Help! I'm at my wits' end with 13-year-old S

Parents Forum
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<p>It's 3 a.m. and I have insomnia for the first time since my older S, now 13, was born. Since I've had children I've been too tired to lie awake at night, but here I am up at my computer, asking for help from the best source of parenting advice I know. </p>

<p>My older S is in 8th grade in a "good" public school. I put "good" in quotation marks because while the school system looks great on the surface, I've come to believe after much agonizing that he does not belong there. I don't want him to continue in our system (and I want to take our younger son, now in 3rd grade, out as early as financially possible). </p>

<p>My S is very bright (scores in the upper reaches of the 99th percentile on standardized tests, both verbal and math) and has always been intensely interested in math and science, as well as many other areas (history, politics, social justice, languages, robotics, old movies, etc.) He is also extremely disorganized, and this has been a problem in school. In our district, the teachers select comments for the report cards from a menu, and the ones I have seen most frequently over the past few years are, "grade affected by missing work" and "a pleasure to have in class". By 6th grade he had pulled himself together enough to be on the honor roll or high honor roll every quarter. He has been accelerated in both math and science, and is now in 9th grade biology and 10th grade math. He has no problem with the content - in fact, he has felt for years that the pace was too slow in his accelerated math classes, and he asked last year to be excused from math class this year, proposing that he do math through EPGY. This request was initially agreed to by the principal, almost as a matter of course, but later denied because of objections from the teachers' union rep (!) </p>

<p>Last year was a terrible year, and after a few weeks of school it was clear that my son was miserable. There were several problem teachers, and he did not have a good mix of kids in his classes (very small district, and some scheduling problems because of his accelerated courses). He was quite articulate about what was wrong at school, essentially a lack of intellectual stimulation. Almost a year ago, he asked me to find out what he needed to do in the next 6 years to make sure he was admitted to MIT. He was quite serious and intent about it. When I asked him, he admitted that he saw his life as a dark tunnel with MIT as the light at the end. (Now that I've spent some time on CC, I know the score about college admissions, and my S understands and accepts the situation.) I immediately started the independent school application process, but later abandoned it after his first quarter grades came out - they had dived, and I felt sure he wouldn't be admitted anywhere.</p>

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<p>I could tell many stories about things that happened at school last year that would appall all of you. By the end of the year, I had given up on the system, and after my S went to CTY and was completely happy there, I was determined to send him to a good independent day school. My S still moans about how he misses CTY, and how he wishes they offered a school (in our area; he doesn't want to live away from home for more than 3 weeks!) He is not sure that he wants to do the commute that would be necessary for most of the schools, but he has agreed to apply and make a decision next spring, assuming he has some other options.</p>

<p>Now the problem: my S, who is well aware that he has no hope of being admitted to a private school unless he gets good grades this year, is already in trouble academically. This year is very different from last year - he has great teachers in several subjects and good teachers in the others, and he is back with a nice group of kids. He is confident that he will do well, but I have already heard from several teachers that he is missing assignments. He has lost the textbooks for all of his classes but one, he never knows what the assignments are and if he does he's missing the materials, today he even missed his first class because he had the days mixed up. I just heard from his math teacher that he got an 86% on his first exam, all because of sloppy mistakes or neglected parts of problems. </p>

<p>I'm starting to worry that he is an underachiever. I can't imagine that he will be admitted to any independent school, and if he were I don't know how he would manage. He does not have ADD or any other disorder - the reason he loses and forgets things is that he is always thinking about something. He's sweet and enthusiastic and intellectually active, but somehow this doesn't turn into accomplishments. And now that the independent school application time is here, and college is looming a few years away, I'm worried about how he looks on paper.</p>

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<p>There is now also an element of resisting me. I leave him alone for a while after school, and then start mentioning homework, and finally end up nagging him. I told him tonight how concerned I was about the situation, and he said that I was always complaining, and that I didn't appreciate the fact that he had given up computer games and was spending his time in better ways. (We took the video games away from the kids for all last year, let them have them for a month in the summer, then took them away again; we took away the computer a couple of weeks ago because the kids were spending too much time on it; neither of them has even asked for it back, and I love the things that they're doing now.)</p>

<p>This afternoon my older S spent an hour trying to pick locks with various implements, having been inspired by the video of the Princeton computer scientists demonstrating how easy it is to hack a certain electronic voting machine. He is also spending a lot of time these days putting together a model train layout, building bridges, making scenery, etc. Part of me thinks that this is exactly how a 13-year-old should be spending his time, but the other part wants him to shape up. They shouldn't be mutually exclusive.</p>

