Help! It’s Complicated.

Parents Forum
1

<p>Help! I need some advice. My son is entering his senior year in high school, so we are about to begin the college application process. As a family, we’ve all worked towards preparing him for admission to an excellent college. He is an outstanding kid. All the STATs, ECs, etc. are spectacular. He has an excellent shot at an Ivy or a really good LAC. So, what’s the problem? </p>

<p>Here it is. My son has been going steady with the same girl since they were both in the seventh grade. They attend different schools but live close enough to see each other frequently. She is a lonely, only child from a single parent home. Her mother has allowed unchaperoned visits while she is at work, and recently has invited my son to sleep over with her daughter whenever he wants. The two are bonded like a married couple. </p>

<p>Neither my wife nor I like this girl. She is manipulative and self centered and emotionally very needy. Of course, my son can’t see this. His girlfriend is also looking at LACs, but probably not Ivies. </p>

<p>Now to me, the benefits of attending an Ivy or first rate LAC involve a whole lot more than just attending classes and studying for tests. I think, in large measure, the benefits include engagement with the array of opportunities for social, emotional and cultural growth offered by such a campus environment. Joining groups and clubs, attending rallies, going to parties, making new friends, dating new people, discovering yourself not only through academic interactions, but also through social, emotional relationships, that’s how I envision the benefits of a top college.</p>

<p>I want to send my son off to a top level university unencumbered by obligations to an established commitment, opened to new possibilities, and willing to engage the process of self discovery. I do not want to send him off with a mind closed to personal discovery, and obligated to his girlfriend's punctual 10:00 pm two hour phone call everyday.</p>

<p>Now I know the obvious advice is not to worry about it, once away at college, they will drift apart. But, I am not so sure. This relationship has already survived prolonged separations (summer internships, etc.) This girl, with the help and support of her mom, (who seems extremely eager to solidify their future) has shown herself to be very cunning at holding on to my son. I am sure they will arrange frequent intercampus visits (no matter what the distance), and special vacations during school breaks (they have always invited my son to travel with them on vacations). They already flood him with small gifts of no occasion that maintain a subtle sense of obligation. In addition, both these young people are a little shy and socially lazy. I think the idea of ending this relationship and finding a new one scares them. </p>

<p>My son and his girlfriend will probably apply to some of the same colleges. In the event that they both attend the same institution, I believe they will continue to focus on each other, participate in few campus activities and pursue no further self development. </p>

<p>More than likely, though, they will attend different colleges. However, even with that scenario, I am certain that they will conduct a long distance relationship that will maintain exclusivity and restrict interaction with others. Under these circumstances, I would be reluctant to support Ivy League expenses. If just attending class is all it’s about, then a good state school seems fine.</p>

<p>Here are my questions:</p>

<p>Should I become proactive in this situation? Should I set conditions for my financial support now at the start of the application process? For instance, should I make it clear that I will not pay for him to attend the same college his girlfriend attends? </p>

<p>Should I make ending this relationship a condition of my financial support to attend a good private school? I have friends who have told their college age children that financial support was dependent on attending a certain college, or choosing a certain major, and all seems to have work out OK.</p>

<p>Should I pay to send my son to a top level university if his commitments restrict his full participation there?</p>

<p>Put differently, should I pay to open doors to his future if he maintains a future that is already dedicated? </p>

<p>Has anyone out there been through this kind of situation? I sure would appreciate your insights.</p>

2

<p>Okay, because this girl is so interested and available, my BIGGEST worry would be pregnancy...you can make no assumptions, especially when there are sleep overs and they are bonded so much</p>

<p>It is easy for a couple that has been together for so long to get lazy and careless</p>

<p>When you describe the mom and daughter, this could be a possibility</p>

3

<p>I think you should encourage him to get married and have children immediately. If he takes it seriously, you'll save thousands and thousands of $$. If he doesn't take it seriously, ask him why not? Disliking the girlfriend probably makes her infinitely more appealing to him.</p>

