Help me compare VA. schools - UVA, W&M and UR

@cloudysmom UR is also a CSS Profile school and will want non custodial parent info. Do you think your D will want to pursue a graduate degree in history, or law school, etc? If that is the case it really makes sense to minimize undergrad debt. Particularly as a single parent, it is super important to protect your assets for retirement.

You are clearly a loving mom who wishes to make your daughter’s college dreams come true, but it is also an invaluable life lesson to teach her how to be smart with $$ and balance dreams with the financial reality you have.

Kids rarely have much of a clue about running a household, saving for retirement, etc. and how attempting to fund an expensive college might leave parents financially vulnerable. Cars break down, homes need unexpected repairs, appliances die, illness can prevent you from working, pension plans are becoming a rarity.

Do you have an emergency fund that is separate from your plan to pay for college? It is generally recommended to have at least 4-6 months of expenses saved to get through an emergency.

I have watched my mother in law struggle financially in retirement after using most of her home equity and savings to send her youngest D to an expensive private college, after a similar divorce situation to yours. My sister in law is wonderful person and is a dedicated social worker, but could have gotten her degree at one of many much cheaper, but very good public colleges in her home state, and her mom would be much more financially stable now. She struggles to keep up with home repairs and has little to no home equity to tap for them.

Please look very, very carefully at your long term finances and make sure you are not leaving yourself vulnerable, in an attempt to make your D’s college dreams come true. It is really hard to tell your child that their college dream is not affordable, we had to have that conversation with our 3 kids(4 years with 2 in college, not able to save enough, etc.), but there are many great schools which were affordable for us, and they found new dreams and are all doing/did great at good schools.

@cloudysmom As the mother of William Aiken Fellow at the Honors College at the College of Charleston, I can assure you that there’s not a strong sports focus at the school . There is no football , not extremely preppy and 60% female. I would not consider it a “crap school” , but you are entitled to your opinion. Many of his peers at the Honors College were accepted at the schools and even more selective schools that are on your radar .That being said , if your daughter knows people from school that she doesn’t care for, it’s probably not a good choice.

Perhaps American would be a good fit or Dickinson. From how you describe your D, and from the things she says she doesn’t want in a college, not sure UR is a fit. It’s got a preppy contingent, is a D1 school, so sports and in particular basketball is important, has Greek life that is a big component of the social scene, and while not a pure party school, does have a robust party scene. Don’t think anyone would describe it as a school for nerds. If she is pursuing ED2 there, driven by the reasoning that it is the best chance at a ‘prestige’ acceptance, vs a school that is a fit, she may be making a mistake.

Another thing to consider is OP reports being low income . Many schools have early Dec deadlines for merit opportunities, so they may have already been missed . Also a WGPA of 4.3 , rank of 11% and an ACT of 29 probably do not place her in the running for merit at the schools she’s targeting.

@VAOptimist I’m not sure that privates would consider an acceptance at an instate public a bargaining tool . She’d have a better opportunity using an acceptance at Wofford or Furman( both instate privates ) as a bargaining tool.

Be sure to run the NPC’s for any of these schools- Elon, American, Dickinson, JMU, etc. . Many schools are not going to meet full need and could expect lots of loans, including possibly hefty Parent Plus loans. No point in getting excited about a school , only to find out it is clearly not affordable.

Lots of kids like schools with good sports. It’s as good a reason as any to prefer one school over another. It is not you or your daughter’s cup of tea but it doesn’t mean that kids who go to some of the schools you don’t seem to care for are going to “crap” schools.

Ref post #95 by OP @cloudysmom , OP is concerned that she cannot get noncustodial parent info from dad, and if she could, he would refuse to pay, is in hiding and paid no child support since divorce. She also states that she does not have a paper trail to support NCP waiver. I don’t think any of the private, meets need schools which require CSS profile will give out any institutional aid without that waiver, and estimates based on mom’s info alone from the net price calculator will not be accurate.

Does your D’s high school/guidance counselor know about the situation with missing dad? They may be able to provide documentation. You need to figure out how to get that NCP waiver documentation, or else you may be wasting a lot of effort on colleges which are unaffordable, and just compounding your D’s disappointment if she gets admitted, but cannot attend due to these issues.