<p>My son's best friend moved to TX last summer, and his other best friend is almost certainly moving to NYC next summer (this boy is taking the test for the NYC exam schools). His other best friend is now in a private school and applying to others for HS. A number of other kids in his grade will leave after this year for private HS (17 out of a class of 100 left this year). I'm afraid that he'll be stuck next spring with many other kids leaving and no options.</p>

<p>I'm also facing three critical work deadlines this fall, so even if my S were doing what he should the independent school application process would be difficult. As it is, I'm completely overwhelmed with trying to figure out how to motivate my S while I deal with everything else. </p>

<p>I'll be grateful for any suggestions!</p>

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<p>Excuse the typos - I'm absolutely exhausted. I did want to mention that I think that spending a day at one of the private schools would inspire my S to do whatever it takes to get himself there. But I think this is offered only to accepted students in the spring. There are admissions open houses, but jsut seeing the campuses and hearing speeches won't have the same effect.</p>

<p>I should also mention that according to his teachers my S is participating enthusiastically in class discussions and focusing intently on lectures.</p>

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<p>So I hope you're finally getting some sleep. This isn't an emergency. I live at the other end of the country and I don't know a thing about your local independent schools, so I'm really no help. I do, however, have a very bright and very disorganized 14-year-old. He was in a private day school K-6th grade and was annoyed by the slow pace. Then he was in a public charter for 7th & 8th, where he was able to get away with doing practically nothing (aside from socializing with the girls in his class). Sending him to the huge underachieving public HS wasn't acceptable, but there was no way he'd be accepted to our elite privates. Instead, he's at a working ranch boarding school -- faculty a mix of smart old hippies and young ivy idealists, farm animals, tractors, lots of environmental outdoor education. Son misses his online videogames, but is adapting. Academic expectations are reasonable, some of the kids are B students, but the faculty will take the capable kids as high as they want to go. Faculty:students about 1:8. "Hard physical labor" (as my son refers to jobs) is expected of everyone. They're all learning how to chop wood, build shower fires, repair stuff that breaks, scavenge photovoltaic equipment to run the lights, and write grants to get "stuff" for the school.
I have no idea what's available where you live, but maybe you could look for a challenging supportive environment that isn't necessarily a highly selective elite private.</p>

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<p>NY- your son will be fine. I say that not to minimize your pain or trivialize what you're going through but I know a dozen kids who at 13 were just like your kid, and I know them now at 22 and they're all fine so yours will be too.</p>

<p>First, you need to take a deep breath. You seem to have crafted a scenario where his whole life depends on how he does in school this year, and not only is that not true, it puts a lot of pressure on both of you which isn't called for. Yes, you've outlined optimal scenario from your perspective. well, there may well be plans B and C out there that could be even better..... you're just not focused on them yet, since you've got lots of eggs in the Plan A basket.</p>

<p>I would suggest downloading and reading as much material from CTY as you can get your hands on. First of all, it will make you realize that there are thousands of kids like your son. CTY is set up not only to capitalize on the kids strengths but also to eliminate the barriers that make many smart kids fail. There's a reason kids aren't allowed to do homework in their dorms; much of the day is set up to help kids internalize the kind of work habits and organizational skills that may not come naturally to kids who get distracted easily by lots of other things. It will also help you see that the middle school years are, developmentally, a lot closer to toddlerhood than many well-meaning educators believe.... kids are growing at an astonishing rate, smart kids would probably do better in a nursery school-like environment with a lot of stimulation, insteady of stuffed into a classroom hearning a teacher drone on about Native Americans.</p>

<p>Second, I'd get your son to own this problem right now, which means you need to back off a tad. You can explain that without him focusing on school this year (which means doing the teachers dorky assignments, not losing the book, etc.) private school is a longshot. Given that, how would he like your help to either concoct an alternative plan, develop some coping skills to stay in your public schools and be happy there, or find a way to do what he needs to do to get into private school..... he needs to own the solution, he needs to ask your help in whatever solution he decides.</p>

<p>Third, you need the long term perspective here. Your kid is not a failure if he doesn't get into private school; your kid doesn't need to have his act together at 13. Dumping the videogames was a good start. Look around at his environment (from his perspective....) You can slowly replace the time-wasters with more interesting things.... a kid with lots in his head who loves to learn is going to pick up on the organizational skills at some point (mine did it Freshman year at MIT-- god help us....) so don't get too worried about that.... just keep his world filled with challenge.</p>