<p>My husband was in a similar situation many years ago when his father told him no more support if he got married (junior year of college)... so my husband dropped out. He was divorced two years later but never did finish college. (Mind you, he's still been pretty successful; the lack of a degree only bit him once--but that was a big bite, when he lost a job offer because of the lack of the degree.)</p>

<p>Seriously, ultimatums backfire. Have you discussed your concerns with your son? I do know people who are married to the same people they dated in seventh grade, and they're actually pretty happy, even if the concept sets my teeth on edge. Maybe the right answer is to encourage the girlfriend to grow up, go away to school, and get over your son. Even if they're in the same city, if they don't get into the same school, they'll each have different lives, and away from parental influences, they may both change.</p>

4

<p>The more you intervene the more you will push them together. This phenom is documented extensively in the peer review. You have no choice but to do nothing --any ultimatum will backfire. Let time and separation do their things. The best thing you can do is encourage a school 3+ hours distant from hers, making visits every single weekend difficult. Back off --unfortunately, any pressure will do the opposite of what you wish. You may be surprised ...surprised that he will spread his wings when at school, just give him time.</p>

5

<p>Hum... my thoughts:</p>

<p>A resounding "no" to making breaking up a condition of attending a top college. That's a great way to alienate your son. If you don't approve of a relationship, then don't pay for a rehearsal dinner or honeymoon.</p>

<p>Focus on what is important. When I was in high school, I was required to play a sport every season. Some parents have required their kids to do things like attend church. I would, if I were you, require the son to do certain things while on campus. Voice your concerns about him not taking advantage of all that college has to offer, and make your payment conditional upon, for example, a certain GPA and doing some extracurriculars.</p>

<p>Explain to your son that college is a job. His job is to get an education; get good grades; build relationships with fellow students; enjoy himself; participate in college; and take advantage of everything that it has to offer.</p>

<p>I would have more hope for this relationship if it had not been going on since 7th grade. I've been in relationships with clingy men, but I'm independent (read: commitment-phobe) and tend to lose them pretty quickly. </p>

<p>Then again, if he meets smart, talented, friendly women, she might go into a jealous snit that will turn him off to her.</p>

<p>There is a lot of growth that happens in college - encourage your son to go to schools that will allow him to grow as a person. His friends there may help him to get out of his shell and to expand his horizons.</p>

<p>Worried about the mandatory phone calls? Try different time zones. ;) Phone calls getting too much? Don't pay for the cell.</p>

<p>If you are really worried/put out re: paying, the only thing I can suggest is to make him pay some of the cost - say, $3,000/semester. That'll be enough so that the education (a word which, for me, is more than academics) is meaningful.</p>

6

<p>Based on experience of friends of S, it would be best if your S were in the more desirable area, so that it would be the GF who would do the commuting. A 3-hour commute by car can take 8 hours by public transport. </p>

<p>Despite having a GF who visits very frequently, S's friend is able to have a social life and has been doing quite well in college. I would not worry too much. The important thing is to encourage him to apply to colleges that are best for him, not GF.</p>

7

<p>JamesF, I really feel for your situation and truly admire how carefully you are thinking this through; how carefully you are behaving (when I know what you'd really like to do is separate them by 10,000 miles and eliminate all communication media :p!) In your situation, I'd want to do exactly the same.</p>

<p>I think, from your post, you already know that you might luck into their drifting apart. Word of encouragement: my niece had a very similar relationship, with way too much encouragement by her father (my brother!). They went to the same college and I worried greatly, although in this case I loved the boyfriend and still do. They did drift apart as a romance and remained friends, so there is hope. B</p>

<p>But I know you are afraid that might happen. However, you also seem to know that ultimatums could backfire big time. IMO, the risk of tying your support of his college education to his loosening this relationship is too great. I wouldn't do it. </p>

<p>I am hoping some families who have faced this situation will chime in with productive suggestions. I know several have posted here of similar worries re similar relationships.</p>

