Help me find a college for my bright but not doing stellar son

Parents Forum
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<p>I'll echo the other posters that are suggesting that you don't stress about your son's grades. In real life, kids do not do well in all subjects -only on CC. C's do happen and while they may disqualify an applicant from the ivy league, fortunately there are about 2,500 College and Universities in the US - there is a college for every student. The key is finding a match for the student you have, not for the student you wish he was. </p>

<p>I think it's great that your son is even interested in colleges at his age and knowing what's required is a great motivator. As far as honor colleges, there's a huge disparity in what's required at each college. As you can guess, the more competitive the college, the higher the requirements for their honors colleges.</p>

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<p>Just a couple random thoughts:</p>

<p>If he thinks he wants a smaller environment with prof interaction, he needs to really consider whether a place like MI is what he wants. D's friend was in an orgo class with 1500 ("small group" session was a couple hundred). Visits are important.</p>

<p>If he is a football player as I think of football players, he might not be especially comfortable at a place like Vassar or Goucher. Of course, I could be wrong. Again, visits are important.</p>

<p>There is more to life than HYPS. I'll bet he will be considered a good bet by some great schools. Keep on him about the importance of doing his best, but relax ... perfection really is not expected by the vast majority of colleges.</p>

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<p>re the football thing:</p>

<p>A friend of my D's, bright kid but more interested in football and journalism than in academics, ended up at the Colorado College ... playing football! Who knew they even had a team? I haven't heard how he likes it.</p>

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<p>Leadership will trump grades and scores, All-The-Time. Develop the Leadership skills. Chamber of Commerce, Mentoring programs, Rotarian, City Clubs, Political Leaders at all levels. Dale Carnegie Courses. </p>

<p>I hate to compare current, past, and future political leaders; However, if you notice that the current crop of wannabe candidates they all give you the definite feeling that they CAN lead. Contrast them to the current and past 'leaders'; Pay attention, whether they can put together 5 words together that you can audibly hear, makes sense, visually pleasing, doesn't make you vomit or leave a 10 minute aftertaste .</p>

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<p>TYFT--</p>

<p>Just a note --University of Denver is a private school with about 4500 undergraduate students, not an out of state public school for my son. It has some fabulous programs but is not a school often mentioned on this forum. My guess is that the school would be a lot more popular if it was located on either coast, but because of its location it is often overlooked, as it is not convenient for students to visit it in the general run of college tours. It was the first school my son WANTED to visit--the right size, in a great city, a very pretty campus, strong academics, cold /snow sports , a big emphasis on leadership and acheiving in the real world (unbelievable emphasis on leadership programs and real world experience/internships).</p>

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<p>^^^^Leadership will trump grades and scores, All-The-Time. Develop the Leadership skills</p>

<p>Sprinkle college guide books around.
Make the decisions, others suggested in previous posts-
size, location, urban, rural.</p>

<p>Let him pick a couple- go visit a couple colleges this summer, get a feel.
Might motivate him to "work" harder.</p>

<p>Your son sounds like a kid who will "thrive" in right atmosphere.
Invest in several guide books.</p>

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<p>I don't know where in the NE you are, but Skidmore might be one to visit. If your son is interested, I don't think it's too early for casual visits to a few near-to-you schools or colleges you might drop in on when you vacation somewhere. Some kids really get motivated by a great-looking campus full of interesting looking kids.</p>

<p>Yes, your boy will be at an advantage at most LACs and especially those that were once all-female and are looking to balance gender. Looking outside your geographic area gives an admissions advantage, but that only matters if your son is willing to go farther from home and you are willing too.</p>

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<p>I could relate to boysX3 post about those cards and notes - you could have described my DS1 to the T ! He also tends to work last minute, and has pulled quite a few 'rabbits' out of the hat. Little details: forget them - he does not 'need to' know them or want to know them or some combination of both. Classes based on rote memory; those were and are still a hardship for him. He is not engaged in them unless the teacher somehow brings the material alive.</p>

<p>Bottom line: you can not change the child. I think it is part the maturity curve of boys.</p>

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<p>Specific NE schools looking to attract more boys-
Dickinson, Connecticut College, Skidmore, Vassar, (perhaps) Muhlenberg</p>

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<p>Keep college in mind but also consider a gap year (and the numerous helpful threads on CC about it).</p>