<p>We did the library once a week.... even in middle school. There were weeks when he'd check out 12 books on sports statistics.... but they were books. He would read 8 or 9 at once-- teachers would complain that he never did his homework and that we should limit his outside reading to give him time to complete his assignments. We chose to ignore that advice. Eventually he learned to do both.</p>

<p>If the independent schools are too much of a longshot, take some time to look at religious hs (unless the world view is too much of a stretch.) I don't know where you live, but in some places the private schools offer an illusory experience compared to CTY-- small classes, which is good, but a real jock environment, and a lot of spoon-feeding since the abilities of the kids varies widely (when you visit, you'll meet the well-adjusted brilliant ones.... nobody introduces you to the dim rich kids....) For our needs, we found a religious HS did the trick- great teachers, none with teaching degrees but all with a passion for their subject matter, lots and lots of rules which the administration cheerfully admitted were antediluvian but were there to help contain the chaos which is adolesence, kids who were really motivated to learn and expand their horizons. </p>

<p>I don't know if you've got any of these near you.... my point is that your son's future doesn't depend on him not losing his books just at this point in time... you probably have options you haven't explored yet.</p>

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<p>I'm not sure I have anything to say that will help, but your posts caught my attention for two reasons. First, I was an underachiever, because I was bored out of my skull at school. As far as I was concerned, school was a brutal prison sentence. I can completely relate to the things your son is spending time doing, like picking locks and such. (I learned to pick locks when I was his age, and it has gotten me out of trouble a number of times.)</p>

<p>There is nothing worse for a gifted child than not being challenged. It's not just an intellectual disappointment, but can even be physically and emotionally painful. Fight whatever battles you must, to get him into a situation where he is challenged and working effectively toward his goals. </p>

<p>The other reason your post caught my eye is that my husband and I homeschooled our daughter, and through much of your post it sounded like it might be a good option for your son, until I read the part about your work stresses. Homeschooling often requires fewer life and career changes on the parents' part than you might think, but perhaps it's not in the cards for your son. Nevertheless, as a gifted child, he has special needs, and the public school system may not be able to meet those them. You're going to have to figure out how to help him get what he needs.</p>

<p>Your son has something fantastic that most children his age don't have. A goal. He wants MIT. What exactly did you mean when you said "my S understands and accepts the situation"? Sure he needs to know is there's a chance he won't be admitted, but he also needs to know it's a goal worth working toward. His chances are as good or better than anybody else's, and since he has set his sights so early, he has more opportunity to position himself for admission than others. He doesn't need to dwell on the idea that he might not get it, not now. There's plenty of time to look at other fabulous colleges in the mean time. Be sure you don't stomp on his dream, when he has told you it's all he has to cling to.</p>

<p>Why not help him find a way to get to MIT (or some other excellent school) early? My husband was admitted to MIT at the age of sixteen. That was some time ago, but why not let your son see what he can accomplish? Maybe it's time for a campus visit. Does MIT have a program for gifted children? Many colleges do. Can he start taking high school classes now? Many homeschoolers start taking community college courses at a very young age, and many high schools have programs that allow students to take credits at local colleges.</p>

<p>It sounds like you need to sit down together as a team and agree that the current situation is not working, then find a way to do something different. If you slide further and further into a nagging/resisting relationship it will do nothing but erode his self esteem. That's a dead-end street. I know. I grew up that way. </p>

<p>To be clear, I'm not saying you should push your son into early college admission, or any other form of overachieving. I'm just saying it sounds like he's stifled and needs to be moving forward now, and not just biding his time until some day when he can actually do something about his life. Maybe I'm wrong about looking for more academic challenges for him right now, and he really does need to spend a year or so picking locks. The point is, his intellectual needs should be taken seriously, and he should not be made to spin his wheels in a situation that's not right for him.</p>

<p>Your son sounds like an amazing young man, so worry less about how he will look on paper, and more about his very real needs at this time. You are a wonderful parent to be losing sleep over this - just don't give up. You might lose a little more sleep, but if you trust your son and what he is telling you, both directly and through his behavior, you'll find a way to help him.</p>

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<p>NYMom:</p>

<p>There are several issues at work here. One is boredom as a result of unchallenging curriculum. One is disorganization, owing to ADD or something similar. One is the typical teen boy behavior. We need to sort out which factors are in play.</p>