<p>In the interim, my one suggestion is this: have you started on college visits? I think visits to a few schools, having him get excited about them, might give you an opening to broach the subject in a productive way. It would be very tricky. But you might be able to have the conversation if he loves school X of "I can really see you at X. So many great things going on here. But it is costly and I'm concerned about whether you'll have time to really take advantage of it, and if not, whether it would really be worth it..."</p>

<p>Finally, do the mom and girl in question have unlimited funds for inter-collegiate visits? If so, you're a bit stuck. If not, you can make sure that your son's allowance is not sufficient for a lot of travel - at least if they end up on separate campuses/somewhat distant cities.</p>

<p>Cross posted with aries, whose ideas are really excellent imo. We certainly told S that college was his "job" and set expectations re GPA. The additional "conditions" of fully experiencing college life, by participating in EC/whatever is a great approach. You can use it and never touch the idea of the GF.</p>

8

<p>My S was in a similar situation, committed to high school girlfriend as they headed off to colleges hundreds of miles apart. We tried very hard to stay out of it. Our expectations have always been that he earn decent grades, be involved in at least one extracurricular activity at school, and spend most weekends on campus. Review of the cell phone statements freshman year made it clear that he was spending most nights and weekends talking to her -- who would think of free cell phone minutes would be a problem. Friends were betting that they would - break up Freshman year by Thanksgiving or the mid year break - did not happen. Finally, middle of sophomore year, they both decided they were missing out on too much and broke up. My son states that having the support of this high school girlfriend got him through his first semester of college.</p>

9

<p>I would not negotiate and set limits and ultimatums. I would sit and talk (not lecture) with my son about my thoughts and feelings for his future. I would keep my thoughts about the negatives regarding the gf out of it. I really think that my S would listen and consider what I had to say about dating, what I felt college was about, what I hope he would gain from the college experience, about not limiting his options and opportunities so early in his life.
I would also listen to my son's point of view, and hopefully we could discuss the matter and come to some understanding.</p>

10

<p>Tying his college choices to whether or not he gives up his girlfriend? I'm not trying to be rude, but it sounds like you are the one being manipulative here. Please, to preserve your relationship for the future, back away, quickly, from that thought. Help him pick the best college for him (don't forget a few safeties! Even if he is an excellent student, the ivies are a lottery), and don't worry about girlfriend. It is not your relationship - it is his. Chances are good that they will grow apart - but it is not your place to try to force that to happen.</p>

11

<p>JamesF, have you ever met with the mother and sat down to talk with her in confidence?</p>

<p>I'm asking because the things you posted that she is doing - inviting your son on vacations, inviting him to spend the night - sound to me like there's a slight possibility that her views are identical to yours, and she may be playing the card of encouraging them to be together as much as possible and concealing her disapproval, in the hopes that they'll cool off. She probably knows that if she objects in any way they will simply bond closer together. </p>

<p>It really isn't normal, at least in my experience, for a mother to encourage a young lady to have overnight guests, and especially when she is still in high school. And it's somewhat conflictive behavior with a mother who is supporting her daughter's transition to college.</p>

12

<p>This may be one of the hardest things you have to do--but I think you have to give it time and hope that your son, who sounds very bright, will eventually do what is best for himself. If you lay out conditions, it is going to affect your relationship with your son and bottom line, he has done what he needs to do to go to a top school. Hopefully, when he is on campus he will see there is so much more out there as you have envisioned for him.</p>

<p>I have one son who dated high school sweetheart all through college (different schools) and is now married to her. Difference there is that they both had large groups of friends, were involved in their respective schools and looked around to see if this was really the relationship they wanted.</p>

<p>My D. left for college, leaving behind a clinging, controling bf of 2 years whose family was much like the one you describe of son's girlfriend. The relationship went on through her fresh. year, but she broke it off prior to soph year. As it turns out she was wanting to end it a long, long time before, but didn't know how to do it without a scene and without hurting his family. Of course I wish we had known that as we were much like you and fearful that she would come home to go to school or drop out.</p>

