<p>Well I said it would seem weird IF it was true that Michigan was better academically. If I was under the false assumption that PA was the ONLY indicator of academic strength, Michigan and Northwestern would be equal. (0.1 difference is insignificant) – Luckily for me, that is not the case.</p>
<p>So, in conclusion… choose the college with the best fit for you! Where could you picture yourself for 4+ years? Don’t worry about what me or others say about the academics (the difference is insignificant). You can succeed at either college and both have national prestige (although in this area of the country NW is considered much more prestigious).</p>
<p>Ahmedkhokar. You really shouldn’t go to Michigan. You seem to be under the impression that other schools are better academically like W&M, UVA, and NU. They are in fact all peers. NU, not NW, is not “considered MUCH more prestigious” than Michigan even in Chicago. You seem to like to use superlatives a lot to express your opinions.</p>
<p>rjkofnovi, ahmed is just another USNEWS-obsessed high schooler (no offense, Ahmed, I think you’re a good guy). There really is no reason to try to convince him, or the hundreds of other kids that come on this board, otherwise. They just can’t fathom the thought of a major publication like USNWR being wrong.</p>
<p>But, let’s face it, when it’s all said and done, the opinions that really matter are of those in academia. And according to them, Michigan and Northwestern are peers in every sense of the word.</p>
<p>Well, that won’t be a concern, because I visited this weekend and got to sit in for a class. Although I really enjoyed it, the visit didn’t change my mind. As for saying they are peers… I completely agree with that. You, however, seem to imply that Michigan is better than ANY public school for everything and that it gets no slacks in any ranking. (How can you complain about being top 5 public and top 25 overall?!)</p>
<p>Also, CCrunner, you may think what you want but I have said several times that rankings aren’t the only thing that matter to me. (Hello… I’m choosing W&M over U-Mich with 20k scholarship? for PREMED). What I believe is that fit matters so much more than insignificant differences in major rankings AS WELL AS overall college rankings. What I said was that NU is widely considered academically superior, which was more a reference to its prestige than the academic quality. I also said several times, if you took the time to read, that the academic difference, if there is one, is not significant. I said go with the best fit… I stand by that statement. </p>
<p>But if I can’t bring up rankings to back my statement up (it’s CONSIDERED academically better by many i.e. widely)when it’s actually relevant, then you certainly shouldn’t be able to use one criterion from the rankings which happens to be the most influential in the rankings themselves to back yourself up.</p>
<p>I have lived in Virginia for over five years, and I have always wanted to go to Michigan. When I’d mention it to other students (and even teachers) they never really recognized the academic quality or prestige of the University. I have lived in West Virginia, SoVA, NoVA, and now in Charlottesville, and still the people I talk to don’t recognize the prestige of Michigan. However, when I brought up that I was thinking about applying to Northwestern, people always told me it was an excellent, prestigious school. </p>
<p>This is based on my own experiences, and I don’t know if it’s true all around the country. I’m not saying it’s fair that Michigan isn’t recognized as much as it should be in this region (neither are many other excellent public schools here like UVA and William and Mary given proper recognition in other regions), but it’s sadly true (from my experiences). You are right that it was wrong for me to use “superlatives” in my descriptions to describe the general public when it only applied to my area (or just my personal experiences). </p>
<p>However, prestige is something that varies across the country with very few exceptions, and tends to favor private schools heavily. You can’t really measure it, so it’s wrong for me to say that i’m sure NU’s prestige is higher than Michigan’s. However, it’s equally wrong for you to say that you are sure they are equal (because from people I have PERSONALLY talked to in DC, VA, and Maryland, NU is just more recognizable as a great academic university). </p>
<p>Again, with respect to the USN rankings, I don’t value them very highly. However, for me at least, that also holds true about the undergraduate majors’ ranks. It seems that people on this forum don’t value overall rankings at all (which is a good thing) but cling to majors rankings that favor their college (which isn’t a good thing). If you are going to de-value rankings (they aren’t completely insignificant), then be consistent.</p>
<p>Like I said in many earlier posts, stay in Virginia and good luck to you. You continue to ■■■■■ around the Michigan boards looking for validation. IMO Michigan is a finer school overall academically than UVA and W&M. You are entitled to yours.</p>
<p>I will stay in Virginia because my top choice is William and Mary, and the decision isn’t based solely on academics. Don’t criticize my choice just because it’s not Michigan, because I have no doubt it’s academically similar to Michigan. This forum has very little weight in the decision, if that is what you are trying to suggest. I don’t want validation, I’m extremely happy with my choice. I’m also really happy that I was accepted by four great schools (even given a scholarship by two of my top choices).Practice what you preach and stay away from the UVA forums repeatedly saying :
