Help in choosing music or theatre

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>Hi!! I'm applying to Loyola University, Chicago, and I see that MT is a minor, not a major. Also, I see that for either a Theatre or Music major, I need not audition (which is a big thing, since I'm currently in India, and can't get to the US to audition).</p>

<p>I'd like to know, please, if I should apply as a Music major or Theatre major for Fall 2012.</p>

<p>I've only been singing for the past one and a half years, but I've grown by leaps and bounds (or so, I hope :)). In fact, I've only just finished a National Tour with Oscar winner A R Rahman. But I've done many local theatre productions (for the last 3 years) and I'm quite well known in the local theatre scene.</p>

<p>So I'm confused as to what to apply for. I'd welcome advice from any veteran here :D</p>

2

<p>If you can, double major… </p>

<p>If not, I would choose theatera, and take voice lessons.</p>

3

<p>Apply for both majors and see which acceptances you prefer.</p>

4

<p>But the application allows for only one major to be selected.
And I don’t want to choose the wrong one :)</p>

5

<p>At most school that don’t require an audition, you are free to change majors once you get to the school and see what the program is like. I would think that either one would be good, especially since you can choose MT as a minor. I personally would look at the full curriculum for both majors and see which one appeals to you most, then select that one with the knowledge that you can change it later if it isn’t what you were hoping for.</p>

6

<p>You will be doing the mt minor on top of whatever you choose, correct? </p>

<p>Have you contacted admissions and ask about the posibility of a double major, or auditioning for both?</p>

<p>It’s hard to answer this without knowing you… but I would recommend going with theater and finding a good voice teacher. If you go into voice, chances are, your curriculum is going to be centered around opera. They may require you to audition for operas, which will pull you away from doing plays and musicals. There are voice majors at my school who want to do things with the theater dept, but can’t because of their major requirements… All-around, it’ll be better in my opinion for you to go the theater route… as long as you get a private voice teacher. I’m sure that if you want to, you’ll be able to register for some of the music majors classes. :-)</p>

<p>I hope this helps.</p>

7

<p>Oh, wait, I can be a Theatre major and still register and do Music major classes?? Sorry, I’m new to all of this :slight_smile:
But yeah, MT is available as a Minor, and there are no auditions for either major.</p>

<p>But the thing is that I haven’t learnt much by way of dance. Only started a year ago…
So I’d like to concentrate on opera as well. Do the voice students you know take part in ANY musicals at all??</p>

8

<p>If you’d like more info on the courses, the music major has these</p>

<p>[Department</a> of Fine and Performing Arts, Loyola University Chicago](<a href=“http://www.luc.edu/dfpa/a_musc_courses.shtml]Department”>http://www.luc.edu/dfpa/a_musc_courses.shtml)</p>

<p>and the theatre major has these</p>

<p>[Department</a> of Fine and Performing Arts, Loyola University Chicago](<a href=“http://www.luc.edu/dfpa/a_thtr_courses.shtml]Department”>http://www.luc.edu/dfpa/a_thtr_courses.shtml)</p>

9

<p>:-) Yes, they have gotten to do some shows. It is just very difficult… and it’s different from school to school. </p>

<p>Some schools will let you join in on different majors classes, while others will not… seeing as Loyola is non-audition, I’d assume that they would be fine with that, but you need to get in contact with either the Music or theater Chair there and talk to them about it. :slight_smile: I’m sure they will be more than willing to tell you all you need to know, and streer you in the right direction.</p>

<p>Also, it is very posible to be a Musical Theater Major and do cross-over work with Opera. :slight_smile: I am very interested Operettas, and some Opera, and have been able to do a lot of work with Operetta music in my voice lessons. I would recommend finding a voice teacher who will give you strong training in both opera and musical theater. I am blessed to have a voice teacher who is very skilled in both worlds.</p>

10

<p>*** it is difficult because of their Chorale schedule, and sometimes operas will overlap with theater shows. Idk about Loyala’s music program, but it may be easier to work between the music world and theater world there ha ha.</p>

11

<p>I always recommend going with theatre over music in undergrad. Operatic voices do not mature until the mid to late twenties. The acting training received in a theatre major will help with musical theatre and operatic performances. There are also more jobs available to singers of contemporary styles and less institutions training MT than Voice (the last stats I received from NASM/NAST were 383 Vocal Performance Schools and 72 Musical Theatre Schools). Opera sales in the U.S. in 2008-2009 were right around $300 million while Broadway sales the following year were right around $1 Billion in sales. </p>

<p>So basically there are 6 times the number of schools training singers (classical) for an industry (opera) that sells 1/6 the amount of tickets that around 40 theatres in NYC sell for musical theatre (tours almost double the Broadway number and then you have regional theatre).</p>