<p>2nd son left a girlfriend when he went to school. Her parents practically had them planning a wedding. She made his life miserable and pulled many manipulative stunts (often when he was the busiest academically) in order to get his attention. He finally broke it off around Christmas, but she still tries to maintain contact. I try to listen to him, point out some of the games being played, but tell him that it is his life and he needs to decide what makes him happy and what makes him stressed and unhappy--then act on it accordingly. </p>

<p>If you try to tell your son what to do, it will be your fault if he follows your advice and regrets it and you both will be miserable. If he doesn't follow your advice, he will be forced to keep things from you if he still sees her or he will resent you running his social/emotional life. As CGM said, I would though have a heart to heart about birth control and decisions that could end up keeping him from reaching his goals.</p>

<p>Good luck. I wish you the best. Wasn't it easy when they were 2?</p>

13

<p>I agree partially with the above posters. You cannot make your son divorce his girlfriend :D I say divorce because, indeed, they sound married, complete with nasty mother-in-law!
I think that you can issue ultimatums involving financial aid, but not directly about the girlfriend. You can make him join extracurricular activities and make him to get good grades (after all--the girl clearly hasn't stopped your son from achieving in high school.) Eventually he will lose interest in her--it's inevitable. Or she will lose interest in him.</p>

14

<p>The idea of parents setting specific conditions for financial support -- such as not attending the same school that the girlfriend attends, choosing a specific college, or choosing a specific major -- makes me uncomfortable. It puts the parent in the position of making life choices that young adults should be making for themselves. Also, it risks alienating the young person permanently.</p>

<p>Besides, are you really that sure that you're right and your son is wrong?</p>

<p>(Full disclosure: The author of this post has been married for 30 years to someone she met while still in high school. If my parents -- or his parents -- had fought the situation the same way you are considering fighting it, they would never have known their grandchildren. The younger generation can play hardball, too.)</p>

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<p>i have a long distance boyfriend who i've been going out with since junior year of high school (i'm now going to be a junior in college). Although we went to the same hs, his family moved once he graduated. My parents were initially worried that I would not make friends at my university or would not join activities. I feel that their judgment was misplaced, and I did not appreciate feeling judged all the time, although takling about your concerns once or twice might be in order. For what its worth, I feel that I have a healthy social life at school. You're not in class for many hours of the day, so there is lots of time to hang out with friends during the week. I am also involved in several extracurricular activities. I see him about twice a month, and we switch off who visits whom. We go to school about 2-3 hours apart. My parents were initially worried that I visited too often, but I don't think that thats the case. You'd be surprised how many people are busy doing their own things over the weekends, whether traveling with an extracurricular group, visiting friends/having friends visit, catching up on hw, or other activities. I also found that being away from all my friends on my hall who were distractions allowed me more time to study on the weekends, lessening the need to do so during the week, and freeing up more time to go out or just hang out during the week, as did all the time spent on the train. </p>

<p>If you push your son away from his girlfriend, he may rebel and transfer to be with her, which would not accomplish what you want. Instead, support their relationships and visits on certain conditions., such as GPA. I find it hard to believe that your son could not make friends at his college, or would forgo all social opportunities. There is just too much time to not interact socially, as well as the fact that I can't see anyone who would be happy not having their own friends nearby and to have to rely on a single person for all of their social needs.</p>

16

<ul>
<li>Should I become proactive in this situation? </li>
</ul>

<p>No, anything you do is likely to make things worse -- you will only succeed in alienating your kid and driving him closer to his girlfriend. Worse case scenario: your son moves out of your house this year and into girlfriend's house. Obviously from what you say, gf's mom will welcome him. If he is turning 18 any time during the year, this is a very real possibility - once he hits age 18, there is nothing you can do to stop him.</p>

<ul>
<li>Should I set conditions for my financial support now at the start of the application process? </li>
</ul>

