Help Me Make My College List! -- Engineering

College Search & Selection
1

I am currently a junior in high school in Maryland and am in the process of compiling a list of colleges that I will apply to. I want to study engineering, however I’m not entirely sure which field is right for me just yet (right now I am leaning towards chemical engineering and materials science & engineering). I’d love to go to a college with an urban campus, but I would be fine with any other type of college campus as long as the other aspects of that school fit me the best. I’m really in to athletics and would love to go to a school with competitive sports teams and a popular network of intramurals.

As of now I have a GPA of 3.93 UW and 4.7 W. I took the SAT in January and got a 1470 and plan on taking it again along with the Math II and Physics subject tests. My ECs are decent but nothing spectacular.

Here is the list of colleges that I am interested in along with where I think I stand in regards to chance of admission:

Safety:
Virginia Tech
Pitt
Purdue
Illinois

Target:
Georgia Tech
Miami
Lehigh

Reach:
Maryland
Wisconsin
Michigan
Northwestern
UVA
UT Austin
U Chicago
Wash U

Ideally, I would like to have this list narrowed down to around 9 schools (3 safety, 3 target, and 3 reach). Please help me by offering insight as to what makes some of these schools unique, so I can work to narrow down the list. I’m also open to adding a few schools to the list that potentially align with my interests. Thanks in advance!

2

U of Chicago does not have ABET engineering programs.

Georgia Tech is a reach for anyone out of state.

UIUC is not a safety - more of a match.

Why do you think Maryland a reach? Is it because you are in-state?

3

You left out the most important thing. What is your budget?

4

I don’t have a specific, set budget; my parents agree that they are willing to support me if I fall in love with a very expensive school. However, it would be best not to break the bank, especially if I decide to pursue a graduate degree in the future.

5

@STEM2017 Thank you for your input. The reason I see Maryland as a reach is because of how competitive the Clark School of Engineering has become for in-state applicants like me.

However, what I’m really interested in learning right now is the factors that make different schools and engineering programs unique, so I can narrow down my list. Anyways, your feedback is always appreciated.

6

You are off to a great start. Best of luck!

7

Let me help you… “Maryland” is your answer. It’s not a reach for you. You are instate and have good scores. Maryland has a good engineering dept. Its cost effective. Of your “reach” schools only NW will offer you a different experience. The others are no different than Maryland. I don’t get WashU unless you are doing something medical. Also you aren’t getting into GaTech with a 1470 unless you are a refugee. Typical safeties are instate schools.

From your list NW and GaTech stick out as excellent different opportunities outside of Maryland. I would add UCSD to your target list.

Maybe, if I blurt out my experience with this it will help you formulate what you should look for and consider.

I often see this question…

Which school should I choose for undergraduate Engineering or CS?

…and some combination of MIT, Stanford, CMU, GaTech, California, Michigan, Illinois, Texas, (other State Schools) …

I went through this with my kids. I’ve/we’ve researched all these schools, and visited/toured all except Michigan.

Research Observations

  1. There is negligible difference in the quality of the Engineering departments of these schools. They teach the same things and all have excellent faculty and research facilities. You aren’t going to learn anything magical at one verses the others.

1.5) Undergraduate research opportunities are best/easiest at Stanford and MIT.

  1. There no difference in the intelligence of the enrolled students in these Engineering/CS programs. I’ve listed the schools above by SAT scores. The difference in the scores is a function of the size of the school. If you strip the schools down to the size of MIT (4500 students) you’ll find: GaTech, MIT, Michigan, Stanford, California, Illinois, Texas, CMU is the order of SAT scores and the scores are very close.

  2. You will not make more money attending Stanford over these others. The difference in salaries is solely a function of the region the school. The Stanford grad and the Texas grad will make the same at company X.