<p>VT</p>

12

<p>@VoiceTeacher -I hate to quibble, but isn’t it true that a lot more than the graduates of the “72 Musical Theatre Schools” that you noted are competing for Broadway jobs, including some (or many, or maybe almost all…) of the VP grads? There are lots of dancer grads who can sing that compete, actors who can sing and dance that compete, economics-or-whatever majors that can sing (and dance and act) that compete, and people basically “off the street” that can sing and dance and act that compete…</p>

<p>For instance, the bios of more than 400 actors currently working in Broadway shows and tours that listed a school included the following schools that are not in the 72 MT schools listed by NAST and the total number of cast members is around 15-20% of the total (not to mention that not all the cast members who listed one of the schools actually majored in MT):</p>

<p>Julliard 11
Ailey/Fordham 8
Yale 8
BYU 3
Harvard 3
Boston U 2
Brandeis 2
Chapman 2
Clark Atlanta 2
Hofstra 2
LSU 2
Michigan State 2
Oberlin 2
Rutgers 2
Sheridan (CA) 2
Austin College 1
Bird 1
Brooklyn College 1
Cal Arts 1
CSU Long Beach 1
Duke 1
Hampton 1
Illinois 1
Lawrence 1
Miami Ohio 1
Mississippi 1
Morehouse 1
Mount Holyoke 1
MSU 1
Ohio State 1
Princeton 1
Rice 1
Rollins 1
San Jose State 1
Seattle Pacific 1
Smith 1
Spellman 1
Stanford 1
Stephens 1
U Denver 1
U Houston 1
U Maine 1
U Maryland 1
U Wisconsin Eau-Claire 1
UNC Chapel Hill 1
University of New Orleans 1
Vanderbilt 1
Wilberforce 1</p>

<p>(I may have accidently included one or two of the NAST MT schools).</p>

<p>In contrast, its pretty rare for someone who is not a highly trained VP person to get cast in an Opera.</p>

13

<p>You make valid points, but they are just as true on the VP side. I have sang with many singers (in opera) who had degrees other than music and transitioned to opera including: Psychology, Criminal Justice, Computer Programming, English, Professional Football, Musical Theatre, and Music Education (just pulling off the top of my very tired head). Just like MT, they do not care if you have a degree or not, they care if you can sing. The operatic voice takes so long to mature that the undergraduate degree ends up being more of a time killing mechanism at many schools instead of a real training ground. By the time students graduate undergrad, their voices are usually really settling and getting ready for full throated operatic singing. If the student has a degree in theatre before pursuing further education in operatic voice, they come to the table with fight combat, dance, acting, and technical theatre skills that most undergrad VP majors do not have. While the acting student was learning those skills, the VP student was singing in choir (which cultivates a completely different set of vocal muscles and skills than opera), learning to play piano (helpful but not necessary at the level required to graduate), learning music theory (ditto the piano comment), studying music history (most of which does not help singers perform better), and learning languages (which can now be done just as effectively, if not more effectively, via Rosetta Stone).</p>

<p>ALSO: Broadway is a stop along the way, not the only and final destination. There are many performers making a living within the field of contemporary music/theatre outside of NYC. The contemporary music industry as a whole is a $4+ billion industry. Compared to opera’s $300 millon, that’s quite a difference. I know many more people making a reasonable living with some combination of teaching and performing contemporary music/theatre than those in classical voice. I have a BM and MM in classical voice and have worked professionally, I quit for many reasons as my career was climbing and decided to go the route of teaching contemporary styles instead. But one of the very irritating/surprising factors was that my undergraduate MTs were being offered better contracts than I was as a professional opera singer with over 30 roles on my resume. I even had high school bands making more in one night than I was being offered per week at a summer stock opera company. </p>

<p>Opera pays, but only at the very very top. I was offered a leading role a year ago at a B level opera house (2nd to top level) and the amount they wanted to pay me was a complete joke, not to mention they wanted me to share a hotel room and pay my transportation half way across the country. They called me unsolicited in an emergency and their offer was insulting. I could have made more in the 3 week period teaching only my private students than what the gig would have paid after expenses. In contrast, I have MTs asking me if they should take a $1,000 a week cruise ship gig and be out of the city for 6 months or move to the city with the chance of getting a $1,650 a week gig on Broadway - opera singers do not have those kind of conversations. There’s are more along the line of - this place wants me to sing for free but they will house me for free or I could go to this place that pays $200 a week, I have to find my own housing, but they will introduce me to a few agents. If you land a major gig out of school like Lyric Opera Chicago’s Apprentice Program, you are lucky to get $30,000 a year living in downtown Chicago with a masters’ degree and student loans to pay back. </p>

