You might ask your kid’s GC if the have data points on some of these schools that aren’t on Naviance. Our kids’ school withheld the data when a small number of students had applied, but they were willing to tell us when we asked.
OP,
Why to define “safe” and so forth, why to divide schools into categories at all? My D. had very similar stats to your kid, GPA=4.0 uw - graduated #1 in her private HS class, ACT=33, tons of various and unrelated ECs. She had no problem getting accepted to various UGs, but she never thought of dividing them into categories and she was not interested in applying to Ivy / Elite schools. She was looking for college that would fit her personality and very wide range of current and potential interests and the one that she ended up attending was a perfect place for her.
There is no reason to try to break thru the locked doors when there are plenty of wide open options that would be very happy to have your kid as a student, so happy, that many of them will be glad to offer a very large Merit, like full tuition or close. Isn’t nice to have your child at the place where you know that he/she is happy and it is tuition free?
A few other nice LACs with strong theater programs where your D’s stats would give her a high probability of admission are Willamette, Knox and Whitman. She’d probably get significant merit money at the first two on that list, and might get some from Whitman, too. And, though I gather she’d rather leave Ohio, I presume you’ve considered Oberlin and Kenyon, which both have excellent theater scenes.
I appreciate everyone’s opinions on different schools to consider, and really appreciate the thoughts on what exactly qualifies as a safety school. As I am sure some of you can appreciate, the challenge is that some of the smaller LACs which would appeal to the student as a safety are not necessarily financial safeties for us, certainly not without merit aid. I am loath to “bank” on the idea that merit aid will be forthcoming in the same way that I am troubled by saying that a school where her stats are at or above the 75% line can be a safety with admit rates in the 20% range. Know what I mean?
I will look at the colleges that change lives, thanks to everyone for that input.
And @intaparent, I have the scattergrams from some colleges blocked by the high school because there was too little data. The counselor was kind enough to share them with me. Unfortunately, the fact that there is so little data (2-3 students in most cases) means they are consequently less reliable, at least in my mind. And yes, the quote from @mom2collegekids quotes a post I put up last year when I was looking for ideas in building her list of schools to look at in the first instance. I am not sure what point she was driving at.
How much does the net price calculator say for Ohio University? Any merit? They shoukd have her major (social work) and theatre.
Yes, don’t dismiss the schools in your own state, there might be some that appeal to her, and might be affordable, while not being too far away.
@MiamiDAP, yes you are right that there are plenty of great schools where her stats would indicate an easy path to admission, and that give guaranteed merit aid that would make them affordable for us. I believe your daughter attended one. In fact, for quite a while we did not worry a ton about a safety because we thought that Miami would be a perfect safety for her. But over the last several months as we have been visiting colleges, a strong preference has developed for smaller schools. While you are absolutely correct that there is no rational reason to chase certain schools just for the name, I would argue that there is no requirement that a kid like a particular style of school simply because that school is affordable.
@rayrick, she does like Kenyon even though it is too close to home. Kenyon’s admission rate is @25%. Oberlin is really close to home and did not get a serious look for that reason. Even if we were farther away, Oberlin’s admit rate is at least as low as Kenyon.
@mommdc OU would be affordable for us, but it does not really hit any of the criteria she is looking for. It is really out of the way, much larger than what she likes, etc. The school in our state which would be the natural safety for her is Miami of Ohio which in many ways is great, just about three times larger than everything she likes.
Yes, I mentioned Oberlin and Kenyon not so much because they qualified as safeties, but just because they’re strong in theater. I’ve been through the LAC search process now with two kids that are both interested in theater (among other things), so it’s well-traveled territory for me. The other schools I mentioned, however, are more in keeping with the original purpose of this thread.
@rayrick, yes, and thanks. I did put Knox (and Muhlenberg from another poster) on the top secret dad potential safety list. The other two are a it farther from home than we are looking.
…and I second (or third) Muhlenberg, by the way – I only didn’t mention it because it had already been brought up. Theater is a huge deal there, especially musical theater, I believe. Something like 10% of Muhlenberg kids major in theater, which is a ton.
My D is not overly enthused by her safety, but we were both agreed that if push came to shove it would be better than going nowhere or staying at home and going to the local cc. Agree with some other posters that mentioned selection criteria might have to bend in finding the safety. That’s sort of built in to the process.
My D has applied to all LACs, many of which have been mentioned in this thread. Her safety is an OOS flagship where she gets in-state tuition due to her stats. It’s way bigger than she would like, but it does have an honors program to bring it down in scale and provide some small classes. It’s in a very different part of the country and has a very different ethnic/racial mix than anywhere she has attended school. For her, those are positives.
She absolutely refused to consider our very good state uni’s. She is currently in an OOS boarding school and did not want to come back and “go to college with the kids from middle school.”
So while it’s far from being her fave, she and I both feel she could be happy there and do well. She is a HS senior. She was admitted to the safety months ago so that was a relief, even though expected. She applied to two colleges EA, accepted at both, with unexpected merit aid at both. Merit aid at one of those schools is about half the cost of attendance.
We need substantial need-based aid so the saga continues for us. But for a family that could afford half the COA, they could rest easy at this point. BIG VOTE for EA where available and especially for safety schools. It’s a boost to morale and a relief from pressure, having those acceptances in pocket. (If student only applies EA to more selective schools they may be denied or deferred which might have opposite effect.)
@Ohiodad51 While you are absolutely correct that there is no rational reason to chase certain schools just for the name, I would argue that there is no requirement that a kid like a particular style of school simply because that school is affordable.
