<p>3.9 at an Ivy, 167 LSAT, great EC's.</p>
<p>Any chance at a T14?</p>
<p>How great?</p>
<p>based on numbers you definitely have a chance</p>
<p>Aaah- the dreaded 167
morris- we’re in same boat ( our kids are from same ivy and program too ((I Think)- but my d’s gpa is a bit lower and she’ll have 2 years work experience.<br>
I think my kids chance is MAYBE but I’m pushing her to get Cornell app in for EA consideration and to be willing to apply FT/PT to Georgetown EA. (Applications submitted by 11/1)</p>
<p>Somehow, I want to be a bit more hopeful. I think it’s extremely important to get those applications in early- spend the time to develop a well crafted application package-hope for the best and cast a wider net towards T-25 schools too. </p>
<p>Is your d applying directly from college or is she planning to have some work experience??
Would she be willing to apply ED to Mich, UVA Penn, or Duke. Looks like Duke is going to have regular ED this year. I think an ED application to one of those 4 schools may be succesful with a 167/3.9 from an Ivy.
D just informed me- No ED application for her. But personally, I think your d may be successful if she applied ED to one of those schools.
The most important thing I’m doing now is trying to impress on my kid the NECESSITY to get her applications in early!!
Good Luck!</p>
<p>You parents are nuts, are your children still incapable of doing things for themselves?</p>
<p>vincere- why do you think I’m here? My kid doesn’t listen to a word I say(well she is beginning to listen a bit more). She also steers clear from any of these websites. </p>
<p>But too many of the young ones learn a little bit too late – because they don’t get into the schools they want to and they need to re-apply a year later. </p>
<p>So the important info I passed along to my own kid-</p>
<p>1.ya gotta get those applications in early.
2. ya gotta do a well crafted application package including PS, resume etc. It’s not just banging info together. And a good application package can took a few months to get together.
3. ya gotta research the schools and be willing to write the additional optional essays.</p>
<p>Now kids who obsess on TLS, LSD etc may know the “tricks of the trade”, but for many LS applicants, they think it’s perfectly ok to slap together an application between their semester break in Dec/January and send in applications by 1/15. Those are the kids that find themselves re-applying a year later, unless they were lucky enough to have an LSAT of 173.</p>
<p>Vincere- you’re new here and you are using this website to find out info. You may also use the other sites like TLS when you get ready to apply for law school too.
But honestly, I’m glad my kid doesn’t spend too much time on these boards (though she has been getting good info on TLS about doing Personal statement and resumes etc) and my role as mom is to pass along “Need to Know info” to her that I have come across on the other websites. </p>
<p>And if you don’t like the info we’re passing along to you- then don’t take it. I often write in a manner to pass along info to other law school applicants, NOT just my own kid.</p>
<p>vincere–you have no idea what you are talking about. Just because I ask a question does not mean I am doing anything for my daughter. She does not even know I asked the question because she does not live at home this summer. She is a summer analyst at a top I-bank in NYC putting in 65-70 hours a week. I did not get her this job.</p>
<p>She also has been accepted as an intern at the ILO (The International Labour Organization) in Geneva, Switzerland this fall. I did not do a thing to help her get that either. </p>
<p>So asking a question implies nothing.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input marny. She is not sure what she is going to do. If she gets an offer from the bank, that will add another thing to consider.</p>
<p>the work experience is definitely a factor to be considered and in the long run will probably give your d invaluable experience that will make it well worth her while to delay law school for a few years.
My kid is in a similar situation. She’s a business Rep for a union and is planning to stay in the area of employment law (at least as of now). Problem is she is beginning to like her job a bit too much- but if she doesn’t apply to LS this cycle, she may have to take LSAT again as she took it during her junior year.
so it looks like she will apply this cycle, as she really doesn’t want to take test again.</p>
<p>morris-
no guarantees, but having a 3.9 from an Ivy and having a good application package should get her into some T-14’s. </p>
<p>after being on TLS/LSD sites for an admission cycle or 2, I’m realizing that law school admission is a bit of a game. Seems like schools want to keep their stats up, so they can look good for USNWR ranking. So a 3.9, especially from an Ivy can help a school bump up their median gpa stats.</p>
<p>I remember last year a grad with a 166 /3.9 from an Ivy got off the Harvard waitlist. Until that point, she was planning to go to Cornell. The common belief was, Harvard wanted higher gpa candidates in order to bump up its stats. So she got off the waitlist despite her 166/lsat.
so I think your kid will do fine as her 3.9 is considered golden- but she could have a long cycle and there could be unexpected acceptances off waitlists.</p>
<p>Though I do think law school admissions can be a bit of a game, you still gotta have certain basic stats to be considered- but once you pass that threshold-- you have to market yourself with a good application package; realize kids unexpectedly get off waitlists; and hope for the best. This observation may be more true for kids with lsat’s in the 166-170 range as their T-14 admission outcome may rely more heavily on the entire admission package including personal statement, quality of LOR’s, decent gpa etc. </p>
<p>All I could do is share my observations with my own kid- The 2 things I am stressing to her is for her to get the applications in early, and to put alot of effort into the entire application package including resume, as well as the personal statement/optional essays etc. It is a bit more than lsat/gpa stats especially if you lsat is in the 166/170 range. It’s also how you portray yourself to the admission committee. </p>
<p>I think our kids should come across ok in that regard, as they were given incredible opportunities during their UG experience and for my own kid- she has very solid work experience in a law related area.
