Just a thought . If your ultimate goal is to get your daughter into William and Mary as a transfer student , as well as receive sizable aid, you should be targeting less selective schools where her stats place her firmly in the upper 75% of the student body . She will have a greater chance at merit aid in addition to need based aid if she qualifies. She may also have a better chance of achieving a higher GPA which would make her more competitive for transfer . The caveat is many schools deadlines for merit opportunities was Dec 1, so it will be important to look at the deadlines for each school that you’re interested in to see if merit is even an option. The longer that you wait , opportunities for money disappear . That’s why it’s important to make a strategy now rather than later, and apply and see what happens is not a beneficial strategy . IMO. Another option is to consider a gap year and reapply to William and Mary .
@citymama9 Thanks for the reminder, I had heard that and will investigate!
@wisteria100 I do understand all that and was not surprised she didn’t get in but sad nonetheless. I had hoped they would see her higher 34 and 35 on the ACT eng & writing and think that as a history major, those #'s were good so it would offset the 29. Sigh.
@Spring16 Thank you for your kind and encouraging words. UR is her 1st choice now, but it seems a long shot but we’re going to try just the same! We are trying to make those connections and as she’s applying ED@ we hear back 2/15. she is working on a great spider essay and have her AP Eng teacher read over it, she had her do that for W&M too and she’s happy to help. I am hoping she will love it if she gets in and want to stay as the pain of another possible W&M rejection is stressful. They encouraged kids who were denied to call for advice which we did. They said she had excellent components of her app, just to keep her strong GPA, finish her spring senior sem w/ hard classes (she is) and try to keep grades good as most seniors fall off. She said to retake the ACT once she’s had the math (she had no thad algebra 2 when she took it) and to have a strong GPA wherever she goes. Also to get involved w/ the school. So we are seeing that as the end result but a large part of me is hoping she loves wherever she so she can mentally move on.
@carolinamom2boys Yes, I’m not sure how that will go, as I said above to Spring16, not sure if it’s the ultimate goal, I guess it is but hoping she loves another school and is happy elsewhere. What you said bout easier schools is what we have been discussing - UR is a better school than the others (UMW. JMU) but that means her GPA won’t be as strong to graduate however, if she gets in by some fluke, it’s a better education and a higher chance she’ll love the school based on some of it’s unique courses, study abroad and overall beauty of the school. I doubt she qualifies for merit aid at many of these schools, she does not at UR. Most say all applications are automatically evaluated for merit aid. The deadlines are 1/1 so we have to hurry and get these in. If we missed any merit aid that was due 12/1 then we missed it, nothing I can do, right? I am not waiting, I am trying to hurry but she can’t apply till she finished these essays, deadlines are soon so we’re rushing as it is. We are trying to decide strategy but that depends where she gets in. When I said apply and see what happens - what else can I do? Deadlines are 1/1 or 1/10 - she’s finishing essays. then we send and wait. We will see where she gets in and what the FA looks like. While we wait we will be deciding whether she should go to an easier school and have a higher GPA or go to the best school she can and work very hard, hoping to have a competitive GPA or hoping she loves it. If she can’t get into W&M she’d rather graduate w/ a degree from UR than UMW so she’d rather go to UR if she gets the chance I think. Turning down a great school for a lesser one in the hopes that she will get into a school in a year who already rejected her, I don’t know. I also don’t want her to decide to go to UR and not get in, which is a long shot. UR has much better merit aid than UMW, or JMU. If we decide that route, then it’s dependant upon her getting into UR. If she doesn’t it’s a mute point.
@Wilson98 She is thinking about AU but 29% admission and not as great for history. She is thinking though - so many schools to think about and we are so busy w/ Christmas, finals, now the apps due soon, this is a real stressful time. And she is still so sad…AU is definitely on the rise, as you say, my closest friend here, her daughter applied ED and is due to hear any day - we are all very hopeful she gets in! I’m afraid comparing every school to the colonial history of W&A is exactly what she is doing - they mainly pale in comparison. I wish she wouldn’t and she knows she can’t replicate it although I understand UMW is pretty close. She has studied architecture and these things are very important to her for some reason. I think Princeton is her other dream school but not any chance in a million she could get in there. She is considering a few schools that are not the look she is inspired by so is compromising just isn’t happy about it. GW & JMU are 2 that come to mind, GMU as well if she applies there and I think she will.
