Help me choose schools! (low grades, high everything else)

College Search & Selection
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<p>Paiev, I’d love to help but you only deferred the answer that is critical: How much can your family pay? </p>

<p>There are 30 schools, almost all LACs, that would possibly be appropriate to you but most families could not afford them.</p>

<p>You cannot possibly make an intelligent college application list without having a SOLID budget for out of pocket expediture by your family. $10k? $20k? $30k? dare I even go into rich family territory with this progression? How much cash can your family actually pay, and what is your EFC. Then, are you and they willing to go into bigtime debt to finance what cannot be paid out of pocket? Without answers to those question, I don’t know how anyone can help you refine a list.</p>

22

<p>i think high school transcript and gpa is the most important part of the application so… yeah</p>

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<p>I apologize for not having any information about my family’s financial status. I’ve asked my mother about it a few times, but she’s very reluctant to tell me anything. She seems to think that I should find schools first and worry about the cost later. I’m not deliberately withholding information, I’m afraid I just don’t have an answer. Here’s what I know:</p>

<p>-My parents are divorced. My father’s a philosophy professor, my mother’s a lawyer at a nonprofit.
-We’re neither wealthy nor poor. We don’t have a big house or a nice car. However, we’ve never really wanted for anything.
-My sister has lymphoma. This is relevant because it means that my mom hasn’t been able to work as much lately (resulting in both less income and less job security). I’m not clear on how much the treatment costs but apparently our insurance covers most of it.</p>

<p>Yeah, that’s the best I’ve got. Sorry I don’t know any more.</p>

24

<p>Well…</p>

<p>I can understand some parents reluctance…</p>

<p>Do you know if your dad will contribute? If not, ask him how much he can pay each year.</p>

<p>She seems to think that I should find schools first and worry about the cost later.</p>

<p>As for your mom…This could be a very dangerous situation. Either she has some means/plans to pay for your college or she doesn’t. If she doesn’t, then you could end up in a REALLY BAD situation next fall.</p>

<p>Perhaps your mom doesn’t realize that your dad’s income will also get considered at some schools. Maybe she thinks your dad will pay or she thinks you can borrow all the money (student loans have changed in recent years). Whatever the situation is, you can’t just assume that the costs will somehow get covered next year. </p>

<p>If you naively just apply to schools without some financial safeties, you could end up with a handful of acceptances in the spring that you can’t afford.</p>

<p>Anyway…If you can’t get your mom to have an forthcoming conversation about how much she can pay each year towards your college costs, and your dad won’t pay for a lot of your costs, then protect yourself.</p>

<p>BTW…since your dad is a prof, do you get free tuition at HIS college?</p>

25

<p>I’m not sure what school you can get into, but I do recommend that you look at schools which have a flexible curriculum. Avoid schools with a core program. You want to be able to pick and choose the courses that interest you so you don’t have the same problem you had in high school. I’m sure you would thrive at MIT where you can self-study, take the exam and pass a course, but getting in is another matter. Look carefully at the courses required for your major at each school. For example, at Rose-Hulman for a degree in CS, it says nothing about needing to take a foreign language. The distribution requirements merely state you must take courses in the Humanities and Social Sciences school. These courses could be something like an economics course or a philosophy course on logic or a course on science fiction - things which might interest you. This might not be the case at your state university. You might be required to take general world history plus a foreign language.</p>

26

<p>To be clear, my mom is aware of how expensive college can be. I’ll make sure that I apply to places I can afford, by asking her if we can afford them if nothing else. As for my dad, I have no idea whether or not he’s paying or how much. I’ll try to find out somehow I guess- though I only talk to him once a week, and not for very long, so I’m not sure how I’ll ask him without sounding terribly tacky.</p>

<p>I’m not necessarily convinced that I need to avoid places with a strong core curriculum. Even though my application looks very skewed towards math/science, I actually enjoy learning a pretty diverse set of things, including quite a few topics in the humanities. Ironically, one thing I was looking forward to doing in college was taking some language courses, since it’s too hard to stay motivated to teach myself and my high school spanish classes were atrocious. </p>

<p>And since my state school was mentioned, I’ll just add that if I went to Rutgers I’d start with around 60 credits, between APs and community college courses. Furthermore, I would only have to take an introductory linguistics course to satisfy the non-major graduation requirements (I’m making a couple assumptions, but they’re very reasonable). When I realized that I thought it was pretty interesting, and it definitely made me look at Rutgers in a new light.</p>

27

<p>By not discussing this with you, your Mom is treating you like a child… and that doesn’t work because this is a very adult decision you must participate in.</p>

<p>Your Mom is the problem here. Here’s my GUESS based on the little you’ve posted:</p>

<p>1) your Mom cannot afford an LAC, but is reluctant to reveal this to you.
2) your Mom is hoping your Dad will pony up, but is unwilling to discuss with him to create a joint plan to finance your education.</p>

<p>Since your Mom in some ways appears to be acting like a child by not openly discussing with you, you’re going to have to take the lead on this and discuss this explicitly with each of your parents separately. If that doesn’t result in clarity, then ask them to meet with you together and let the three of you come up with some plan.</p>