3.5) Internships are easier to get at Stanford, MIT, CMU… GaTech, Texas, California … Michigan, Illinois

  1. Prestige. I’ve worked in engineering/research and hiring of engineers for years. Prestige is regional. Of these schools only MIT and Stanford elicit a, “Wow you went to X.” The others are, “That’s a good school.” after that you have to interview. It doesn’t land the job. If a Michigan and a Texas graduate are looking for a job in Texas, all things being the same, the Texas guy has the advantage. A Berkeley degree carries as much weight as a GaTech degree.

4.5) Rankings… these are just splitting hairs. These schools are top ten in almost every ranking. You can’t go wrong.

  1. Except for MIT, all have nice campuses. MIT campus is a little sad. Texas is nice but a little overwhelming… jam packed with buildings. Berkeley is over populated. Stanford has the best campus… it’s not even close. Once you get past the exterior of the buildings at Stanford they are typically a little run down from use like all other campuses.

  2. Except for GaTech, all have female populations above 42%. Like MIT the females at GaTech are studying STEM which means they are smart.

  3. Bad weather schools - Michigan, Illinois, MIT, CMU are miserable in winter. Berkeley is chilly always. GaTech is muggy in summer. Texas is scorching in summer. Texas has the best all year round weather.

  4. School size undergraduate (k), graduate (k)
    Texas, Illinois, Michigan, California - 30+, 10 large
    GaTech - 15, 10 medium
    Stanford, CMU - 7, 7+ nice
    MIT - 5, 7 small

  5. Student regional diversity (descending order): Stanford, MIT, CMU GaTech, Michigan, Illinois, California, Texas

  6. Cost-wise and Return-On-Investment: GaTech, MIT, Stanford, CMU, Texas, Illinois, California Michigan. I’ve looked at many ROIs for colleges this is more or less the average of what I’ve seen.

University Personality

Stanford - medium stress, medium STEM, A students, easy A’s, easy to get classes, easy to change majors, best campus, lots of options, good school spirit
MIT, CMU, GaTech - high stress, high STEM, A students, hard A’s, fairly easy to get classes, easy to change majors, lack of options, good school spirit
California, Michigan, Illinois, Texas - medium stress, medium-low STEM, large university, A to B- students, hard A’s engineering, harder to get classes, hard to change majors, lots of options, high school spirit, typical of all large state univerities.

What conclusions were reached?

  1. If you live in Texas, Michigan, Illinois, California there is NO reason to leave the state to attend Texas, Michigan, Illinois, California as an OOS student. These schools are the same. It would be unwise to spend the cost of OOS. Unless you are a big fan or have a scholarship.

  2. If you live in Texas, Michigan, Illinois, California there ARE reasons to attend Stanford, MIT, CMU, GaTech over your state school. These schools offer a different experience and are smaller, intense universities. You’ll be surrounded by smart people.

  3. If you live outside of Texas, Michigan, Illinois, California there are limited reasons (cost, scholarship) to attend these schools if you were also admitted to Stanford, MIT, CMU, GaTech.

  4. Our final ranking considering academics, environment, ROI, location, opportunity of the schools NOT considering cost:
    Stanford, GaTech, CMU, MIT, no particular order California, Michigan, Illinois, Texas

  5. Our final ranking also considering cost:
    GaTech, Stanford, MIT, Texas, Illinois, CMU, California, Michigan

I will extend my comments to include Purdue, Texas A&M, UCSD, UCLA, Maryland, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Washington, UVA, NC State, to the list of large public universities. These schools fall just a little lower in the engineering rankings. But there is no real benefit for an Indiana resident to forgo engineering at Purdue for Texas or Berkeley unless you have a scholarship.

Also, I would throw Duke, NW and Rice in with my Stanford comments.

8

UIUC (and even Purdue) are not ‘safety’ in engineering.

9

@stem2017 but Devry has an ABET accredited engineering program so you might want to apply there. =)) UChicago engineering is relatively new and they have no desire to apply for ABET accreditation, I doubt any employer would hire someone out of the hundreds of accredited programs from lesser colleges over a UChicago graduate in engineering.