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<p>As a 9th and l0th grader, my D never saw the point of grades because she imagined college was just a larger version of high school. Because her older brother needed to visit colleges, and we fit this into family travel schedules, she got dragged along on these tours. She told me that she never realized that colleges were in many buildings, with green space between, and all kinds of cool places (lounges, student unions with pool tables, green areas with people reading or playing pick-up sports, a separate and much better gymnasium..). She said she had imagined "college" as just a larger single building and larger parking lot, like her dreary high school. </p>

<p>After the first campus visit (for her brother), she was more motivated because she realized she was heading for something different, not more-of-the-same. If your family vacation travel can include a lunch-stop in a university or college town, even one you're not considering (less pressure), just recreate there and see if he picks up on anything appealing. A family can walk around a campus, after all.</p>

<p>LOL, from Buffalo, we always stop in downtown Syracuse as a midpoint when driving to NYC, and that's how we learned it's a charming neighborhood near a fine university. It got onto my youngest S's college list that way; he liked the adjacent bakeries. Other times we stopped at SUNY Binghamton area, with no particular business there, and later described it very positively to a friend passionate for foreign language studies. I'd rather take a travel break at any campus than stop on those interstate rest-stops.</p>

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<p>I wholeheartedly agree with reading Pope's 40 colleges that change lives. It gave me a secure feeling that there is a great, great match for my kid out there, no matter grades/SATs. The very focus of the book is where should the B+ student who is not going to HYP go, and what does he learn there?</p>

<p>Since the book came out, some of the schools are getting more selective, but it's the best place to start for kids like ours.</p>

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<p>Just to reiterate, reading both of Loren Pope's books really changed my perspective on the college search. Many CC posters suggest these books and I wish I had listened to them sooner.</p>

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<p>Re: leadership trumping grades & scores --- that's fine if your kid is into that. Many are not. I really don't think there is anything "wrong" with a high school kid who isn't already setting the world on fire as a mover & shaker. It hardly foreshadows a future of scraping to make ends meet. My own S is a smart kid who has good grades & scores. He would rather jam on his guitar with his buddies than go to Key Club meetings. I really don't think that means he'll never be able to lead a company some day ... if that is even something he ever wants to do. One of my best friends was slacker who smoked a lot of dope in high school. He is a very high level executive at a major corporation today. High school is hardly the place where careers are made or broken.</p>

<p>Just my two cents.</p>

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<p>Other shcs looking to attract boys: Sarah Lawr, Bennington, and, farther south, Goucher.</p>

<p>Also, don't underestimate the importance of football - - shcs need a lot of boys to field a team. Friend' S w/ less than stellar numbers is being recruited by a number of strong colleges and small unis (URoch is the one that comes to mind).</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the input!</p>

<p>Yes, I think kelmom is right...I'm not sure he would be too comfortable at a Vassar type place. While he not necessarily the "stereotypical" football player because of his grades and ability, his is definitely the "joke around at the lunch table with the guys" type and definitely the "always has a date for the dance" type. I would never in a million years call him serious minded, as much as I would like him to take some things more seriously! </p>

<p>I don't think he would be good enough to be recruited for college ball, and to tell you the truth, I'm actually glad about that as it is so grueling even at the high school level...I hear it is a thousand times worse at the college level!</p>

<p>He is interested in business, by the way. His father and I are both Michigan MBAs.</p>

<p>P.S. He has a (male) cousin at Sarah Lawrence who is the brooding intellectual type. My son is so not that. Is that the typical Sarah Lawrence student?</p>

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<p>There are so many schools that would probably be great for your son. It's true that his gpa is low for UM, but that can change. He has several more report cards before applying ... and I "think" UM looks more at later grades (don't yell if that's wrong ... it's just what I heard). Plus, he gets extra bonus points in UM's formula for having UM alum parents. He may not want such a big school, though. In that case, you'll want to check out some middle sized & some smaller schools. I don't know where you live ... you said you're OOS for UM, so you may not know the smaller schools I was going to suggest (Albion, Alma, Hope). But there are just SO many possibilities! Start by trying to figure out what he likes ... what kind of an environment makes him happy? For example, my S likes metal music. He wouldn't care if there were lots of kids who don't like metal ... but he WOULD care if it was considered weird to like it. Your S likes football ... does he want to play? Would he want to be at a school that has a lot of guys who played in high school? Would he want a school where football is a pretty well-attended sport? Academically ... would he want to slip quietly into the lecture hall & not be asked questions by the prof? Would he rather have lots of professor-student interaction in class? If he wants to participate, would he be uncomfortable if the norm for students was to contribute as little as possible in class? Does he want an intellectual environment, or would he rather challenge himself in the classroom while telling stupid jokes with his buddies? And location ... city, rural, suburban? Big campus, small campus? North, south, east west, midwest? Does he like to snowboard, or to waterski, or to surf? </p>