<p>I don’t mean for that to be a rant of complaints, but I think WAY too many times vocal performance is painted as this rosy picture that is so much less competitive than musical theatre - its not. Its worse. There just happen to be enough opportunities to sing without getting paid (which singers of course would never mention the lack of pay to their friends) that others seem to think there are all these opportunities out there. IF you are a trust fund baby - they are out there - you can make it work and have a great life. But for everyone else, its a hard road. I’ve even had a friend singing at the Met and NYCO and working a day job in an office on her off days. That is the unfortunate reality of opera in the United States.</p>

<p>VT</p>

14

<p>I agree with VT, up to a point, and I don’t want to hijack the OP’s thread…
Yes, VP programs and now MT programs are chock full of far too many kids who, in truth, stand no chance of employment in their fields. Sopranos, in particular, are known as the life-blood of music schools! But the reality today is that if one wants to pursue a career in opera, graduate school is a must and the higher quality the school, the better. To get into those schools, one has to be well trained. Yes, I know the voice matures later, but when one auditions for graduate school, a certain level of competency is required. Additionally, there are requirements in music theory and music history and those have to be made up at the grad level if a student either hasn’t taken them or isn’t up to snuff there either. Languages are required as are diction classes, and if one can’t supply grades for those, then tests must be passed and more courses made up. This can add up to a lot of extra time and money spent at the grad level. The same for piano proficiency- all of those are required.
You can take voice lessons on the side, but you just might not have the time to get to the higher level, depending upon the major as an undergrad. Houses definitely like “singing actors” but reality is that acting will not help you get into a top VP graduate program- they care about what is coming out of your mouth when you sing. And then, you have to look to YAPs after grad school!
The real problem is that young people have to “Specialize” too early and that the number of programs has exploded to accommodate all of the kids who have had leads in their HS musicals or been the soloist in the choirs and had parents, teachers and friends tell them that they “Could be on Broadway” or “Sing at the Met”. It’s a hard road and no decision is easy or right for everyone.
The best advice I can give the OP is to go with whatever program feels to be the best “fit”.You can switch in the second year, if need be. Good luck!</p>

15

<p>Yeah, I spoke with my vocal coach as well. She’s seen me act, sing and dance, and suggested I take the Music path (cos she thinks I’m pretty good with the Acting bit, and I need to develop my voice more). However, I just applied last night for the Theatre major!!! Now I need to email them and see if they’ll change it. :frowning:
Do you think they will??</p>

<p>PS. Thanks, you guys. Sorry about the ones that suggested I go with the Theatre major, but the thing is, there’s always the MT mionr that makes sure I get acting and dance lessons. Also, I can take a class that called ‘Acting for the non-Acting major’. So, win-win in my case! Now I just hope Admissions will change my major…</p>

16

<p>Just FYI lasoprano - There is no difference in “developing your voice” between 1 hour voice lessons in the music department and 1 hour voice lessons taken as a theatre major. The only difference is what you study outside of voice lessons.</p>

17

<p>Okay. :)</p>

<p>But the thing is, I’m bound to have more voice lessons and get to learn more classical music as a voice major, right?? and as a theatre major and MT minor, I’d only learn MT repertoire, not opera or classical repertoire…, right?</p>

18

<p>You should definitely consider staying with the declared theater major… VoiceTeacher knows what he’s talking about… you should definitely take his words into consideration. </p>

<p>I personally take the same amount of voice lessons, and get the same amount of voice training at my current school that the Vocal Performance students take. This is the same for all Musical Theater majors at my school, and acting majors who are taking voice lessons… So declaring at VP major probably won’t put you with more voice lesson time… just more classes in theory, ear training, diction, piano, and so on… and if you don’t have as much voice lesson time as you want as a theater major, talk to your teacher about doing more lessons… it’ll cost you more, but if that is what you want and need, then go for it!</p>

<p>I’ve found that VP majors at my school are not given nearly as much acting traning as they need, by the way… many do not act and fully perform their music… so they SOUND gorgeous, but are not convincing with their acting. I know that you are planning on doing an MT minor, but I strongly believe that you will be much better off with Theater major, rather than voice…</p>

<p>Whatever your decision, I wish you the best! :-)</p>

19

<p>It depends on the school. You will usually get the same number of voice lessons in either major - 1 hour once a week. As far as languages, it varies. At Ithaca, students sing half classical and half musical theatre repertoire in their lessons. There are many other schools that do this as well. If the voice lessons are taught by members of the voice faculty, they are more likely to be classically based. If they are taught in the theatre department, they are more than likely MT based. Not always true, but generally true.</p>

