Help! I'm at my wits' end with 13-year-old S

Parents Forum
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<p>
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...do what my husband did and marry someone organized.

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<p>Good one! My 5th grade son needs a wife. Or at least a Jeeves. </p>

<p>NYMom: Can't diagnose over a message board, but have you absolutely ruled out ADD? The inattention, disorganization, loss of focus (with boring stuff that you still must focus on), propensity to lose books & forget assignments. Coupled with high IQ. All classic symptoms. I'd encourge you to revisit that possibility.</p>

<p>I'm in NJ and every single privte and parochial school offers "freshman for a day" visits. Some actually won't review the application unless the kid has spent the day. October is also the popular open house month, usually followed by Dec. testing. So offer the possibility of an escape to a challenging h.s. as a reward for focusing. One great plus in NJ (and I know for the schools in the 5 boros) is an abundance of merit-based scholarships in the all-boy Catholics. Worth exploring.</p>

<p>Good luck. It can be exasperating.</p>

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<p>I have a 13 year old son who is very much like yours. Despite being amazingly capable very little of it seems to translate into output. Testing done in school did indicate the possibility of ADHD and a non-verbal learning disability. We are taking him for further testing to an outside psychological testing service. I would strongly encourage testing and would strongly discourage the single goal of MIT. It is just one of many excellent schools and at 13, it should be about keeping his options open and not focusing in on one school.</p>

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<p>Just realized I might be wrong about testing dates. Check the Archdiocese website in your area to find out the Catholic co-op test date. It might be in October. Some privates used a standard admission test while others had their own exam, as do the independent Catholics.</p>

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<p>not sure what the independent HS situation is, but if yo are going to go "private" do it NOW. As a praticle matter, applications, tours, tests, etc happen soon</p>

<p>Do not discount Catholic HS...many have tough curriculams, and can help with the focus and organization.....</p>

<p>So, if you are really interested in going outside the public system, start the process NOW....in some places it is similar to college application process....fun times</p>

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<p>Consider homeschooling if possible. Realize how subjective school grades are. Just as great teachers can do wonders for a kid, sometimes a kid can be held back, penalized, or have his interest/confidence destroyed by teachers who are particular about things that don't really matter when you consider that the goal is LEARNING. Sometimes there is a personality clash with a teacher. Sometimes a kid who moves too fast, or seems to know more than she does can really frustrate a teacher. . .Your kid is hitting puberty--not an easy time for any kid. Time to ease up, make sure he gets plenty of sleep, expect moodiness. Disorganization seems to be a problem for many if not most boys--I'd say it is normal. (Only 1 of 4 males in this family has any sense of organization). And since most teachers (and most mothers, too!) are female, disorganization seems to be a common complaint. Homeschooling gives kids freedom to learn and takes the focus off of grades for the sake of grades. It can also cut down on some of the busywork/paperwork that feeds disorganization. IMO it is too early to focus on getting into a particular college. Your kid need space/time to explore, be creative, and enjoy learning.</p>

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<p>In our city, the tests very depending if its the HSPT/Co-Op or the SSAT, and prep books are available at most book stores...i recommend a bit of prepping because the formats are different....</p>

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<p>DS #2 had similar perceptions and attitudes as OP's at that age (13). He was in a large public middle and moved to a large public high. He was advanced in math, science, history and foreign language. The school made some accomodations but by and large his time management skills and organization developed when he had to learn to balance athletics with academics.</p>

<p>He didn't start out as a varsity athlete but with motivation and drive he ended up as a 3 season varsity athlete and team captain. Balancing his sport, his friends, his homework and his responsibilities to others forced his accountability in all areas of his life. He knew if schools such as MIT and others were on his radar he would need to step up.</p>

<p>As each year passed he realized how he could improve and streamline his goals. I wasn't much help as far as the subject material nor the sports stuff, but I could help with some organization ideas. He had to be of the mindset to listen.</p>

<p>It came down to how badly did he want it. He also went into the college app process knowing he would be primarily responsible for the financial end of it as well. That information he was told of early (pre-high school) and often.</p>