28

<p>Even if you can’t get free tuition where your Dad teaches, many universities will pay a portion of the tuition for professor’s children at other schools. Definitely check that out. But also go back to the idea of LAC’s that want high scoring students and will give merit aid. Maybe from #35 or so down—I’m not sure. Lafayette, Conn College, Union, Gettysburg. What about Bard? Beloit, Ursinus. But the idea of checking how much of a core or set requirements they have is a good one.</p>

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<p>Harvey Mudd in California. Small, less distraction, high in math, CS and engineering.</p>

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<p>Paiev -</p>

<p>Your dad is a professor. He is fully aware that college is expensive. He should also be fully aware that you are old enough to be applying to college this year. Talk to him about the whole process, ask his advice, ask whether he thinks his college/university would be a good match for you, ask if he knows anyone in the admissions office who can meet with you and give you some general advice about how to proceed, and ask him about the money situation. Don’t be afraid of this issue.</p>

31

<p>With regard to the UK it is true that they are interested in SATs, APs, IB etc, not GPA. (BTW in the UK your results in APs, IB etc are what we would call grades, just to avoid terminological confusion.) The more prestigious the university the more they will be interested in APs or IB rather than SATs. For both maths and computer science they would want to see an explicitly maths-related AP - is it calculus? With regard to the ADD discussion, study at English universities is focussed 100% on the subject you were admitted to study so no getting bored on core curriculum requirements.</p>

<p>There is of course effectively no financial aid for undergrad study in the UK</p>

32

<p>“There is of course effectively no financial aid for undergrad study in the UK”</p>

<p>Right. As best as I could calculate the cost of pursuing a BA in mathematics and computer science at Christ Church/Oxford last year was about $25,900 for overseas students last year (tuition, fees, room and board). That’s about $41,110 US. Add in the cost of books, personal expenses, travel, etc. and you are paying about what you would as a full-pay student at many American LACs.</p>

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<p>Your dad is a professor. He is fully aware that college is expensive. He should also be fully aware that you are old enough to be applying to college this year. Talk to him about the whole process, ask his advice, ask whether he thinks his college/university would be a good match for you,</p>

<p>Happymom is very right. Since your dad is a prof, the best way to approach this issue is to first start talking about schools and the application process. Then, bring up the subject of how much can he contribute each year. If your dad is evasive and doesn’t want to give advice or talk about the subject, then that will be a clear sign that he doesn’t want to pay.</p>

<p>Does your mom ever speak to your dad? If so, she could also bring it up, but she would have to do so in a polite and respectful manner to get the best possible answer. </p>

<p>Your dad may be hesitant to pay much because of your grades. Parents sometimes worry that it won’t be worth spending a lot on a student who doesn’t get good grades. </p>

<p>I’'m sure that there are some schools that will accept you even with a sub 3.0 GPA, but the problem is probably going to be cost is your parents aren’t going to pay a lot.</p>

<p>What state school can you commute to if you had to?</p>

<p>Unfortunately, your GPA is going to hurt you big time for scholarships. </p>

<p>Is that your weighted GPA? Does that include all of your grades (PE, electives, etc)</p>

<p>Maybe someone here can recommend schools that give scholarships for test scores but don’t consider GPA (usually you have to be in high in both). </p>

<p>*1) your Mom cannot afford [college costs], but is reluctant to reveal this to you.</p>

<p>2) your Mom is hoping your Dad will pony up, but is unwilling to discuss with him to create a joint plan to finance your education.*</p>

<p>I think this is probably true. What kind of income does your mom have?</p>

<p>I’m looking to major in either mathematics or computer science (looking for more theoretical programs for both of these, especially the latter). My only real criterion for college is that I want the smartest peers I can find, which generally translates to “most prestigious I can get into”.</p>

<p>First of all…with your GPA, the word “prestigious” isn’t going to work. Many of the best schools automatically reject those with sub 3.0 GPAs.</p>

<p>However, a school doesn’t have to be prestigious for you to have smart classmates. Typically only smart kids major in math or comp sci, so even at a state school that has many average students on campus is still going to have very smart kids in those majors. So, your classmates will be smart.</p>

34

<p>Oh goodness, so many replies. Thanks everyone; all of your responses are helpful. I don’t think I can respond to everything so I’ll hit the easier points first.</p>

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<p>That’s why I said “most prestigious I can get into” instead of “top ten school”. When I was talking about prestige I meant “school A is more prestigious than school B if school A is generally considered ‘better’”. Replace the word “prestigious” with “better” if you like that more, or if that isn’t good I imagine USNWR rankings are a (rough) approximation of “better”.</p>

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<p>They might be smarter than the average student, but all students majoring in math or comp sci certainly aren’t equally smart. This comment referred more to the kinds of people I would interact with and become friends with anyway, not just those in my major (not having been to college I’m not sure how similar the two groups are). </p>

<p>Sorry if any of that came off as elitist (I don’t know if it did or not), it’s not meant to. </p>