But she’ll be applying to T-25 schools too just in case!!</p>
<p>I was in a very similar situation a few years ago…and I imagine it’s significantly more competitive now with people “sheltering” from the economy by going to law school. Tips:</p>
<ul>
<li>apply early–have your application complete within a month of the application form being released.</li>
<li>apply to a lot of schools–anywhere in the Top 14 you’d attend if you got in.</li>
<li>do ED everywhere possible (check on the regulations …for example, if you get in ED to Michigan and accept the offer you have to start at the end of May; if you apply to GW early and get in you have to go…but you get a full-tuition scholarship)</li>
<li>make sure your essays and recommendations are perfect–if you’re on the borderline, this could make a difference</li>
<li>be prepared for waitlists</li>
<li>either have some safeties (ranked between 14 and 50, in places you’d like to live) or a plan B for what you’re doing next year in case you don’t get in anywhere.</li>
<li>look into part-time programs…Georgetown’s makes it easy to transfer to the full-time program after a year, and GW has one too.</li>
</ul>
<p>good luck! I think if you apply to most of the T14 you’ll probably get in somewhere.</p>
<p>Stacy-- where did you end up?</p>
<p>Marny – I would love to know where your d ends up.</p>
<p>Thanks for your input-- I will pass it along.</p>
<p>My d has been through a very rough (personally) summer but is enjoying her analyst position in trading at JPM. She has wanted to be a lawyer since 3rd or 4th grade. Her 167 was devastating because she was averaging a 172 in her real time, real test practacaces.</p>
<p>If she gets an offer for a job (was already told she would if her “desk” gets a position). she will probably put off law school for a year or two.</p>
<p>If so, should she re-take the LSAT? She thinks so.</p>
<p>morris
If she thinks a re-take is in order- then that is probably gonna be the case. As your kid was averaging 172 under “real test” conditions and she is willing to go through the test again, it’s probably worth a shot. But she needs to be aware that some kids just freeze when they take the exam and it is not unusual to score a few points below their average score.</p>
<p>My kid was relieved and content with her 167. That was about her average, and she was thrilled she didn’t score below it. She is much more relunctant about a re-take.
Good thing is- I think she’d be totally content with georgetown p/t and maybe a few
T-20’s with $ than to subject herself to the test again. In this economy and lawyers being layed off, a T-20 with money is looking better and better to me. She also has alot of friends in the dc area, visited gerogetown law and truly liked it, and would be thrilled with a georgetown acceptance.
If things don’t work out for her, she’d probably do a retake next spring and re-apply for the following cycle. As I said earlier, she really likes her job, so to stay an extra year is not much of a sacrifice.</p>
<p>I’ve always thought the LSAT score is good for 5 years, but their has been some chatter on these boards that some schools like a more current score after three years. (Though I have not seen any specific school mentioned).<br>
so if your d still has 1 year UG and may work for 2 years, she may need to stay aware of the “timing” aspects as to when she should retake the lsat exam.
I think that may be prompting my kid to apply this cycle as she is getting close to the 3 year mark. She took the test early in her junior year so it would not interfere with her study abroad semester. I’ll assume your daughter doesn’t want the lsat or law school applications to interfere with her study abroad opportunity at the ILO.<br>
Wow!! she is going to have a fantastic opportunity.
Best wishes to her.<br>
I’ll keep you posted on my kids “journey”. May be through PM- as even I have limits to what I post on these boards.</p>
<p>I don’t care if you actually do stuff for your kid or not, the fact that you are on here asking questions without her knowing is even creepier IMO.</p>
<p>He/She has graduated college, apparently with great success, I’m sure he/she is fine on his/her own. </p>
<p>As parents you are supposed to raise your kids well to prepare them for independence, now that they’ve reached step out. Don’t you have your own lives to live?</p>
<p>Morismm, by the way you rattled off her achievements I sense the possibility that her success has become your own obsession, this is frightening. It is a bit pathetic to be ■■■■■■■■ College Confidential to help steer the career, future of your child who is in her mid twenties I assume. I realize this is tough to hear but those third grade parent meetings where you sat in the front row and were the only one asking questions are over, it’s time to move along.</p>
<p>Hi Vince,</p>
<p>Whether or not you would like to think so, your parents are still involved (especially financially) in the law/med school process. </p>
<p>While the student will only be considered independent for FAFSA purposes they are not considered independent in the FA process at most law/med schools. These schools will use the income/assets of the parents when doling out financial aid for law school.</p>
<p>I understand that there are plenty of law students who will have to foot the entire bill themselves, but for parents who are willing to either foot the cost of help to underwrite to cost of their child going to law school. With the cost of 3 years of law school hovering around $200k and schools looking at parents to shell out a portion of it (not counting in apartment deposits, purchase furniture, paying app fees, seat deposits, purchasing plane tickets for visits which also add a couple of thousand to the equation), I don’t begrude any parent doing their due diligence and becoming informed when it comes to seeing where their money is going.</p>
<p>vince- i think you protest a bit too much-
you want me to believe that no law school applicants are taking advantage of
1. law school admission couselors??
