Help me decide: UMICH or WUSTL?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
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<p>


Top Choices

Washington University in St. Louis: Arts & Sciences
University of Michigan - Ann Arbor: Literature, Science, and the Arts

Assume that cost is not a factor.

``` Academic Interests ``` **Economics, pre-law/legal studies, and computer science.** I love all three, and have not decided on one yet.


Preferences

Size: 4,000 to 10,000, but I can deal with more.
Academic Rigor: Challenging classes are a must, regardless of which of the three academic interests I pursue.
Social Life: I'm looking for work hard/play hard. I don't mean "study 24/5 and get trashed 24/2." Interesting and varied social activities are better than nightly keggers, but parties must be available too. Extracurricular activities and events would be good.
Sports: I don't care. Intramurals would be nice.
School Spirit: An advantage but not necessary.
Employment and Grad School: Important.
Surrounding Area: Suburban would be best. Enough shops, restaurants, activities, and events to keep me busy but not lost.
Student Personality: Friendly, active, and intelligent people.</p>

<p>Please do not respond unless you are familiar with WashU, too!</p>

<p>Explanations are appreciated. Thanks guys!</p>

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<p>I think that I would go with Michigan. Being a fellow applicant to Washu myself, I personally think you would like Michigan better. It has an EXCELLENT econ program but the student body is large. However, the school feels a lot smaller than it really is. Both Washu and Michigan have challenging classes and in michigan's case, they have the bell-curve grading system. Michigan has amazing social life. When I visited WashU i didn't like St. Louis at all. (Then again I'm from the NYC area). Michigan has an unbeatable intramural program but WashU has a good program itself. Michigan >>>>>WashU in terms of school spirit. To tell you the truth, the surrounding area of WashU isn't all that great. Sure, there's that huge park but outside of that, it gets pretty run down by St. Louis. Ann Arbor is the ideal college town for any student. Both a michigan and washu degree are very respectable in the job market. WashU probably has the better "student personality" just because it's not a state school so you wont meet as many boneheads at washu than at michigan. That being said, Michigan has wonderful people also.</p>

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<p>"In michigan's case, they have the bell-curve grading system."</p>

<p>Just curious... Where's this on their web site?</p>

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<p>BigRed25:
Thank you for your advice.</p>

<p>It sound like the main differences are that Michigan has a reputable econ program, and that Ann Arbor is a better college town.</p>

<p>I've been to WashU before and really loved the Loop and the area around the college. I haven't been to UMich and I opened this thread to see if it was worth visiting.</p>

<p>Does anyone else know of significant differences between these schools?</p>

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<p>I would recommend Michigan. Ann Arbor is more fun and more pleasant than St. Louis and the University of Michigan is better than Washington University in Economics and computer sciences and it is also better at sending students to top Law schools. Furthermore, the fact that Michigan has a top 3 undergraduate Business school and a top 5 undergraduate school of Engineering attracts many employers that are willing to recruit from the general population.</p>

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<p>It depends on what you want. WashU is KNOWN for its science and pre-med program...while its social sciences are rather small in terms of enrollment. </p>

<p>Now, you can take that and say, "Obviously, Umich is better". But, at WashU, you can expect A LOT more personal attention, and a less cut-throat atmosphere, because there are simply fewer people</p>

<p>I don't know what you kids are talking about...but the loop is awesome, and ann arbor doesn't compare. Also, washu feels more like a community, and the campus is MUCH more pedestrian friendly.</p>

<p>Ultimately, its up to you. But do also take into consideration the brand-name. It doesn't really matter what major ( find me an adult who STILL works in there major field), but in the end..is a degree from Washington University in St. Louis, or the University of Michigan worth more on the job market.</p>

<p>If you don't know...check u.s news....you know employers are!!!</p>

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<p>I am also starting off going for econ/ pre-law and if I had the choice to go to Michigan or Wash U I would choose Michigan. There are more people therefore more to do on campus. As far as academics you can't lose, they both have similar (excellent) reputations. My friend had to make the same decision as you between Wash U and Michigan and choose Wash U, but only because she was originally from St. Louis. Just remember you can't go wrong either way...would you rather spend 4 years of your life in St. Louis or Ann Arbor?</p>

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<p>My god, is this even a CHOICE?!?!?!</p>

<p>UMich is a much better school than Wash U, unless your idea of fun for the next 4 years is hearing Ivy rejects complain about how their life is terrible!</p>

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<p>Ummmm. No...its not. Not in any way is Umich a better school in terms of academic indicators.</p>

<p>New question...could someone please tell me what is up with bashing WashU on this website. We are all trying to be constructive. And college hopeful, I, like so many other WashU students, may end up choosing WashU OVER Ivies like D-mouth, P-ton, and Cornell. </p>

<p>The only way one might find Umich to be better is if there are personal subjective concerns (i.e you have family in Detroit, or some crazy uncle lives in St. Louis and you think he might try to kill you). Otherwise, on the academic indicators, WashU is better.</p>