@cloudysmom One thing that may help you with UR is that South Carolina is an underrepresented state at UR. It lists the geographic breakdown of the freshman class which only has 4 SC kids, so that might help. Good luck and keep us posted.
@londondad. Wow, good to know, thank you! Are you finding this out thru the common data set thing? Is there a central place to get that info or do I go to each school website to find it? Thanks!
^ I found it by accident under “student profile” on the UR website. There is a map with little dots showing where all of the students come from. If you enlarge the map, it shows you every town represented by the current freshman class if you expand the left hand menu.
Thank you!
Another thought. If UR or JMU/MW (or another) don’t pan out - I’d guess because of financial reasons, not academic ones, Plan C could be to stay home for another year and commute to the local community college or another school that is affordable. Concentrate 100% on academics for the first semester and apply for transfer to W&M. I have no idea how W&M is with transfer FA though. But staying home for one year would be super cost effective and she would likely do really well, increasing her chances. I know she doesn’t want it and it’s not ideal. But like I mentioned earlier, my sister barely remembers her brief one year at Rutgers before she transferred to W&M. Claudia really does sound like a great fit for W&M, so I get that. she sounds a lot llike my own freshman D there. My D also did the NIAID program there which is why she also knew she wanted to go there. Luckily for us we are in-state. I wish you were too. IMHO, that was what W&M’s real problem was with admitting her…it’s just not fair. I have a S who will be graduating this year, wants to be an engineer and has zero desire to go to Va Tech and really no desire for UVa or any other Virginia school. So I’m in the same boat for him, applying OOS to other great state flagships and privates. He’ll probably end up having to pick Tech or UVA anyway once we see where he gets in and the FA offered. BTW - He had Clemson and USC on his initial long list, but took them off while watching media coverage of the primaries. Just too conservative for him, although he got lots of letters suggesting huge merit awards to go to those schools. Sigh, no such letters from UNC or UMich or Vandy. LOL
@kkmabo “Luckily for us we are instate.” Big difference here in terms of cost. I don’t see anything “unfair” about a public university giving admission preference and more aid to instate students. UVa and UNC are rare as publics for currently meeting need for OOS students. Even to potentially transfer to W & M, the OP’s daughter would still be OOS and I don’t believe they meet need for OOS students. JMU, UMW, GMU are also OOS. . UR is private and says they meet need so that could potentially work if the OP’s daughter is admitted. SC publics or privates that the daughter could possibly get need based or merit aid ( top of their applicant pool) could also work. Good luck to your son. If he gets into and has to pick UVa or VT in the end, he should be fine. Lots of kids from other states would love those options. The grass is always greener.
I have a feeling that if the OP’s daughter was full pay she would have been accepted. I truly believe that when applying OOS to most publics it helps to not need aid.
@kkmabo Thank you, she hates the idea but does know it could save $ so she is applying to the college of Charleston, which is great for history. I think her plan is to try and transfer but she needs to get her ACT up and math si such a struggle, not sure she can gt it up enough for W&m. She will try to do as well as she can and get involved in the school - all the things W&M told me to set her up for a better shot at transferring. Did you think the NIAHD program would help your sister (or was it ur D?) get in more than it did? I mean, I know it’s not the same admissions and they even say it has nothing to do with it but they also talk about taking your HS education as far as you can and it seems to me that earing 4 college credits for W&M while still in HS would certainly show that! How did your she set herself up well to transfer and does seh feel transferring is easier? Funny about your son, wanting to come to SC but having to stay in VA and my D possibly in the same situation! We should trade houses, lol! Although the conservative nature of SC is a huge reason my D wants to leave. Where we live around Charleston it is much more liberal and diverse but head in land and the state is sure red, esp for us, we moved here from Boston, lol. Thats great he got letters of merit awards but sorry they weren’t for the schools he wanted. D liked Chapel HIll 2nd choice but only 18% OOS there and harder than W&M so no really point in applying. We got a fee waiver so she might just for the heck of it though. Thank you for your nice post! And you are very lucky you live in a state with amazing schools!