10

Be sure to show your parents the cost of the most expensive college on the list. Make sure that they are ok with that. If not, you and they need to talk about what the limit of their contribution to your college costs is.

Be aware that admission stats for many schools do not reflect the fact that engineering majors or engineering divisions may have significantly higher admission thresholds.

Also, be aware of how schools admit to major or not, and how students get into majors.

  • Purdue and Virginia Tech admit to frosh pre-engineering; declaring major later may require a GPA substantially higher than 2.0.
  • Wisconsin admits by major, but has progression requirements to stay in the major which may include a GPA substantially higher than 2.0.
  • Michigan and Maryland admit to frosh pre-engineering, but declaring a major only requires passing the prerequisites (C grades / 2.0 GPA).
  • UIUC admits by major, but may admit to the school but not the major. In the latter case, changing into an engineering major after enrolling can be highly competitive.
11
  1. DeVry has ABET accreditation for various engineering technology programs, not engineering programs.
  2. Chicago's molecular engineering program is not a traditional chemical or materials engineering program. Depending on what the employer is looking for, a graduate may be of greater or lesser interest than one from some other school's chemical or materials engineering program.
12

@Greymeer Wow, thanks for all the insight; that is really helpful! One thing about your response specifically caught my attention and that was when you suggested that I add UCSD to my list. To me that seemed a little random to throw in a California school with a list full of east coast/midwest schools. But don’t get me wrong. I’ve always wanted to go to San Diego; I’ve heard the weather there is perfect year-round. Is there something special about UCSD engineering that should make me want to add the school to my list.

13

Maryland is your best bet. You may also want to look at Delaware, especially if you are interested in ChemE just to have another choice.

14

Union college may give you merit.

15

Wrong.

=))

16

Sorry. I’m a veteran now of one college admissions season but this is a huge red flag. There are at least 10 posts every year in APRIL that say “my parents said they would pay and “make it work” but now they say they can’t pay $60,000 a year for XXXX school.”

You need to sit down with your parents and get an exact dollar amount of them as to what they can afford without private loans. Is it $20K a year? $40k a year? Do you know the term EFC?? Do your parents have it?

You have some great schools on your list but a lot of them are all out of state and are going to be crazy expensive.

17

@Greymeer – fantastic list and review!

Also–you should add in (you may have done this but I missed it):

Consider and carefully explore the ability to get your specific major. Some schools require you to re-apply; some schools limit you to your first choice. All of those things should help you with your decision also.

18

@greymeers post is excellent. Your best bet is probably Maryland.

A few quibbles about the details.

Yes, ABET ensures that all engineering students learn a high base level of information. However, top programs do expect more from students and teach students more information.

Also, it is true that salaries for Chem e earn approximately the same pay for similar jobs. However, that changes somewhat by major. The range is much broader for CS, for example.

@carachel2 is making a very important point. At some schools like Purdue, you apply for a major after a year, and may not get in. At others like UIUC you are admitted to a major, but have to reapply if you want to change your major. You may be stuck in your admitted major. Wisconsin has a similar issue.

Lehigh and Case Western allow students broad leeway to chose, and change majors, either within engineering or to change to business or something else. The options these schools they offer are more valuable if you think there is a significant chance that you may choose a different major at some point.

“I doubt any employer would hire someone out of the hundreds of accredited programs from lesser colleges over a UChicago graduate in engineering.”

IDK. MIT, Penn, Stanford and Carnegie Mellon, I believe, all have certain programs that are not ABET accredited. However, their brand and reputations are so strong that it does not matter. Often the program that do not have ABET are newer, and/or more advanced/challenging than others. However, they have all have a long history of engineering programs. Chicago has the brand and reputation overall, but they do not have a long history of engineering. Time will tell.

Binning. Wisconsin and Illinois should probably be similar. Wisconsin and Illinois are very strong at Chem e. I would say they should be Target to slight reach. Also, GA Tech should be a reach. Note that at Illinois, Chem e is part of the Chemistry department, not engineering. (I think this is a historical thing that has never been changed).