<p>He ended up graduating from the public in June with many of the acceptances he sought including MIT and CalTech, he however decided elsewhere. Another contributing factor to his growth and maturation process was his tutoring. Not someone tutoring him, but rather he tutoring others. Especially in the math and sciences. Helped his organizational skills tremendously and gave him a glimpse of what it was like for others who truly struggle with math and science.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>Kat (mom with 3 boys)</p>

<p>edited: it really came out in his val speech, one of my "mommyisms": to whom much is given, much is expected!</p>

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he asked last year to be excused from math class this year, proposing that he do math through EPGY. This request was initially agreed to by the principal, almost as a matter of course, but later denied because of objections from the teachers' union rep (!)

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Why on earth would the union rep have any input into this decision??? It sounds like someone overstepping their authority.</p>

<p>Does your son have an IEP in which you can include EPGY? Teachers must adhere to the directives of the IEP. Also, wouldn't his substitutuing EPGY math for the school math be a matter for the school board to approve? I would not take the principal's backing down to the teachers' union rep as the final word, but would go over his head to the curriculum coordinator or the superintendent.</p>

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<p>I also believe that if your son has not been thoroughly assessed for ADD etc., he should be. I've seen kids, especially gifted boys, change dramatically in terms of organization after being diagnosed and treated.</p>

<p>In one of your posts you say he'll probably be motivated when he sees the private schools. I couldn't agree more. When my kids spent a day at the school they now go to, which they didn't even want to look at, they knew they'd found a new home. </p>

<p>In my area, it's hard to get into the private schools that are good. Simply too few and they only take the kids with very top grades. This has forced many to consider boarding schools. There are many excellent ones which take very bright kids who don't have top grades. While your son doesn't want to live away, he very well may change his mind when he spends a day at one. My best friends son, ewho sounds similar to yours, just began at one and is thrilled that it reminds him so much of being at CTY.</p>

<p>There's no easy answer but this kid should be at a place where he is happy and challenged if you can swing it.</p>

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<p>NYMomof2 - There's great advice above! Your son sounds pretty normal, based on my personal experience. Sometimes, as in my case, organization comes as part of the maturing process.</p>

<p>Besides what's been mentioned above, you may want to guide your S into situations that stimulate him. For me that was a combination of travel, reading, architecture and outdoor activities. Different things may appeal to your S. (My brilliant friend from HS started a brewry in the basement of his parent's home, but I can't recommend that.) Have you visited RPI? Webb Institute? Colgate? It's amazing what an young man can learn just traveling to a destination. Good luck to you!</p>

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<p>Thank you all for your responses! I can't tell you how helpful it is to read them, as I have been off and on since early this morning. I don't have time to respond now, but I will later tonight. I greatly appreciate your generosity. </p>

<p>More later.</p>

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<p>I do have to say be thankful that so far your kid has pretty much behaved...I have seen so many in middle school start down that path and making really bad judgement calls....smoking drinking drugs sex failing school skpping etc</p>

<p>When I get frustrated with my Ds, like the fact she left her bag in a room while decorating a school gym and her Ipod was stolen, even though I told her NOT to leave it anywhere, because the school does have a "things go missing" problem, in the grand scheme they are good girls who work hard who biggest messups are not calling on time</p>

<p>I and you should count our blessings that thus far, they have been great kids with no big problems we have to worry about</p>

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<p>NYMom -</p>

<p>Another mom here with intelligent son who seems to be easily distracted. My S is 16, and in a private co-ed Catholic high school. Even here he always comments on how easy the work is, and yet his grades are not quite what his sister did, nor is he as involved in as many activities. His sister is at Princeton. S does not yet have any ideas about where he wants to go to school, but he is probably a tad less math and science than your guy, so it wouldn't be MIT:). Anyway, I have struggled and struggled with my own desire to prod him into the achievement that I'm pretty sure his brain could bring him, if he would just focus on school rather than other things. My struggle has concluded by my promising never to tell him to do his homework again. And I'm sticking to it. I have refrained from making him do Latin competitions, math competitions, etc., in order to have a way for him to shine.</p>