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<p>KB, you are a 17-year old from Chicago, and yet, you speak authoritatively of Ann Arbor and St Louis. I know many people from St Louis who now live in Ann Arbor and many ex Ann Arbor residents who now live in St Louis. None of them ever said they liked St Louis as much as, let alone more, than Ann Arbor. I have been to St Louis several times myself and I understand why. St Louis is a decent town...but Ann Arbor is one of the most unique and pleasant university towns in the country.</p>

<p>And you claim that Wash U is more respected by corporate recruiters? I suggest you check up on that before making such a statement.</p>

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<p>Let us disect this: </p>

<p>Economics Rankings:
Michigan is generally regarded as one of the top 10 Economics programs in the nation. It sometimes dips to #12 or #13, and I have seen it as high as #6 or #7. Washington University's Econ department is good, but not regarded as one of the top 25 in the nation. According to the latest USNWR, Michigan was ranked #11 in Economics and Washington was ranked #36.</p>

<p>Computer Science Rankings:
Michigan is very good but not great in Computer Science. It is generally considered to be a top 20 but not top 10 program. Washington University is generally considered slightly weaker than Michigan in Computer science, usually ranking between #30 and #40 in the field. According to the last ranking by the USNWR, Michigan was ranked #14 in Computer Science and Washington was ranked #35. </p>

<p>So in both majors you are considering, I would say Michigan has a clear edge over Washington University.</p>

<p>LAW SCHOOL ENROLLMENTS:
Here's a look at placement at top 10 Law Schools for the class of 2007 (unless otherwise indicated). I have links to some, others I have gathered through personal research by contacting Law Schools admissions offices (for my personal use).</p>

<p>Harvard University Law School (total placement for the last 3 years)
University of Michigan 18
Washington University 2
<a href="http://www.law.harvard.edu/admissions/jd/colleges.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.law.harvard.edu/admissions/jd/colleges.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Yale University Law School (total placement for the last three years)
University of Michigan 6
Washington University 0 (zero)
<a href="http://www.yale.edu/bulletin/html/law/students.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/bulletin/html/law/students.html&lt;/a> (scroll to the bottom)</p>

<p>University of Chicago Law School
University of Michigan 4
Washington University 1</p>

<p>University of Michigan Law School
University of Michigan 63
Washington University 4</p>

<p>Stanford University Law School
University of Michigan 3
Washington University 1</p>

<p>Columbia University Law School
University of Michigan 14
Washington University 2</p>

<p>New York University Law School
University of Michigan 10
Washington University 1</p>

<p>University of Virginia School of Law
University of Michigan 3
Washington University 2
<a href="http://www.law.virginia.edu/home2002/html/prospectives/class07.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.law.virginia.edu/home2002/html/prospectives/class07.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Northwestern University Law School
University of Michigan 8
Washingtin University 2</p>

<p>Georgetown University Law School
University of Michigan 9
Washington University 4
<a href="http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admissions/jd_profile.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admissions/jd_profile.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>All in all, Michigan sends quite a few more students to the top 10 Law schools annually than Washington University. According to the verifiable numbers above, Michigan sent 125 students to top 10 Law schools compared to 18 by Washington University...and Washington university is only 4 times smaller, so I would say proportionately, Michigan is still significantly better at placing students into top 10 Law schools. </p>

<p>Even in the sciences, which Washington University claims to be better at than Michigan, they aren't. Michigan is actually at least as good as Washington University in the Sciences. </p>

<p>According to the latest USNWR rankings:
BIOLOGY:
University of Michigan #14
Washington University #14</p>

<p>CHEMISTRY:
University of Michigan #21
Washington University #43</p>

<p>GEOLOGY:
University of Michigan #5
Washington University #23</p>

<p>MATHEMATICS:
University of Michigan #8
Washington University #37</p>

<p>PHYSICS:
University of Michigan #13
Washington University not among the top 45</p>

<p>I am not trying to say that Washington University isn't excellent because it is. But Michigan is also excellent and deserves to be recognized.</p>

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<p>Does anyone have any stats on employment rates for these 2 schools?</p>

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<p>Both have great job placement. It is impossible to tell which one has better professional placement. I would say they are about even. Only their respective business schools provide exact numbers. I would say Michigan has a slight edge, but it is slight.</p>

<p>Michigan:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/ByFunction.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/ByFunction.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/TopHiringCompanies.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/TopHiringCompanies.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/ByGeographicRegion.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/ByGeographicRegion.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Washington</p>

<p><a href="http://www.olin.wustl.edu/wcrc/pdf/AnnualReport.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.olin.wustl.edu/wcrc/pdf/AnnualReport.pdf&lt;/a> (scroll down to see BBA)</p>

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<p>If academic reputation (the reputation in the specified fields) is very important to you, I would pick Michigan. Though WashU is ranked #11 in US News (still I have no idea how it has jumped so fast; thought colleges don't change like Hollywood drama); it's departmental rankings are kinda low for a school ranked #11. It's like the whole is different from sum of its parts.</p>