Help me narrow down some schools for a biology major (premed)!

College Search & Selection
1

What would be a total of 10 schools if there were only these universities in the world and your ACT is a 29 and GPA a 3.8 for a biology major? I would prefer you to choose 3 for reach, 4 for match, and 3 for safety. Thanks! It would be beneficial if you guys reccomend schools that are not on this list.

ACT 29 (planning to take until I get a 32) 3.8 UW GPA

These are my current reaches:
Emory
Georgia Tech (cause I spent half my life in Georgia)
Michigan at Ann Arbor
Univ of Washington
Case western

Matches:
Univ of Pittsburgh
Rutgers New Brunswik
Univ of Miami
Univ of Florida
Pen state university park
Syracuse university
Michigan State University
UIUC(my school sends a lot of students so I thought it was a match instead of a reach)

Safety:
Univ of Iowa
Temple
Univ of Missouri
UofI at Chicago

2

What state are you from and what can you afford? What does the FAFSA and/or college net-price calculators say you can afford? Do you want a pretty big school? Do you want big-time sports? Greek life? Will cost of undergrad affect possible parent help in funding med school? Would you prefer the city of Atlanta?

3

I’m sorry that I forgot to mention that. I’m currently a student in Illinois and right now, I’m not focusing on the price, but where the school is big and near a city. It would be nice to have a well known sports team but the things I said before matters more to me.

4

Talk with your parents about what your family can afford very soon. You don’t want to have to remake a college list after learning your finalized list was completely unaffordable.

My list, considering your interests, would probably be: Reaches - Emory, UW, Case; Matches - Pitt, UIUC, MSU, Syracuse; Safeties - UIowa, Temple, UI-Chicago.

5

I appreciate your advice. I’m going to ask my parents tomorrow! Thank you very much!

6

Bates
NYU
URochester

Wake Forest
Bucknell
Franklin & Marshall
St. Olaf

St. Louis
Muhlenberg
Knox

(From, “The Experts’ Choice: Colleges with Great Pre-med Programs.”)

7

Depending on your finances (and their admission requirements for OOS students), UCSD might be another school to consider.

8

<<<
Talk with your parents about what your family can afford very soon. You don’t want to have to remake a college list after learning your finalized list was completely unaffordable.
<<<<<

Exactly! Your parents may have no intention of paying the high OOS costs for schools like Penn St, UWash, UFlorida, UPitt, and the others. Most of those OOS publics on your list give lousy aid.

Your parents may even say that UIUC is too expensive (it’s an expensive instate public that gives lousy aid.)

Please ask your parents how much they’ll pay each year for college. BTW…we can’t tell you which schools would be safeties for you because we don’t know if your parents will pay for them. You may think that a safety is a school that will admit you. How could that be a safety if your parents won’t pay for it? A safety has to be affordable otherwise it’s not a back up school.

How did you create your list?

When I look at your list, this is what I see… a student has chosen some schools that he’s heard about and has chosen schools that have med schools. That isn’t how a premed should create an app list.

Most OOS public med schools accept few OOS students. Their mission is to educate doctors for their state. If you look at the applications stats for the various med schools, you’ll typically see something that looks like this: 25% of apps are from instate students. 75% of apps from OOS students. But, when you look at who the med school accepted and enrolled, the numbers are like 90% instate and 10% (or less) OOS. And the OOS students likely had a tie to the state or are MD/PhD academic medicine.

Med schools don’t care where you went to school. You need to go where you’ll be a top student and get the best GPA.

It doesn’t matter how much your parents will pay, take UWash off. You’re not from one of the WWAMI states (Wash, WY, AK, MN, ID). No OOS premed who isn’t from one of those states should go there.

No OOS premed should go to a UC.

9

“No OOS pre-med should go to a CC.” (#7)

I generally agree. However UCSD is notably strong in biology, which is the OP’s primary academic interest.

10

@merc81
UCSD is very strong in bio but the COA is 55K+, and as OOS, OP will probably pay full amount with no aid. And if I remember UCSD only guarantees on campus housing for 2 years which means living expenses, transportation costs will tend to increase COA. Add to that most med students borrow their way through med school which is expensive, so if OP is determined to go premed route, attending a college which he/she graduates with as little debt as possible should be a very important consideration in his/her college hunt.