@kelsmom or other parents with experience on this issue , can you offer any guidance to OP about what she needs to provide for non custodial parent waiver in this situation?

@mom23travelers Thanks for the input but I have a question for you. UR and W& M require the CCS profile thing. I filled it out when she applied to W& M and answered a few questions about my ex. Indont have his address so could not answer many. It said I “may” be asked to submit a non custodial patent profile (same language on UR site) but none said it was required. It sounds like you’re saying it’s required? There is a waiver but it requires police or judges to sign. I really cannot fill it out as I have no info so I don’t see how they can make me, I can’t even find him, surely if I call the aid office someone will understand this form is an impossibility, at least logic tells me that. What do you think?

@Spring16 Yes, we are considering that school, the only problem is there seems to be no real campus, with her ADD I fear she needs more structure than it provides. A friend went there, it’s a great school!

@crazym0m Thank you, that is all good to know! I don’t know if my D could get into the honors college however, but good to know about study abroad. And I always like hearing how kids love certain schools! I don’t think she could possibly get into W&L, I hear it’s the hardest in the state. I know UVA is hard & we’ve sorta ruled it out but then I hear great stories about it and people say why not try, so she might, nothing to lose but time on the essay.

@mamag2855 Thank you, I agree with you and truly am considering all of those things, just trying to first learn about the different colleges from those of you nice enough to respond to my plea. That will help us decide where to pursue and why. Thank you for your concern & for telling me about your MIL, I don’t want to sell the house & doubt I would have to, she loves it & doesn’t want me to either I just get so worried some times, but it’s my only nest egg, I have great equity in it. The divorce was horrible for me financially, I have no savings other than my equity I’m afraid, but lucky to have parents who help in emergencies. A history major can be had many places I know, but she wants to go to grad school and get her doctorate, go I to museum studies and travel abroad so really wants it to be from a great school. I have to temper that with cost & can only do that by gathering info, as I am doing her, so I am trying to be as diligent in that as possibke to make the most informed choice that I can.

@carolinamom2boys I am very sorry if you thought I was calling CofC a crap school, I absolutely was not. It’s an excellent school and I doubt my daughter could get into the honors program there. They have a wonderful history dept, her APUSH teacher went there & loves it. My D has said many times if she wasn’t from Charleston she would have it near the top of her list, but she wants to get away, see new places. I was referring to some schools that are very average or worse and people I know send their very smart kids there simply because they love the football team. I cannot imagine leaving my child’s education up to the football team. That has got to be the dumbest thing.

You also mentioned merit aid deadlines bring over 12/1, she won’t qualify for merit aid do that doesn’t apply to her, I’m afriad, just need based aid. Also, she thinks if she superstores the ACT she can get her composite up to 30, not sure how that works. Such a shame her math is so low, she a 35 on the other components.

@wisteia100 I had that worry about UR too but have heard from moms that their nerdier kids fit in fine. The more $ schools will perhaps have a prep pier vibe, I think she can deal knowing what a good education she would be getting and it was more getting away from the prey girls she knows at her HS who are going to College of Charleston. There are a large # of very entitled, obnoxious girls at her school. I haven’t heard of Dickenson but will look it up, thanks for the idea!

I actually do not have any experience at a Profile school that requires the NPC, so I am not sure what a school would want for a waiver. My advice is to contact the school to ask - that is the best way to find out what is needed.

@sevmom I’m afriad she’s not going to get excited about any of these schools, not after being tejected by W& M, there is no place else she wants to go so we’re looking at it logically instead of emotionally. Of course I hope she gets excited in time. I will make sure we can afford it before we apply. So far it seems we are ok, the smaller public schools, like UMW & JMU are more in question but if she gets in, it’s RD so we’ll wait & see what the aid offers look like.