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<p>Again, I don’t know. I think it’s high enough that we qualify for little or no merit aid (from what I’ve gathered), but it’s also worth noting that she says that property taxes and cost of living in general are high in NJ and that that isn’t taken into account for FA.</p>

<p>Regarding UK: I’ve done quite a bit of research on this so I’m pretty informed. Tuition + college fees is about 20,000 pounds and Oxford estimates you need 7,000 pounds for other living expenses. This comes in to about $43,000, and adding ~$3000 or so for travel puts it at $46,000 per year for all expenses. So yeah, that’s a lot. But the course is only three years, so it’s like paying $32,000 a year at an American school, and viewed this way the cost is more manageable. </p>

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<p>This is a good idea, thanks. The next time I talk to my dad (probably this weekend) I’ll try to do this.</p>

<p>Everything else was helpful, so thanks for the suggestions and advice everyone.</p>

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<p>*However, a school doesn’t have to be prestigious for you to have smart classmates. Typically only smart kids major in math or comp sci, so even at a state school that has many average students on campus is still going to have very smart kids in those majors. So, your classmates will be smart.</p>

<p>They might be smarter than the average student, but all students majoring in math or comp sci certainly aren’t equally smart. .</p>

<p>Sorry if any of that came off as elitist (I don’t know if it did or not), it’s not meant to.*</p>

<p>Of course all students within a tough major aren’t equally smart. But, the majority will certainly be smart enough that you will feel among peers. </p>

<p>Both of my boys had very high stats and a high GPA. They are at a state flagship. Their friends are smart and their classmates are smart. One is an Applied Math major and the other is a Chem Engineering major. Neither major is really do-able if you’re not smart.</p>

<p>This comment referred more to the kinds of people I would interact with and become friends with anyway, not just those in my major (not having been to college I’m not sure how similar the two groups are)</p>

<p>If you go to a school with an honors program, you will be within a community of smart kids. If you live in an honors dorm, that will further that. Many honors colleges will exclude you because of your GPA. I only know of one that will admit you simply based on your SAT alone…</p>

<p>People do often form friendships with those in their majors because they meet in classes, study groups, clubs related to the major, etc.</p>

36

<p>Hmm, it’s been two months since I posted in this thread and I still haven’t gotten terribly far. I’m going to bump it because I could still really use some help on coming up with a solid list.</p>

<p>First off, I got a copy of my transcript a while ago and my actual GPA. Turns out I was a bit off about my grades, I have nothing below a C on here. My GPA according to a normal calculation is 3.01. My school’s weighting system has our GPAs out of 5.175, and if you scale that to a 4.0 maximum my GPA becomes 3.23 “weighted”. The system is kind of silly though. </p>

<p>Regarding financial status, I have brought it up to my dad. He doesn’t talk with my mom at all so neither of us know what she can contribute. They have an arrangement of some kind which involves him paying a part of it, I don’t know how much. My mom has been pretty adamant about not discussing money.</p>

<p>Now some other stuff. I’ve been admitted to Edinburgh and Bristol in the UK. My Oxford interviews are in just under a week. I’m feeling fairly confident about Oxford, actually. I also have applications to Imperial and St. Andrew’s pending in the UK. In the USA, I’ve sent off an application to Rutgers so far and that’s it.</p>

<p>I’m trying to nail down a list of schools in the next few days so I can get working on the essays. Some that have been tossed around in conversation: Rose Hulman, Reed, Fordham, UChicago, URochester, Case Western, JHU, Emory, Vanderbilt, Tulane, NYU. If anyone has any comments on any of these, or on new schools, that would be great. </p>

<p>I am also considering readying applications to a bunch of top-notch schools (MIT, Caltech, Princeton, what-have-you) in case I get into Oxford, since I’ll be getting a decision from Oxford in around two weeks from now (so before the New Year for sure). Any comments on this? Is it even worth it, or are my chances of getting in to any of these schools so tiny that I shouldn’t even bother?</p>

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<p>Oh, and since I apparently can’t edit the above post, I’ll add one more thing that I forgot: first marking period I got Bs in Engineering, a BS research class thing, and Health. I got As in everything else (Calc, Physics, Creative Writing, English, Gym). I’m on track to get a B in my college sociology course (pretty disappointed, but the course is garbage and the tests are really poorly written).</p>

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<p>The fact that you are this late in getting your list finalized and getting apps in will just further the impression that you are a slacker and procrastinator that is extraordinarily bright. It is impossible to predict what will happen with these schools, but most will turn you down I think. Who knows, maybe one or two will think you were just bored and being at a top school will allow you to reach your potential. I think that is likely even true. I hope that works out for you, but apply to a safety or two anyway. Worst cast you go there and do well and transfer.</p>

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<p>oh please. Most applications are submitted right before midnight the day they’re due! The schools don’t judge the applicants based on when in the process the apps were submitted.</p>

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<p>They do when they see other signs that a student has issues in school, like this one with the very high test scores and low GPA. Besides, I wasn’t saying they will most likely turn him down because of his lateness, but rather because of his low GPA. It just doesn’t help him at all to keep falling into the same pattern.</p>