<p>It is really too bad that your school does not allow EPGY. IF your son can handle it, I would suggest going with EPGY or something similar, but outside high school. It would be like being at CTY (minus the friendships) all year long on top of school. Is it doable? By the way, there may be distance classes that are less expensive than EPGY. Furthermore, if he is interested only in enrichment as opposed to credits, he can try to download some free materials.
2. Disorganization: Some might be associated with boredom, i.e, not caring to do or turn in homework that is mere busywork;some may be due to ADD. In the first case, he may need persuading that bored or not, he needs to pay closer attention to the assignments and requirements. At the same time, try assigning him more challenging work: either ask him to do more than the required minimum (a longer paper, for example, or a more challenging set of math problems). When my S was in heterogeneous classes that assigned practically no writing, I worked hard to have him put in enrichment classes that met only twice a week. But in these classes he was expected to write several papers per semester, and one of these was entered by his teacher for the National History Day Competition. Working hard on these papers was his escape from terminal boredom. For math and science, he used CTY fast-paced high school classes in the summer to skip classes and go straight to AP classes because he wanted to avoid being bored by slower honors classes.</p>

<p>Would he look at the kind of extra homework my S thrived on as a burden or an opportunity? Would the school allow him to skip classes if he took the prerequisite at CTY in the summer? Are there weekend or late afternoon or evening enrichment programs available in your area? Look into outreach programs at universities and colleges close to you. </p>

<p>If you focus on his intellectual development rather than grades, some solutions may come up that will render the grade issue of far less concern. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I second sorting out the issues from the ground up. You say, for example that your S does not have ADD. Do you know that for sure - Has he been evaluated by a professional? You very well could be right, of course, that it is the lack of intellectual stimulation that is the root of all of the issues here, but the two are not mutually exclusive. </p>

<p>Depending upon the results of such an evaluation , you could also choose to spend the money you would have spent on private schools on individual tutors, instead. This could potentially accomplish several things - it takes you out of the picture so that you are not the one nagging - breaking that cycle of resistance thing. You could use subject tutors in the areas in which your S is struggling and/or bored both to help him learn study skills and organizational skills as well as to enrich and expand upon the existing curriculum.</p>

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<p>In my opinion, blossom's advice is absolutely spot on.</p>

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<p>I second roshke's suggestions. Evaluate for ADD and LD. I have kids who are LD with gifted IQ. The school pays lip service but doesn't really know how to handle these kids. We ended up staying in the public school and putting our money into tutors, music lessons, summer programs. It works well for us.
The biggest obstacle to this method is the amount of busy work in middle school. It seems to increase and then decrease in HS.
Good luck! It sounds like your son has what it takes. Finding the right techniques, challenges will help.
P.S. Many successful adults lose and forget things. They learn systems for keeping the detritis in order.</p>

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<p>Our son, now 17 and a college freshman, sounded much like your 13-year old son. In fact, I loved your description:
He's sweet and enthusiastic and intellectually active, but somehow this doesn't turn into accomplishments.</p>

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<p>Our disorganized son benefited from about six weeks with a private tutor who taught and encouraged a lot of organizational techniques. That was most worthwhile for him IMO.</p>

<p>But IMO a relevant question would be: is your son truly "disorganized", or is it that he just can't be bothered to do the (often low level) work? Or both?</p>

<p>If he truly is disorganized, then perhaps a tutor can help. Better organization would improve his grades and, presumably, would improve his prospects for changing schools.</p>

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<p>Sorry about that, didn't mean to hit "send" just then.</p>

<p>Anyway, I want to echo what the others have said, reminding you not to worry so much about your child. If he is a sweet and nice kid, as you have said, he'll be fine. 13-year olds have so much going on with their bodies and hormones, that adding school responsibilities to the mix sometimes puts them over the top. And if your son is the "thinker" he sounds to be, every inch of him is busy all the time.</p>

<p>Our son started talking about MIT when he was 13, too. He figured that was the place there would be other people who were like him, pondering the universe's big questions and wondering about difficult things.</p>

<p>We homeschooled our son, which doesn't sound like an option for you, but worked for us. Nevertheless, our son continued to be scatterbrained with schoolwork and chores. We laughingly called him "the absentminded professor." At 16 we enrolled him in the local community college so he could learn to organize himself and handle challenges. He did, and it worked. Despite many "learning experiences" along the way, he matured and applied to colleges and was accepted, not by MIT, but another school where he is flourishing. He's been there a month and tells me every week, "Mom, I love being around the minds of the kids here."</p>