@sevmom No, sadly W&M do not meet need for OOS. THe easier to get into schools in VA, UMW, JMU, GMU are great but don’t have a lot of aid to offer, although less $ than W&M. I do wish she could get in UVA or UNC but those schools are too hard OOS. UR would be perfect for aid, great school, beautiful, terrific history program and SA - she needs that pesky detail of being accepted, lol.
@citymama9 I think her ACT math scores likely kept her out a lot too but I do agree that needing a lot of aid can hurt, even at schools who say they are need blind. I thought W&M said that but not sure. We need aid so have to apply for it, I hear others getting great need based aid, just hope we can something like that too.
Not sure not being full pay would have been a factor here. The daughter was at the lower end with her ACT and is also a girl (and girls are VERY over represented in W & M’s applicant pool). She was denied, not deferred.
I believe the W & M admission office and financial aid offices work separately. At least they still did in 2010 (I found a post by an admissions rep there who said they read applications without regard to finances and that the offices are separate). Of course, the issue still with W & M would be more that they guarantee full need for IS but often gap OOS admits. So, W & M admissions could make an offer but a family may not feel the school is affordable when they see the financial aid package. That happens with many schools…
The UVa admissions rep who frequently posts here (Dean J) has been quite clear the admissions office is separate from the financial office). Unlike W & M though, UVa does meet full need for OOS as well as IS students.
@cloudysmom , Glad your daughter has decided to also apply to College of Charleston! Good luck with the UR application. You never know!
@sevmom … I know it’s a "first world " kind of problem to have such good choices in state in Virginia. I’m just hoping he wakes up some day and falls in love with Tech or UVa…(assuming of course that he gets in). So many of his classmates will/are going to those schools… I really can’t blame him to want to experience something different when he goes to college. He’s lived his whole life in Nova and there really is a whole other world out there to experience. HIs HS typically sends 70-75 to Tech and 50-55 to UVa. That’s a lot.
@cloudysmom … My sister transferred back in the late 80s after being waitlisted and then denied first time around. We did think that going to NIAID would help her application. That isn’t exactly why she went, but we thought it would look good at anyplace she applied. But it was being there that solidified to her that it was her #1 choice. She never looked back. She did have good stats though. I think you misread what I said (or maybe I miswrote) my son doesn’t want to go to any SC schools after watching the primaries. He’s a liberal minded person and it scared him off. He also applied to some in the Midwest and in the South, so that may be issues at some of the other schools he applied to. He’s going to have to figure out what he really wants. Not sure how to help him figure it out. He’s not great at introspection or talking about himself.
@kkmabo As someone who lives in the upstate of SC, I can assure you that things are not always as they appear on TV. A visit to both schools to make an informed decision may be helpful rather than relying on news media to make a decision IMO. But it truly is a personal decision to be made using any criteria a family chooses .
@sevmom W&M offer 1/4 tuition to OOS who fall under a certain income bracket, like we do. So we knew it’d be rough but would have done work study and a few grandparents would have helped, also Pell Grant & GSL so not ideal for sure but as its really a perfect fit for her, we were willing to try & make it happen. Trouble is now, the better VA schools are hard OOS, those schools have the best aid, the easier ones a notch below those, like JMU or UMW just aren’t in a position to offer as much aid. Then there’s UR, a private school so no 65% in state student rule, but hard to get in, so…we’re falling into that no mans land. She is applying CofC but will see where she gets in & what FA is offered where. UR is early decision but if she can get in there, she really wants to go. UVA is amazing with need but sooooo hard to get into…
@kkmabo I can’t blame your S for wanting to leave VA either, even with the amazing schools, I think it’s natural for some kids to want to experience new things, everyone’s different and some want to stay near home & some want to see something new. My D, as you know, sees it the way your son does. I reread and understand now, my D fell in love w/ W& M during NIAHD, just like ur sister did. I hoped it would help in admissions however, but not until after the program & she decided she had to go to W& M. SC in general is too conservative for us do I understand. I’m trying to help my daughter figure it out as well, she’s fairly introspective but gets overwhelmed and is unable to get going forward again.