<p>Yes, but they shouldn't have anything to do with his relationships. But do set conditions as far as expected GPA & yearly progress. It's his responsibility to balance his social life and academic obligations, not yours -- but if you are worried that he is going to slack off, simply letting him know that you won't support him if the GPA falls below a specified minimum will get the message across. Be fair --don't set unreasonably high expectations -- but I think if your real concern is that he won't devote enough time to his studies, then the conditions you set should focus on that. </p>

<ul>
<li>For instance, should I make it clear that I will not pay for him to attend the same college his girlfriend attends?</li>
</ul>

<p>No -- that isn't going to make a difference anyway, since you've said they are going to be calling and traveling to see one another in any case. In fact, they may be more likely to drift apart on a large university campus than if each was attending a small college in a different community. More distractions at the large school; more likelihood that their differing interests will lead them apart; and more likehihood that they will stick around on weekends and be a part of campus life. Let your son choose the school he wants to attend. </p>

<ul>
<li>Should I make ending this relationship a condition of my financial support to attend a good private school? </li>
</ul>

<p>Not unless you really want your son to attend a public university. If you set an ultimatum that requires your son to choose between the girlfriend and you, he's going to pick the girlfriend. Right now he cares about her a lot more than he cares about you. (I know that's hard to accept, but such is the nature of adolescence and love). </p>

<ul>
<li>I have friends who have told their college age children that financial support was dependent on attending a certain college, or choosing a certain major, and all seems to have work out OK.</li>
</ul>

<p>Well, I don't think that is such a good idea either, but at least that is logically related to the academics. That's not the same as putting limits on friendships and relationships. If you didn't like this girl, the time for stopping things was back when they were in 7th grade -- there is no way you are going to change things at this point. </p>

<p>** Should I pay to send my son to a top level university if his commitments restrict his full participation there?</p>

<p>If he broke up with this girlfriend and met a new girl at college, wouldn't the problem be the same? It probably would be more time-consuming/distracting to be pursuing a new relationship at college than sustaining an old one where both kids are settled in. </p>

<ul>
<li>Put differently, should I pay to open doors to his future if he maintains a future that is already dedicated?</li>
</ul>

<p>Well, if your goal is to maintain lifelong control over him, then no, you shouldn't pay. You should let him know now that he needs to establish financial independence if he wants personal freedom. With his grades & test scores he probably can get a full ride academic scholarship at a public university or less prestigous college or LAC. If he's a spineless cad who is willing to drop his girlfriend of 5 years because he wants his Daddy's money, then you will get what you want.</p>

<p>But I'd be willing to bet that he will choose the girl over parental edict. Most likely he and the girlfriend will choose to attend a lesser state university together and probably will choose early marriage as well, unless they elect to simply shack up together. It won't take them long to figure out that at most universities, it is cheaper to live off campus together and prepare their own food than to live in a dorm with a meal plan; and that it is unduly expensive and inconvenient to pay for space in 2 separate rooms if they end up sleeping in the same bed every night.</p>

17

<p>I had a three year relationship that ended a year before college, but basically continued without a title until I left. My ex got really clingy after I left and would call me 24-7, especially on nights when he knew I'd be out and seeing other guys, which was obviously the case, since I'd been single for over a year and made it quite clear that we'd never get back together. He wasn't really very mentally stable and would call up asking where I was, who I was with, what I was doing at 2AM when I didn't pick up, calling me a slut and a whore, etc. etc. I told him to go get some so he could stop being a jealous psychopath, but that didn't really work. He then told me that we could not continue speaking unless I was his girlfriend. I obviously said that I'd never date him again, since I would have loved for him to stop calling. He said he was going to visit and stuff, but that fell through after I made it painfully clear that I wanted nothing to do with him and wouldn't really say anything on the phone when he called, so I could end the conversation as quickly as possible. He made a few pathetic attempts to speak to me after we had a big fight, in which he told me to die and some other glorious stuff. He would IM me and ask me to return items of his I'd long forgotten about, so I had my brother leave them outside my house in a plastic bag. He then wrote me some e-mail a few weeks later apologizing and trying to reconcile, but I was not interested. I thought he was gone after that, but he tried to contact me when I was home on fall break. At this point, I had no respect for him, so I just verbally destroyed him and told him everything that was on my mind about him. He hasn't spoken to me since then, since I definitely immasculated him hardcore. My friends have asked him if he still speaks to me and he replied that he "[Didn't] want to ****ing talk about it". Needy people are really hard to get rid of.</p>