2. private companies that will “edit” a personal statement, resume etc??
3. advisors that will “handhold” you through the process and tell you where to apply?
4. and some elite UG schools that really seem to give alot of assistance and guidance to its grads regarding the application process?? </p>
<pre><code> In many instances there are parents paying alot of money to law school admission counselors to help get their kid an acceptance into law school. So instead- i try to gather good info and pass it along to my kid. It’s up to her what she chooses to do with the info.
</code></pre>
<p>And I’m sure some of your buddies at HYPS(??) have taken or will use the services of private admission couselors to guide them through the process. I’m cheap- we’re a do it yourself family so no private counselors for d. </p>
<p>Maybe you have the luxury of spending a year working on your personal statement and applications, but most people don’t. So if we can level the playing field for our own kids-and provide them with the most vital of information I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. And the only way to get that info, is to ask questions.
As I have said- I try to write in a manner and share the info I have gathered with law school applicants. And I always share it with other parents. </p>
<p>There really is another world out there- kids who don’t go on these websites and stress over the admission process. But sometimes it really does take a bit more than lsat/gpa. So if some of the parents seem a bit more “obsessive” about the process, it may be because we’re compensating for our kids who may be a little too laid back about the process. And I thank g-d my kid falls into that category.</p>
<p>Life’s not fair!! Get used to it.</p>
<p>I have to admit that neither I nor any of my law school classmates with whom I was close friends had much, if any, parental involvement in the law school application process. Even today, when I counsel undergrads about law school, though I am certain that some of the students with whom I work talk to their parents about the process, I don’t know of any who have parents doing the legwork for them. In fact, I would be concerned if any of my advisees did tell me that their parents were doing research for them about anything other than financial aid matters (since, in some cases, this does directly affect parents who may be helping out financially). </p>
<p>Just my two cents . . .</p>
<p>Marny, did you ever consider the possibility that your kid is too laid back about everything because you’ve been his or her crutch for 22+ years??</p>
<p>And even if this is not the case, maybe your child would be better suited to whatever he or she falls into organically instead of what you’re driving them into</p>
<p>I’ll admit- I probably spend too much time on TLS and LSD. It’s probably to compensate for the lack of time my kid goes to those websites. As a long time poster to college confidential, I thought it would be helpful to pass along some of the info that I picked up from TLS/LSD. I do find that the posters on TLS have a bit more insight into the admission process as they are currently going through it. </p>
<p>Now-the most useful information that I gathered is usually written after the admission cycle is over when people start discussing “what they would do differently”.<br>
The areas that they wish they could do over is the timing of the application, writing the optional essays, and spending a bit more time on the application.</p>
<p>so it’s such a terrible thing to share that info with my kid?? Give me a break.</p>
<p>and vincere- I’m not quite following your train of thought. Laid back people aren’t suited to be attorneys ?? or laid back personalities are caused by overinvolved parents ?? Don’t bothering answering. You seem to want to make a point just for the sake of it-</p>
<p>I don’t see anything wrong with parents being on these boards. Helicopter parenting (as vince seems to be imputing) would necessarily entail more than simply conducting research on law school admissions or posting on a board. These boards are a bit of a time waster (kind of like wikipedia-useful, but not very productive), so I wouldn’t really read too much into this. You’re making a host of assumptions based on essentially nothing: the presence of a parent on a board.</p>
<p>If my parents offered to help and I thought it would be useful, I’d probably let them. No one in my family has gone to college, so it wouldn’t be very worthwhile to drag them into the complexities of admission. (I remember thinking UG admissions was all about SAT scores and GPA. Afterwards I discovered just how lucky I was to get in, given my pedestrian ECs, recs, and essays)</p>
<p>My parents found out I was thinking seriously about law school about ten months after I started writing essays and researching schools. I haven’t lived at home in years (three at last count) and I pay my own bills, so I’m pretty much the definition of an independent.</p>
<p>Also, off the point, there’s nothing wrong with being laid back (though it is obviously possible to go too far). Getting too caught up in things is a good way to burn out and lose perspective. Read the second chapter of Zhuangzi and we can talk about the efficacious sage. Peace.</p>
<p>marny1- I remember getting your help when I first got into Cornell! I think you had mentioned your D was an ILR major, correct?</p>
<p>Hope things turn out well for her. Keep us posted!</p>