My best friend of 8 years is a freshman at JMU, she is an OOS student from Rhode Island. She sounds similar to your daughter- she had a 30 on the ACT and was rejected from UVA. I thought I would add my own anecdote about my personal experience there, as I have visited her 3 times this semester.
I love JMU. I'm not applying there, (I'm a HS senior) but every weekend I've been able to have a different experience that I've really enjoyed. I sat in on a couple of my friends' classes (with permission, of course!) and found them really interesting and thought provoking. I sat in on an intro to philosophy class and I found it fascinating! After the class, my friend and I and few people from the class went to lunch and had a really thought provoking conversation about the lecture. My friend is also a part of the rock climbing club, and she took me to the UREC center to climb with some of her friends. This is obviously just a personal experience, but I didn't see slacker or second tier kids there.
The campus is kind of weird, it's completely bisected by a highway. The quad is gorgeous and everything is easily accessible with the buses. Overall, it feels very 'campus-y' and a great place to be. The food is actually pretty good too. From what I noticed it really isn't a suitcase school, the campus was always active the three weekends I stayed there. For what it's worth, my brother goes to VT and I prefer JMU- but that's personal preference.
CoC is a good school, it’s my mom’s alma mater. Your daughter and I sound similar- I considered applying, but my family is in Charleston and the environment is way too bible-belt conservative for me. I also really enjoyed W&M when I interviewed there, but didn’t bother applying because it would financially strain my family. I wouldn’t get too caught up in prestige. If your daughter tours JMU or MW and enjoys it, then who cares what US News says?
I hear back from Brown, my ED, tomorrow. If I’m not accepted then I will most likely attend Furman, which is a school I’ve loved for awhile. Furman is surprisingly not as conservative as I thought it would be, and is worth looking into. Best of luck to your daughter!
UNC is not going to be any easier to get in to unless you are NC natives and even then it is not much easier. U of R has become more popular in recent years and offers a lot for those just below the top.It is pretty tough to get into though overall not as difficult as UVA or W&M. UVA and W&M are your academic powerhouses. VT is an excellent school (I have kids at each)-lots of school spirit, alumni support and engineering expertise. Beautiful campus. Not much else to Blacksburg besides VT. UVA offers so much and has made significant capitol investments over the past decade. JMU-lots of school spirit. Good student camraderie. VCU-fine (brother went there). Mary Wash not as strong but they have been working to raise the bar there. GMU has a lot of commuter students so weekends aren’t the same as they are at more residential schools. Being close to DC, they have some great resources available.
GWU is a great school but it is a very different feel than somewhere like W & M because it is an urban campus. Being 3 blocks away from the White House and surrounded by national museums, the National Mall, the US Congress, and so on-the opportunities are limitless. Fin aid is unpredictable-sometimes they are tight and sometimes quite generous-so I wouldn’t rule them out. Our D attends and loves it. Georgetown is certainly the strongest in the DC area-and the hardest to get in to. Surrounded by fencing, it manages to feel more like a campus. American is a fall back school for many applying to Georgetown and GWU, so it is more competitive than ever to get in to by the sheer volume of number of applicants. Funny how that works. Pretty campus, close to Embassy Row.
Lehigh is a beautiful campus with a good feel. She wouldnt go wrong there, either.
So many options. Good luck weeding through them all!
@pineapple1203. Thanks so much fir the info, it really helps to hear from people who have experiences at these schools! How much dies being under the freeway impact the quality of campus life? Is it very loud? Do you have to walk u dear it e dry day or are there things on 1 side that aren’t going to be places you go each day, such as sports, gyms, etc. Charleston is too bible/conservative for us too so I understand. My D fell in love w/ W& M when she attended a summer class there, but she is applying to JMU and UMW, but might not be enough aid offered at those schools. You hear today about Brown awesome school, been there a few times as I lived in Bkston for years. Very liberal thinking so you’d love that. Stop back & tell ,e if you got in! Good luck! Furman is a great school too!