“UVA IS OVERRATED!!! ITS NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL AS MICHIGAN” </p>
<p>It just doesn’t look good for you.</p>
<p>^^^^^^^He states as he keeps posting over and over in this forum…</p>
<p>Ahmed, your point of view is obviously welcomed, but it is wrong. My families ties to DC and Northern Virginia are strong too. My parents lived there from 1956-1971. My sisters and I lived there from 1984-1993. My father’s cousins have been there since the late 40s. My father and sister are both Georgetown alums. My sister worked in the State department. My father’s cousins attended Columbia and worked for the IMF and World Bank, both in very senior roles. All of those relatives recommended that I attend Michigan over their own alma matter. Generally speaking, Michigan is very highly regarded in DC and Northern Virginia. You make it seem like Michigan is not that respected in those areas. That does not fit my own experience. </p>
<p>Northwestern, another school I was admitted into, was just as highly regarded as Michigan by the people mentioned above.</p>
<p>The difference is I don’t attack Michigan. You go to the UVA forums repeatedly saying it’s way overrated. What is the point of that? It’s just not true. I think Michigan is an excellent school, as i’ve said repeatedly (I’m not sure why you selectively forget), but I just think UVA and William and Mary are fairly similar academically. Similar enough that the difference in fit easily outweighs the minimal academic differences.</p>
<p>I’m not wrong. That’s your opinion, and you cannot speak for everyone in D.C. or Virginia. As for my opinion, I don’t intend to act as if nobody considers Michigan a great school here. I just don’t think it receives nearly the level of recognition or prestige as it does in the midwest (Same with UVA and W&M here compared to other regions). You may disagree, and that’s fine, but it certainly doesn’t mean I’m wrong. I’m speaking from personal experiences only, and so are you. There is no real concrete evidence for ranking prestige of academically similar universities. It depends more on preference and region than anything else.</p>
<p>Ahmed, I was no stating an opinion. I was stating the opinions of over 50 family members and very close family friends who have lived in DC and its MD and VA suburbs since the late 1940s. Most of those people have degrees from Georgetown, UVa, UNC and several Ivy League universities. Not one of them has a degree from Michigan, so if there is a bias, it would be in favor of East Coast schools, not Michigan. Their opinion of Michigan was based on the sheer number of Michigan alums who occupied some of the highest posts in Government and private corporations in the DC area. I don’t know where you got your information that Michigan is viewed as a second rate university in the DC area. From all my observations, DC residents place Michigan on the same level as elite East coast institutions. I definitely agree with you that there are regional biases. In most parts of the East Coast, UVa would have greater reputation than Michigan. But the DC area and the NYC area are two clear expections where Michigan’s reputation equals UVa’s.</p>
<p>At any rate Ahmed, you have attacked Michigan on this forum for a while now. Saying that it is not as well regarded as UVa and Northwestern qualifies as an attack. I do not follow Novi’s posts closely, but I have only seen him post a couple of times (on just one thread) on the UVa forum…far less than you have on the Michigan forum. And if I recall, he never said UVa was overrated on the UVa forum. He only said UVa was overrated in the general forum or in the Michigan forum…and only in response to posters who claimed that UVa was better than Michigan (or other universities) because it was ranked 1-4 spots higher on the USNWR. In short, contrary to your claims that you like Michigan and that you are considering attending it, it is pretty clear that deep inside you have a serious disregard for the University. I do not yet understand your motive, but your feelings are clear.</p>
<p>I don’t know why you are making this UVA is better than Michigan in DC argument. I live in DC metro, if anything, it’s actually exactly the opposite. Michigan’s reputation in Michigan is not as good as it is in DC, same for Virginia, UVA’s reputation is better if you travel outside of nova, i don’t know why exactly, but i think because of the sheer number of grads around and stickers, and apparel, people take it for granted.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with that. I think UVA’s reputation in Northern Virginia is better than in anywhere in the country. Same with U-Mich’s reputation in Michigan and the surrounding areas (Midwest).</p>