<p>The main issue for me when advising someone is that MT requires a highly specialized skill set that is even more important to master at a young age than that required by opera singers. If as a girl you can’t dance, you’re more than likely going to have problems. The only way you get better at dance is by taking classes every day. High school acting is much different than what is expected in professional theatre. That skill also takes time to develop as a student learns to develop their skills in presentational, realistic, and avant garde theatre. </p>

<p>Years ago it used to be true that you could transition from a vocal performance degree to professional musical theatre performing, but that is just not as true anymore. When people did that the major shows were Les Mis, Miss Saigon, Phantom of the Opera, Beauty and the Beast, and a lot of Golden Age Revivals. Right now the big shows are Rock of Ages, Wicked, Book of Morman, Avenue Q, Rent, Godspell, Jesus Christ Superstar, and every other rock musical around. Legit shows are also not sang as legit anymore as they once were. The ONLY exception was when South Pacific brought in a Met Opera singer. That’s it. Everyone else is expected to make their legit singing more “pop-like”. Go check out national tours and Broadway shows. Listen to Stephanie J. Block and others singing South Pacific and then check out the original cast recording. They are different. The original singer doesn’t use enough chest voice on the bottom for today’s standards. If she sang that way today for an audition, there’s a good chance she wouldn’t get hired.</p>

<p>Original
[South</a> Pacific - Cockeyed Optimist - YouTube](<a href=“South Pacific - Cockeyed Optimist - YouTube”>South Pacific - Cockeyed Optimist - YouTube)</p>

<p>Stephanie J. Block
[Stephanie</a> J. Block - South Pacific - A Cockeyed Optimist - YouTube](<a href=“Stephanie J. Block - South Pacific - A Cockeyed Optimist - YouTube”>Stephanie J. Block - South Pacific - A Cockeyed Optimist - YouTube)</p>

<p>Reba
[South</a> Pacific " A Cockeyed Optimist " - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)</p>

<p>Kelli O’Hara
[A</a> Cockeyed Optimist (Kelli O’Hara) Lincoln Center - YouTube<a href=“Note:%20%20the%20point%20of%20this%20production%20was%20to%20make%20it%20sound%20and%20look%20similar%20to%20the%20original%20-%20more%20of%20a%20historically%20accurate%20production”>/url</a></p>

<p>This is what an opera singer version sounds like:
[url=&lt;a href=“Dame Kiri Te Kanawa sings "A Cockeyed Optimist" - South Pacific - YouTube”&gt;Dame Kiri Te Kanawa sings "A Cockeyed Optimist" - South Pacific - YouTube]Dame</a> Kiri Te Kanawa sings “A Cockeyed Optimist” - South Pacific - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube) This is not acceptable in musical theatre auditions today.</p>

<p>Classical training develops the voice to project acoustically, not on a microphone. If the singer cannot back off the resonance and amplitude of their voice on a mic, they become a problem for the production team - the sound system can make you louder, but it can’t make you quieter. Classical signing also uses a completely different concept of vowels and musical phrasing than musical theatre. To transition over to MT, the student usually has to unlearn a lot first. MT is a youth oriented business so taking a year or two to transition back to MT post-graduation is too long.</p>

<p>Unfortunately it is very true that you are forced to specialize way too early in life. You really have to choose what YOU want to do. Not what your voice teachers wants you to do. If you want to work in musical theatre, then you need to major in musical theatre. If you want to have a career as an opera singer, then you need to major in music. If you are unsure, then you have to way your options and go the direction you think you are most likely to end up going in the future.</p>

<p>I know many people with degrees other than vocal performance working in opera. I know several students with musical theatre degrees who have earned masters degrees in vocal performance. Will you possibly have to retake theory and languages as stated earlier - yes. However, if you don’t learn to dance or act (at a professional level) in undergrad, you will have to pay for private lessons in those disciplines post graduation.</p>

<p>It stinks, but that’s the way it is. Whatever you decide - make sure its YOUR decision and that you have a plan for the future that your college education will support.</p>

<p>VT</p>

20

<p>***and if you have a good voice teacher, they WILL let you do classical AND Musical Theater no matter what major you stick with… though if you do VP, I’m sure that a majority of your rep will be in classical and opera, with a side of MT… if you go the theater route, you’ll probably be focusing more on MT with a side of Classical and Opera. </p>

<p>As I mentioned before, in my voice lessons I have gotten to do a lot of work with classical and operetta music while focussing on my musical theater rep. :slight_smile: … there is another girl at my school who is an MT, but she goes half and half with her rep… half musical theater, half Opera… and she is amazing in both worlds… Being in Theater will not shut you off from being able to dabble in classical and opera, so please don’t let that be the deciding factor.</p>