<p>Because here's what I know about parenting teenagers with a capacity for mental activity:). (How'd you like that euphemism?) I know it from hanging out with software programmers whose IQs are stratospheric, and from my own two differently constituted children. There is way more to achievement in life than mental acuity. Way more. There is way more to achievement in life than where you go to college. You don't seem to be all about the prestige, I believe you want your son to find a happy, fulfilled way through life. So what to do about his grades at the age of 13, and his chances of getting into a challenging private high school has to be considered in context.</p>

<p>In your description you left some things out. Does he have friends? Is he the leader type? The gregarious type? More prone to come home alone? Does he like sports? Does he flirt with girls? All these things will have as much if not more impact on his life than whether or not he goes to a private school and gets good grades and goes to MIT. And the degree to which his grades affect his life over time depends on the degree to which these other factors contribute to his self and sense of self.</p>

<p>As the mom it's about the balance. Taking a clear look at the nature and the patterns of learning and progress in your child and clearing the path as best you can, giving guidance and support. Some paths you clear he will take. Some paths, maybe the ones you've cleared with a machete leaving 4-inch thorns in your hair, he will not take. So you can stop agonizing over this one moment with a clear conscience.</p>

<p>OK. Enough Carlos Casteneda:). If he has begun to resent you pushing him on the homework you will have to back off. Not all the way, but you will have to find another way to set his course. I have come to the point of saying, "I expect good grades because I believe you yourself would say you need to go to college with kids and faculty you respect. But I will not say anything about how you do that." For a 13-year old the language is different, but I think the concept is the same. Make clear your expectations, explain why you have them, get him to either agree or disagree, and if he agrees, then just keep offering support as required.</p>

<p>Then investigate Plan B sorts of alternatives, the tutors, the CTY, have him tutor others, push the public school system, whatever seems to work best for him.</p>

<p>And then, keep in the back of your mind, Plan C boys grow late. So he could stay at the public school, go to public high school, do terribly freshman year, decide that's not any fun, take a summer class and accelerate math and science via CTY and colleges, and wind up with three rising grade trend years in high school and use all the stuff he learned when he wasn't paying attention in middle school to develop his creative projects and STILL go to MIT. You know, at 13, saying he wants to go to MIT is magical thinking. It represents some true desire, but MIT might not be the real-life fulfillment of that true desire.</p>

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<p>I don't want to be an alarmist. </p>

<p>A couple of things stick out that bother me.</p>

<p>When he described MIT as a light at the end of a dark tunnel.</p>

<p>When his disorganization and overall production (grades) deteriorate with a what looks like a snowball effect.</p>

<p>I think you should consult with a psychologist to see if depression is sinking in. </p>

<p>Depression can cause the inattention to details (such as homework).</p>

<p>Depression tends to snowball.</p>

<p>It is very common for it to appear in young adolecents. And is very treatable.</p>

<p>And there is no shame in depression. </p>

<p>Please consider an evaluation. This is not something to diagnose on your own.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>goaliedad, perhaps your advice is warranted, but I would suggest that seeing MIT (or any good college) as a light at the end of a tunnel is an accurate and insightful observation for any smart kid stuck in a traditional public school -- it can be a nightmare of regimentation and abuse.</p>

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<p>I see wonderful advice here from parents who have lived or are living some part of what NYMomof2 is struggling over. I do want to say that I had the same thought as goaliedad. Like him, I don't want to be an alarmist. But the "dark tunnel" phrase reached out to me. And depression, which is NOT something to be ashamed of and CAN easily be treated, sounds like at least as much of a possibility as ADD/ADHD which many others have mentioned.</p>

<p>It was the "dark" tunnel part that spoke to me. Maybe it was just a chance selection of words, or even mom's re-casting of the kid's words. But, I hope, NYMomof2, that you will consider depression as one possibility along with all other possible causes and solutions.</p>