19

I echo what @ucbalumnus and @carachel2 said: Be sure to show your parents the cost of the most expensive college on the list. Make sure that they are ok with that. If not, you and they need to talk about what the limit of their contribution to your college costs is.

I told my daughter much the same as your parents told you. I am in the “upper middle class” that barely fails to qualify for need-based aid anywhere, but certainly have neither $250K saved up per child, nor an extra $60K or so in my annual budget. I just wanted her to think about things other than cost at the start of her journey. But when it came down to it and a “good” private school with a “great” honors college offered her a free ride (including all fees, room, board, etc.) and all the “top” national universities admitted her with no merit scholarship, no need-based aid, I suddenly realized I was an idiot. Especially since she plans on med-school. So it wasn’t until after she got into all of her dream schools that we had an extremely clear talk about just because you can find a way to scrape together and borrow 1/4 of a million dollars, attending a dream school wasn’t every going to be worth that.

Your parents may think differently, but you may want to open the conversations now…"Mom/Dad, thank you for being supportive. I am understanding from reading on CC that there may be a difference of $200K or more between our state school and these private universities. That’s a lot of money. I’ll apply either way and see where we end up, but how important would it be to you that I take that cost difference into my final decision? Is there any difference that you intuitively think would just be “too much” to justify the private school?’

Just my 2 cents from doing it wrong as a parent. And go ahead and start to get excited wherever you go. College is awesome!

20

It may be that your parents are willing to spend whatever it costs. As others have said, make sure.

If your school has Naviance, you can better assess your chances. Rather than reach, match and safety. I prefer to assign a probability of admissions to 1 significant digit based on Naviance scatter plots. Look at the points around your GPA and SAT. If all of the points are green (admits), your probability of admission is between 0.95 and 1. That makes it a safety. If your probability is between 35% and 95%, i.e your 1 significant digit probability estimate is 0.4-0.9, I would call it a match.
If the probability of you being admitted is 35% or less, so that the 1 significant digit rounds to 0, 1, 2 or 3, it’s a reach.

If I had to guess, and it’s just a guess, I would guess that Northestern, WashU, UChicago (which doesn’t have engineering), Michigan, UVa, and Lehigh if you apply RD are reaches. Matches if you apply early before the priority deadline would be all of the publics except Michigan, UVA, Purdue, Virginia Tech and Pitt. Lehigh would be a likely match if you applied ED. Their admit rate for ED approaches 60%, double the overall admit rate (which includes the ED, so the RD rate is very low). The safeties you have are I think safeties except Illinois.

Georgia Tech has had a reputation of being very intense with very high attrition, but very much liked by the people who survive. Michigan is a terrific engineering school and has a culture of undergrads doing research much more so than many publics.

Wisconsin is among the most beautiful campuses I’ve ever seen (in summer) and a very nice downtown Madison. Northwestern has a beautiful (in summer) lakefront campus and has trimesters which either you love or hate. In winter, it’s one of the coldest places on the planet. The chain links along the walkways are to hold onto so that the wind doesn’t pick you up and drop you in the lake, LOL. Maryland has one of the worst crime rates of any campus in the country. Lehigh is on the side of a mountain, so if you don’t like walking up hill, forget it. It feels personal like a liberal arts college, but is a bona fide research university and for some reason doesn’t seem as brutal as others. Because it’s small, they need students to do research. At the large publics, getting to do research is more competitive. WashU is another uber difficult school to get into where a lot of students do research. I didn’t think it had ChemE, but I could be wrong. Make sure the school you attend offers any of the majors you are considering. If you attend a school that doesn’t have it, you can’t study it.

I don’t think there is a single right answer. I’d recommend doing some college visits and see if you prefer larger or smaller, colder or warmer, urban, rural, how important is the gender ratio to you, how hard is it to get research opportunities, how happy are the current students. How hard is it? How much pain can you take before hitting your breaking point.