Well said!!
@ucbalumnus wrote:
“Also, different levels of selectivity can apply to different divisions or majors within a school. For example, the University of Washington has a 55% admission rate, but a student seeking direct admission to the computer science major there probably should not consider it to be an admission safety no matter how high his/her stats are.”
Also, different levels of selectivity can apply to residents and nonresidents. For example, the University of Washington has a 53% admission rate (fall 2015), but the admission rate is around 66% for Washington residents, 46% for OOS US residents and 36% for international applicants.
There are LACs all over the country with acceptance rates over 60%. Some in the Midwest are: Allegheny, Ohio Wesleyan, College of Wooster, Earlham, Denison, Knox College, Beloit College…
I highly recommend you obtain a copy of Colleges That Change Lives by Loren Pope. All LACs, and almost all would be low matches or safeties for your child.
Already mentioned before, but I would second Wooster, Lawrence, Dickinson and Muhlenberg. All offer merit aid, and very generous merit aid at Wooster, Lawrence, and Muhlenberg
Safety school is hard to be a student’s favorite school too. What I would consider is, whether would she rather go to this school if she is denied by all other schools, or take a gap year or go to a local community college instead.
It is not unheard of for a student’s first choice school to be a safety for him/her. There are probably plenty of top 7% rank Texas high school students whose first choice school is some Texas public university, and they are not aiming for a competitive-admission major, and they and their parents can afford the cost.
However, it can be much harder to find a suitable safety among smaller schools, particularly where “level of applicant’s interest” is considered in admissions.
It is a little tricky for a student who likes theater but who doesn’t want to major in it. There might be very, very limited opportunities for the non-theater majors. The school may SAY that anyone can participate, but are there really chances to do so? My daughter started as a theater major and there weren’t many opportunities for the majors, never mind non-majors. My daughter found her school even more limiting than high school. A friend of hers goes to one of the biggest universities in the country and has earned starring roles as a non-major freshman (so now she’s a major!). Big school, big opportunities.
Then you need to have a frank discussion with your daughter about finances.
Your daughter needs to figure out for herself what she is willing to settle for in the event that she doesn’t get what she wants.
That’s life: we can’t always get what we want.
It’s fine to look at what would be the best fit or what would be ideal. But the point of a safety is to have something to fall back on in the event that the top choices don’t work out, either because the student isn’t accepted, or in the event they are accepted but financial aid is inadequate.
If your daughter wants to avoid a large state university, she might consider a smaller regional (“directional”) university in your home state.
Yes, sometimes students find safety schools that they love – but your daughter doesn’t have to be in love with her safety. Just willing to attend. Obviously the school would need to have offerings in the student’s area of interest or likely major, but it certainly doesn’t have to be a perfect match.
There isn’t any requirement that a student needs to “like” a school in order to attend. It would be nice if they did – but if finances are a truly a constraint, then the choice could end up being either the affordable college or no college at all. So the primary requirement for “safety” is “better than nothing”. (And if the student considers “no college” a better option --then they should have plans in place for a gap year).
I absolutely insisted that my kids apply to the state U; and I considered myself fortunate to live in a state where the university system has an early filing deadline – so the kids could submit their apps at the end of November and forget about it after that. My kids had no choice: applying to an in-state public was a condition they had to fulfill before applying anywhere else.
I will add to Calmom’s very fine post- you might want to reframe the idea that you can’t always get what you want as: Life is filled with trade-off’s so here’s an opportunity for YOU to figure out what’s gotta give and what can stay.
I’ve seen kids who were told, “this is life, deal with it” and some of them go off to Safety School angry and depressed. Others go off excited and energized, because the bank of mom and dad didn’t say, “you’re going to Closeby U, be grateful you’re going to college at all”. Instead, the parents handed over the decision-criteria to the kid and said, “once you’ve ascertained that we’re likely to be able to afford this on the budget we’ve given you, we’ll support your decision 100%”.
Sometimes that means that the kid who wanted tiny, rural and cloistered ended up in a suburban location. Sometimes it means that the kid doesn’t major in Media and Communications, but majors in English and has internships at the local public access TV station and becomes editor of a student publication to get enough clips to get that first job. Sometimes it means that the kid who hates rah-rah and sports goes to big state U but opts for a themed living house (French or Organic Food/Sustainability life style) where the close friends end up being like-minded. Sometimes it means a plane ride and not a bus ride- and the kid is willing to give up coming home for Thanksgiving in order to have three weeks at home over Xmas.
But you see my point- give your kid the autonomy to figure out what’s essential and what’s nice to have. To me- size is the biggest red herring among HS kids. It is MUCH easier to make a big university tiny than it is to make a tiny college big. You can join activities and affinity groups and religious organizations at a large campus where your own circle is cozy and embracing and you literally have NO dealings with the frat scene or the jock scene or the big U elements that you’re not interested in. It is harder to take a small college and create a robust campus culture- for the most part, if you have trouble finding your peeps Freshman year they may not be there.
So I would not be so quick to dismiss an affordable option which rings all the bells just because of size. But again- allow the kid the trade-off making. But again- a lot of university’s have headcount which just aren’t relevant for a Freshman. There’s a med school (which may be in a completely different part of town). How relevant is that? There’s a divinity school- is an undergrad going to have any dealings with that part of campus? There’s an Ag school/Grad journalism program/law school… how does that impact the undergrad experience?
Make sure your D is sizing correctly- comparing undergrad enrollments across the board and not total student population. It may make some big U’s much smaller.
you’ll get there.