<p>Also, to Alexandre, that really isn’t a fair comparison. Novi several times said that Michigan is a much better school academically than UVa. I disagree. Never did I say Michigan was underrated, or that it wasn’t strong in every category that is important. Saying Northwestern is considered more prestigious from my personal experiences is not attacking the university of Michigan at all. Would saying that Harvard, Yale, or Chicago have more prestige than Michigan be an attack on the university? I don’t think so. Prestige is overrated as a factor in college decisions, even if Michigan’s matches or exceeds that of Northwestern in any part of the country (what else can I say? It simply hasn’t been the case for me personally). I, also, have talked to many people that have lived in DC for decades and have (the vast majority of them at least) degrees from Ivy league schools, and they tell me that there are no significant academic differences. (In other words, go with the best fit, which I have said several times) On top of that, I’m also making a college decision between these three schools right now, while novi is not. He is making odd assumptions about academic quality and trying to provoke responses from people on the other forum.</p>
<p>I’m trying to get a fair perspective, as members of each forum tell me to go to their respective schools because of superior academic and social opportunities. People from WM forum tell me the level of personalization with professors is unparalleled. The People from UVA forums tell me that UVA campus is one of the most beautiful in the country, and that the college town feel is excellent. The people on this forum say that U-Mich is academically and socially better than the other two universities. What it all comes down to is where the student can see him/herself for four years.</p>
<p>There is no point in continuing this specific argument, because I have already made a decision to attend William and Mary this fall. I don’t need any more comparisons between overall rankings and/or majors’ rankings. </p>
<p>To the original poster, please think carefully about your decision. There are not any significant academic differences, so you should go with the university that you can see yourself attending for four years. You really can’t go wrong, because both will offer amazing college experiences both academically and socially.</p>
<p>“Also, to Alexandre, that really isn’t a fair comparison. Novi several times said that Michigan is a much better school academically than UVa.”</p>
<p>Academically, Michigan is indeed better than UVa (though not by much). Except for Business and the Humanities, UVa simply does not have the same fire power that Michigan has. That said, in terms of overall undergraduate excellence, UVa is as good as Michigan. </p>
<p>“Saying Northwestern is considered more prestigious from my personal experiences is not attacking the university of Michigan at all.”</p>
<p>It is because NU is not more prestigious than Michigan. You are entitled to say that you personally feel that it is, but overall, there is not evidence that would prove which school is more prestigious. </p>
<p>“Would saying that Harvard, Yale, or Chicago have more prestige than Michigan be an attack on the university?”</p>
<p>Harvard and Yale are more prestigious, so saying that they are more prestigious would not be an attack. Chicago is not more prestigious than Michigan, although in some circles, particularly the highly intellectual, Chicago may have an edge.</p>
<p>“Prestige is overrated as a factor in college decisions, even if Michigan’s matches or exceeds that of Northwestern in any part of the country (what else can I say? It simply hasn’t been the case for me personally).”</p>
<p>Actually, Ahmed, prestige is VERY important. It is one of the three most important factors to consider. Academic excellence is a given, non-egotiable and therefore not even worth discussing. Fit, finances and prestige are the most important factors when chosing a college.</p>
<p>
Then you also disagree with people in academia who rank Michigan(4.5) better than UVa(4.3). </p>
<p>People in academia also think that in most areas, Michigan has more established professors and better research (and probably better facilities). That’s what USNWR graduate departmental rankings measure.</p>
<p>Now you may argue that UVa is more undergraduate focus or has a better teaching environment or whatever … but you can’t say that UVa is better academically.</p>
<p>Note that you can’t say that UVa has a better student body either; UVa’s SAT range is the same as Michigan’s, while its selectivity rank is lower (UVa #28 vs. Michigan #18).</p>
<p>"Then you also disagree with people in academia who rank Michigan(4.5) better than UVa(4.3). "</p>
<p>Actually GoBlue, Michigan’s PA this year was 4.4. At any rate, I don’t think a 4.4 is significantly better than a 4.3 or a 4.2 or significantly worse than a 4.5 or 4.6. That said, I don’t think the PA measures academic excellence as much as it measures overall quality of undergraduate education. </p>
<p>“Now you may argue that UVa is more undergraduate focus or has a better teaching environment or whatever … but you can’t say that UVa is better academically.”</p>
<p>There is no evidence that UVa has a greater undergraduate focus. In fact, undergraduate focus has to be the most meaningless claim anybody can make when it comes to universities. I obviously think that faculty should care about undergraduates, but the fact is, very few universities claim lay claim to being more undergraduate focused than others. My friends have attended all sorts of universities, and they all agree that undergraduate focus is a sham. And my friends have attended academic powerhouses such as MIT, Cornell, Stanford, Cal, Princeton, Northwestern, Duke and other Michigan peers.</p>
<p>Thanks for the correction. I looked up the wrong file.</p>
<p>
I didn’t say I agree with it. Just wanna point out that there is no evidence that UVa is better “academically”.</p>