<p>Whether he needs treatment for depression or ADD/ADHD or not, I see a great kid here. With a mom who is focused on exactly the right questions. With your help (and Alumother's machete ;) ), he will end up on a path that is right for him. Good luck.</p>

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<p>celloguy,</p>

<p>Yes, the light at the end of the tunnel could very well be a good thing. My D now at a prep school, did not enjoy the public school much either an seems (in her first week) much more motivated. I think she was going into a funk in her last year at public school. And gradually that can creep into real depression, especially with the negative feedback that has been coming to the poster who posed the original question.</p>

<p>I just think that it would be wise to rule out depression. </p>

<p>I actually think it is more likely than ADHD from the description of the child. However, I am not a professional in this area, so no diagnosis is being made here. YMMV and all of the other usual disclaimers.</p>

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<p>And sometimes, believe it or not, there is absolutely no pathology at all. Nothing that needs medical treatment, a little pill...sometimes kids are unhappy, sometimes inattentive or disorganized, sometimes just the school academic or social fit is wrong. </p>

<p>Kids can be situationally unhappy, but it doesn't mean they are necessarily deeply depressed, ADD, or anything else.</p>

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<p>There are lots of great comments here, and I will try to respond to some. I've read and appreciated all of them, and gained some perspective, comfort, and new ideas.</p>

<p>Goaliedad, I can see why the idea of depression would come to mind, and I certainly would not hesitate to get my S some help if I thought it a possibility, but I feel certain that he is not depressed. The "dark tunnel" comment was mine, not his, and I don't think either of us thought of his entire life as a "dark tunnel", but only his educational situation. He is usually cheerful and enthusiastic and, although he does have his bad moods, they are infrequent and not severe. For the last couple of weeks he's been after me to arrange Chinese language lessons for him - it's not offered in school. I've been resisting because his life is not in order, but I think it's a sign of a positive attitude that he has so many interests. (He wants to study Arabic as well.) Right now he's working on his model train layout, making bridges. This afternoon his younger brother had a friend over, and he spent quite a bit of time with them, happily, showing the friend how the trains, tracks, etc., work. He's certainly been down in the dumps about school at times, and last year was pretty bad, but he has always had other parts of his life going well. </p>

<p>I'm not quite so sure that he doesn't have ADD, but I don't think he has it. One characteristic that he's had his entire life is a very long attention span. When he was a two-year-old, the teachers in his childcare center (who had masters degrees in early childhood education) were struck by the fact that he did not have the typical 20-minute attention span, but one that was almost indefinite. He did see a very well-respected psychiatrist when he had behavior problems in kindergarden and first grade, a lovely woman who "diagnosed" his problem as boredom. She was the one who suggested that we have him tested, and she urged us to put him in private school (I wish I'd listened). She did not see any disorders, and his teachers did not think he had ADD. This year his teachers say that he focuses intently on lectures, is oblivious to anything else going on, and participates enthusiastically in class discussions. But he is incredibly absent-minded and forgetful, so maybe I should have this assessed.</p>

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<p>NYMomof2 - </p>

<p>I'm glad to hear that those were your words. Nobody wants to hear those kinds of words from their child.</p>

<p>My son has focus and attention issues, but he is an Aspergers. Having a child like this makes me think hard about how the mind works and the more I think, the more complicated it truly seems.</p>

<p>And maybe complicated is part of the issue. Your son does seem to have a lot of things on his plate and perhaps some of the attention to detail issues have something to do with this. As much as children love to learn lots of new things, sometimes they don't regulate their exposure well and overwhelm themselves.</p>

<p>He wants to go to MIT. But he also want so many experiences between now and then. Perhaps it is time he learns that their is a price to pay for those high priority goals in (MIT) terms of perhaps delaying others(Chinese).</p>

<p>Or maybe he just needs better organization tools to help him manage all these things, although a Palm Pilot for a youngster like him who still enjoys the idle time hobbies of tinkering with model railroad bridges with his friend seems like the destruction of the innocence of childhood.</p>

<p>I can't say that I can put a finger on it yet.</p>