documentation). Why do most GC's steer most kids towards State U? ("well, I went there, and the principal went there, and the superintendent went there, so what's wrong with you that your kid has to go out of state?") Why do G&T programs go begging for staff while the "special Ed lobby" takes over our schools? I have nothing against the education of special ed kids, by the way... but the special interest groups, lawyers, etc. have taken this on as a major cash cow... and the money comes out of instruction to fuel the lawsuits and the ridiculous accomodations.... </p>
<p>There's a kid in my town who gets taxi service to and from school; parents claim he has a social disorder so he can't share a seat on a school bus. Meanwhile he's in cub scouts and a soccer team.... but our tax- payers have an obligation to save his parents the 20 minutes a day it would take to drive him to school, since in our state, he's entitled to transportation. A savvy lawyer got his parents to sue to get his disability "accomodated". Yikes. Where does the money come from? I don't know... maybe out of the AP Physics budget, since we don't have higher level physics in HS.</p>
<p>How about saving your outrage over some trivial book award and focus on the anti-educational bias of the leaders of most of the teachers unions????</p>
<p>Well, you know, blossom, I suppose my outrage is a symptom of my distress with the entire system. We are presently in the situation of having to vote an override to keep teachers, AP courses, sports, drama,etc. Everyone thinks it is a scare but each year we have less and less money and the buildings are put on hold and hold and hold and are presently leaking, falling in on students and overcrowded. Special ed is a growing budget and it is funded by the town so not only is there a conflict between special ed parents/students and regular students but also with parents AND the elderly, but clearly nobody is getting what they need (special ed included). I have seen schools insist that they can educate severely disordered students in the mainstream setting to save the $120k tuition at the special school and I have seen parents hire a lawyer and secure expensive individualized attention that is of questionable need. OTOH, the new IDEA and 504 laws/interpretations are much looser and I have also seen kids who should be getting help eliminated from help because they are making "effective progress" defined as not failing (and who would fail them if it will mean more work and cost the town more money?). I have seen AP courses eliminated each year to put a teacher in the growing younger classes. Our middle school was built in l892 and sits on top of a hill with NO fields or even grass for the kids to stand on. We do not have a regulation track or a baseball field that is not underwater 90% of the year. We do not have labs or current books, etc. And, we do not have gifted and talented programs in our town because "everyone is gifted". But, honestly, what bugs me most is the teacher's unions and the teachers lack of accountability. Teachers have a hard job but so do many service oriented professionals. I am tired of hearing the whine. I work in a hospital and there are so many checks and balances and levels of accountability that I laugh when I think of teaching. You can complain to the principal but he/she has not authority over the teacher. You can complain to the school committee but they have no authority over the teacher. You can complain that the teacher isn't available but the union states that he/she only has to stay one day until 2:45, and you can complain that the teachers are out all the time, that they show movies all the time, that your kid has subs all the time but they will tell you that the curriculum only requires that they teach one explorer, not all of them, and that they are entitled to sick days, continuing ed days, etc., etc. I have much more to say but have to give over the computer. Is that better?</p>
<p>Thank you Riley, I feel better. Some times I read these boards and people who so clearly care about education and learning start ranting about such inane stuff that it makes me question their priorities. The lack of recognition of academic achievement reflects the value that our society places on intellectual development... pretty minimal. The amount of time our schools spend worried about winning football teams and proms and "honor rolls" where anyone with perfect attendance gets recognized reflects a society that values athletes, supermodels, and the people who "just show up".</p>
<p>Agree with you 100% on the unions and accountability. Dig up the piece in the Wall Street Journal if you can-- eye-opening analysis of why the unions opted for more teachers (more members mean more dues, more revenue, higher salaries for the union brass,more lobbying clout in Washington) rather than higher paid, better trained, more professional teachers. </p>
<p>I don't think the analysis compared medical workers to teachers but that would be an instructive comparison.</p>
<p>Sounds to me like all of your kids are pretty darned accomplished - and while it may hurt not to get the public recognition, there's a lesson to be learned in terms of doing well just for the sake of personal satisfaction. In life, as we all know, nobody is standing by the door handing out awards for doing a report, making a presentation, cleaning the toilet... Your kids will survive, and maybe even thrive in the college environment where the As are not so easy - and nobody really cares if you won the blah blah award in h.s.</p>