Again, my reference to crap schools was in a sentence talking about people I knew with very smart kids, Ivy League ready kids, but send them to a not good state school simply because of the football team. These are wealthy people I know & I see it over and over here in SC. Parents driving new Teslas who won’t put $ into their kids education, which can shape them forever, simply because they like a football team. I will never understand that. There are plenty of great schools with great football teams, that is different. I am talking about schools that are far beneath the capability of these kids. Schools should challenge kids, introduce new ideas, new ways of thinking, make them aware of how big and diverse the world is, open their minds to different points of view. Everything we learn makes us into more well rounded individuals.

@cloudysmom I also live in SC, so I’m assuming that you’re referring to Clemson and University of SC since you keep referring to football. I’d just like to let you know that both schools are academically fine schools . Many OOS students would give their eye teeth and pay a lot of money for the opportunity to attend these schools . Unfortunately , people believe that they need to attend a “selective school” or an Ivy to get a good education or have great opportunities . That is not the case at all. You don’t feel that your daughter would be eligible for merit. With her stats she would be eligible for merit at quite a few fine schools, but are not super selective. By leaving the state , she is leaving at least 5000.00 on the table from lottery funds as well as instate tuition . It purely is a personal decision, but financially it may not be the best one for your family IMO. Good luck to your daughter. And as an aside, many schools superscore the SAT, but few superscore the ACT.

@cloudysmom , Maybe the kids actually like these schools, even if they could go elsewhere to higher ranked schools. You just never know what really goes on in anyone else’s house. Football, college traditions are very big for some families. Still not sure what schools you think these families are sending their kids to that are far beneath them. Clemson, USC have football and are certainly very respectable schools. If these families are wealthy, they are probably fulll pay at any public football school, so are probably still putting substantial money into their children’s education. Just not in a way that you approve of.

Unfortunately, focusing on one dream school only is going to cause problems if there is a rejection. Hope your daughter can start getting excited about other options.

Crossposted with @carolinamom2boys . Certainly agree that Clemson and USC are very desirable schools. As is College of Charleston. We know kids from Virginia that ended up at College of Charleston and USC and as far as I know, they were happy there.

I was not referring to Clemson, it’s a great school as well as Wofford and a few others. I don’t think so much of USC but I was also referring to southern states, huge on football, however, but these were not the ones I had in mind but don’t want to cause a fuss by naming names. Sorry but I think if you’ve got millions and you send your kids to an average in state school because of football instead of to the best school you comfortably can, then that’s a real shame. And I just cannot imagine something as unimportant to education as football effecting a child’s quality of education. Also I was speaking of the southern football crazy people in other states as well. I grew up in MS, talk about football over education, it was insane.

$5000 to leave the state is a small price to pay IF it gets her a better education. An education will stay with her forever.

She applied ED at W& M, that forces you to focus on one school. I tried to get her interested in others but it didn’t work. As I said elsewhere, you can’t always help who you fall in love with. She lived in the dorms at W& M when she went there last summer, that wasn’t something she was able to do at other schools so it naturally gave her time to consider the school more highly and she fell in love with it. ED sorta makes you put all your eggs in 1 basket which is great if it works & gut wrenching if it doesn’t, sigh…

My goddaughter attends William and Mary as an instate student and was accepted ED last year. Interestingly enough, her second choice was Clemson and third choice was University of SC.

Well she certainly made the right choice, good for her! Clemson is a very good school but I assume what she wants to study has a lot to do with the best fit. Must be heaven to be an in state student in a state with such wonderful schools!

Has nothing to do with fit. She chose an instate option.

I just meant for example, someone wanting to be an engineer might choose VTECH over another school. She is very lucky to live where she does. I’ve read a lot of reports at how amazing the public colleges are in VA, one of the top states for highly regarded schools.

Yes, we are lucky in Virginia but the South Carolina schools are not exactly chopped liver. For some kids, it is a matter of the grass is always greener on the other side. You have an occasional Virginia kid that ends up in SC!

I’m sure you’re right but overall the schools in VA are far superior. We see a lot of kids from the north coming to College of Charleston. My close friend is dept chair for the French dept there, says kids love the idea of beaches, palm trees, the islands, warmer weather & the parents like the quaintness of Charleston. I’ve lived all over the country, it’s a great little city to be sure. Woffard is fantastic in particular.