18

<p>posted on the parents forum as well:</p>

<p>i have a long distance boyfriend who i've been going out with since junior year of high school (i'm now going to be a junior in college). Although we went to the same hs, his family moved once he graduated. My parents were initially worried that I would not make friends at my university or would not join activities. I feel that their judgment was misplaced, and I did not appreciate feeling judged all the time, although takling about your concerns once or twice might be in order. For what its worth, I feel that I have a healthy social life at school. You're not in class for many hours of the day, so there is lots of time to hang out with friends during the week. I am also involved in several extracurricular activities. I see him about twice a month, and we switch off who visits whom. We go to school about 2-3 hours apart. My parents were initially worried that I visited too often, but I don't think that thats the case. You'd be surprised how many people are busy doing their own things over the weekends, whether traveling with an extracurricular group, visiting friends/having friends visit, catching up on hw, or other activities. I also found that being away from all my friends on my hall who were distractions allowed me more time to study on the weekends, lessening the need to do so during the week, and freeing up more time to go out or just hang out during the week, as did all the time spent on the train.</p>

<p>If you push your son away from his girlfriend, he may rebel and transfer to be with her, which would not accomplish what you want. Instead, support their relationships and visits on certain conditions., such as GPA. I find it hard to believe that your son could not make friends at his college, or would forgo all social opportunities. There is just too much time to not interact socially, as well as the fact that I can't see anyone who would be happy not having their own friends nearby and to have to rely on a single person for all of their social needs.</p>

19

<p>A lot of presumption here.
Contradiction too
While on the one hand I see acknowledgement of what your son has acheived, I also see a disbelief that he knows what he wants for himself as a young adult. How to make his own decisions and learn from them.</p>

<p>If parents have done their job in supporting their kids emotional, social, physcial and intellectual growth, from birth to 18, they can be confident, that they can ease back after high school graduation, as a safety net perhaps, but letting their kids take the rudder for their own lives.</p>

<p>If they are able and it is appropriate for kids to attend college or other further education ,and the parents can help with that, that is great, and appreciated.
But trying to force your soon to be adult child into behaving into * how you think he should* is demeaning and demoralizing.
Even if you were successful into manipulating your son, to abide by your stringent rules, even though I realize that you have a lot of apprehension about his moving into the adult world, I think you would win the battle but lose the war.
People need autonomy to make their own mistakes.
Heaven knows we have all made enough of our own.</p>

20

<p>The author of this post has been married for 30 years to someone she met while still in high school. If my parents -- or his parents -- had fought the situation the same way you are considering fighting it, they would never have known their grandchildren</p>

<p>I posted on the other thread where I assume this will be moved but ya here too.
My husband broke up with a long time girlfriend that his parents adored just a few weeks before he met me.
He apparently didn't want to be involved with anyone but I was just too irresistable! ;)
But seriously, his parents thought, that I had broke them up, and never ever forgave me for it.</p>

<p>We lived together several years before we got married( 25 years this past spring)- something that they hated- I was pregnant when we got married ( although I had a miscarriage a day later) something that they gave me a lot of grief about ( which started to make sense, when I found out 15 years later than my MIL had been pregnant with my husband when * she * got married.):eek: * Hypocrites are always the most judgemental*</p>

<p>They haven't ever been able to let go, and resentful angry people are no fun to be around, so we see them about once a year....maybe, even though we live in the same city.</p>