<p>The moral of the story is to let him grow up. Encourage him. Let him make his own mistakes. Love him for the fascinating kid he is. He'll outgrow this!</p>

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<p>Everyone's advice is good here so I have little to add except this. I've got a son with his sights on MIT. His chances are decent, but like everyone who applies it's a long shot. The good news is that there are lots of schools out there that are really good that are MUCH easier to get into than MIT. So if your son remains in the public schools bright, but disorganized he'll still have good choices. Really.</p>

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<p>Some kids are simply bored silly by the routinized nature of many public high schools. Perhaps it isn't the problem with the son, but a problem with the setting. And perhaps the answer isn't an elite independent school, but a place with more open ended learning experiences, a place in which your son can be allowed to work at his own pace and to his own high level. This could be a charter school, alternative school, homeschool, non-secular school, etc.</p>

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<p>NYMomof2,</p>

<p>Actually, as the mom of two teenage sons, your son sounds quite normal to me!;)</p>

<p>Blossom has a good understanding of kids like your son, as do the other posters. I have to tell you that I don't think the disorganization thing is ever going to be really "fixed." Both boys and my H are like that, and it can just drive me crazy. </p>

<p>I accept that older S is a "space cadet" in many ways. And every time we move, I feel like I should pin a note to my Husband's shirt with his name, address and phone number, in case he gets lost. "Please return to Sender"</p>

<p>Both kids really chafe at busy work. I admit that I take on the role of secretary in some ways, by organizing papers and making sure kids write down assignments in a planner.</p>

<p>I second Blossom's suggestion of religious HS, if you can find one with a good selection of classes, especially APs. If it's all-boy, even better. All male schools seem to really understand the developmental issues of adolescent males, which I believe are quite different from those of girls.</p>

<p>Bottom line -- support him administratively, but understand where he is developmentally and give him space to be a kid. I tried to focus on what my kids were learning, rather than their grades. They do tend to perform better in hard classes, when their competitive juices are aroused. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I'll echo sjmom2329 a bit here. My husband had a terrible time in school and is a highly successful disorganized business owner. His theory is that keeping things like phone numbers and appointments in your head "wastes space."<br>
A graduate student asked me once how she could become more organized, I told her to do what my husband did and marry someone organized. Between myself and the other people who work in our business, we keep him organized so he can program, engineer, and do the things I couldn't do if my life depended on it.
That said, a traditional school path, including MIT may not be your sons. If he really wants to turn things around and go to MIT, he will but without some organization skills to keep him going, even if he go into MIT, his chances of survival there are not great.<br>
Love the idea about trying out a tutor. When I struggle with my kids, someone else can come in and say the same thing I said and the kids ACTUALLY HEAR IT. It's like a miracle...</p>

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<p>I have not read all the responses yet -- I will have to do that later when I have time.</p>

<p>I wanted to respond because your son sounds so much like mine! that son is now 17, but you describe him to a T. Even the school district description is accurate.</p>

<p>We chose to homeschool our two kids for several years and it was wonderful! my younger son, now 13 years old, is thriving in a public IB school. My older son is still homeschooling -- it was a better fit for him.</p>

<p>Consider homeschooling -- it is not for everyone, but your son does sound well suited. My son took online classes and community college classes. He was able to get the acceleration and interaction he needed that way and homeschooling allowed him to move at the pace he needed and explore topics that aren't always covered in regular schools.</p>

<p>MIT regularly admits homeschoolers, so that would not be an issue (provided he has the scores and grades).</p>

<p>An excellent book to read is The Well Trained Mind by Susan Wise Bauer. Your son could also read the book (skip the part about the "grammar stage" since that is about younger kids.</p>

<p>Just thought I would chime in on this since the situation sounded so familiar. We were not in a financial position to put our sons in private school and now we are glad we did not -- homeschooling was a better option for us.</p>

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<p>At least for this semester, tutor could be part of the answer. In 4th grade we did that for my daughter. Assisstant principal had been a wonderful, enthusiastic teacher to my older child. We hired her and together she and my daughter designed a "project of interest". In her case, she decided to do something on the Holocaust because of a book she read. Tutor used that to work on various higher level thinking skills, teach library and database researching skills, presentation skills, etc and in the end, she presented a "unit" to her class involving literature and history but that was never part of the original plan. The two of them set the parameters for these "enrichment" sessions and it turned out great.</p>