<p>As you can see, there is much to consider. But the "considering" should come first, so you can help him narrow down his choices. There really are so many great, great schools for a strong student like your son. Try to figure out what he wants (to the extent that can be done!), and then check out websites.</p>

<p>I will share with you what happened with my D, who is currently a college freshman. When she was your S's age, she was sure she wanted to go to HYP or some ultra-selective LAC in the east. After she looked into them, she decided they really weren't for her (she looked at websites, did some myspace searches, looked through the info they sent, and went to admissions receptions in our area). She eventually decided on small schools, most --- but not all --- in the south, with strong student profiles & merit opportunities. She did not have a clear favorite when May 1 came, and she really agonized about her decision. She decided on a southern LAC with 2800 students, and she has enjoyed it. However, her career goals have changed & she plans on changing schools in order to pursue some opportunities not available at her current school. So ... they can agonize & choose carefully ... and it still might not be the "right" choice. That's okay, though, because life rarely comes neatly wrapped with a big bow!</p>

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<p>There is a small (1,000) school in the NE which has pretty high academic requirments. Leadership qualities are a definite plus. It's one of the 5 military service academies--Merchant Marine Academy. Top test scores, leadership, and physical fitness (as in sports) and the desire to be a military officer matter more than high school GPA. In our case, USMMA taught our son to buckle down and study, so his grades at the academy were higher than his 3.0 hs GPA. If the military might be an option, have him check out their web site-- USMMA.edu. Really small class size. Grads don't have to make a career of the military, and your pocketbook won't even know your kid is getting a top notch education!</p>

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<p>Tooyoung, I'd agree that it's too early to be too worried. Your son sounds like he knows what he likes and likes what he likes. He'll probably have the same reaction to colleges. </p>

<p>There are quite a few moderately selective liberal arts colleges that attract extroverted active social kids. Some that come to mind are: Hamilton, Skidmore, Conn College, Bentley, Bowdoin, Colby, Kenyon, Trinity.</p>

<p>Bucknell seems like an especially good fit.</p>

<p>All of these offer excellent academics, good post-graduate connections and lively campus communities. </p>

<p>I am also a Michigan alum and my son chose to go to a small liberal arts college (Williams). The atmosphere at a small LACs is completely different from a big State U, but it's anything but stifling. There are plenty of social activities (some might say too many) and the academics can be scintillating.</p>

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<p>Well here we are almost a year later, and I have more information to share, and, I hope more input to get.</p>

<p>My son has raised his GPA to a 3.4. He had a few sessions with an SAT tutor (I think four) where they gave him some sample tests. Not sure if tutoring is worth it or not, although of course the tutoring service tells us how much better his scores will be if we spend a gazillion dollars on the tutoring...lol....</p>

<p>His sample SATs have been pretty consistent: Math: 700, Reading:640, and Writing (no essay taken in sample testing though so score extrapolated): 610.</p>

<p>He decided not to take any honors courses this year as he felt that they were dragging down his GPA despite the weighting (and he had heard honors Physics was impossible...meanwhile, he has a solid A in regular Physics.) I don't know if this looks bad on the transcript, to go from three down to none by Junior year....</p>

<p>He has now also decided that he wants a big school because he likes having a lot of things going on. </p>

<p>He still plays varsity football, does indoor track (shotput...but not varsity as he doesn't throw far enough yet to make it), and was elected treasurer of the class again this year. He has a part time job and some community service hours (I'm sure most kids do).</p>

<p>I want to thank you all for the comments as I read every one and continue to read CC for input. As you can see, I don't post much but do soak it all in.</p>

<p>Any additional suggestions appreciated.</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

<p>P.S. We live in Connecticut</p>

<p>P.P.S. Oh...he also plays the drums in the concert band....lol....</p>