11

The OP’s primary interest is likely getting into med school…he/she is premed.

Bio is a staple at virtually every university. It’s not hard to have a very good bio dept, particularly for the needs of a premed.

Who could argue that UIUC’s bio dept isn’t more than adequate for a premed???

It would be silly for the parents, unless wealthy, to spend $50k+ per year for an OOS public.
.

12

Since you are unsure of your financial standing, one thing I’ve seen from many people is to be “cautious” of how many safeties you apply to. People have said to apply to. One safety(that you really like), maybe two or three matches, and the rest reaches. Good luck from a fellow pre-Med high schooler.

13

@pitt2021 @Halleeos

When money might be a concern, I always recommend at least 3 financial safeties. Those are schools that you know FOR SURE that you will be accepted AND you know FOR SURE that all costs are covered by ASSURED merit, grants or family funds.

The reason why at least 3 are needed is because:

  1. Students apply in fall, and often by spring they have changed their minds about what they like/want. So, if only one safety is on the list, then chances are, the student won’t still like that safety by spring.

  2. If a student only applies to 1 safefy, and none of the other schools work out acceptance-wise or cost-wise, then he will feel railroaded into his only remaining choice. People like CHOICE! It’s better for morale in the long run.

  3. There are often mistakes when it comes to safeties. Sometimes the student believes he’s going to get a certain amount of aid or scholarship, and later finds out that he didn’t qualify or whatever. There are sometimes wrinkles that happen…the school may not accept superscores for merit, the school may not give the aid because of NonCustodialParent info, or whatever.

Always best to have 3 financial safeties.

14

mom2collegekids, that is the clearest explanation of multiple safeties that I have ever heard!

15

Re #7:

"It doesn’t matter how much your parents will pay, take UWash off. You’re not from one of the WWAMI states (Wash, WY, AK, MN, ID). No OOS premed who isn’t from one of those states should go there.

“No OOS premed should go to a UC.”

If OP can afford it, OP could go to Washington or a UC for college and then go to medical school somewhere else (such as the University of Illinois).

16

Of the schools on the list, Case Western and the University of Miami stand out to me as having the best potential. Academically, you would be a low match, and they offer BS/MD programs. They also are fairly liberal with merit. If you get into that kind of program, it indicates the school thinks you have a stronger than average chance of making it through med school. If they do not, well, maybe you should re-consider your choices.

UIC also has a BS/MD program, but UIC does not rank high for student quality of life, and if you don’t get through to med school, the school is by far the weakest academically.

Some other random thoughts:

Emory - Good choice. Big reach. Strong competition.
Georgia Tech - No, no, no due to grade deflation
Michigan at Ann Arbor - See Emory but larger
Univ of Washington - Why? Makes no sense unless you want to live in Seattle

Matches:
Univ of Pittsburgh - They offer good OOS merit and not as competitive, This might be a possibility
Rutgers New Brunswik - Again Why?
Univ of Florida - Poor OOS merit
Pen state university park - Poor OOS merit
Syracuse university - U Rochester would be a better choice
Michigan State University - Like Pitt, they offer good OOS.
UIUC - Lots of competition, stuck in a biology silo that is hard to transfer from
Univ of Iowa - Good OOS merit, not as competitive as Michigan or UIUC
Temple - Good OOS merit, BA/MD program, lousy neighborhood
Missouri - This might be a good candidate. If is relatively easy to get in-state tuition in Missouri (live there for 12 months and earn $2,500), and they will be desperate to backfill their class after this year’s disaster.

I would keep UIUC as a benchmark against the other programs. They have a very structured pre-med program described here. Expect lots of weeding out.

https://mcb.illinois.edu/undergrad/opportunities/pre-med

Of the schools on the list, definitely consider Case and Miami, and do more research into Mizzou, Pitt, MSU, Temple, and Iowa, and add Rochester. UIC would be a safety, and Emory would be a good reach.

17

^ “Univ of Washington - Why? Makes no sense unless you want to live in Seattle”

Who knows? Possible reasons:

Washington has always been notably strong in biology, to borrow merc81’s phrase:

http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc41.html#area13
http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc1.html#RANKBYAREA

http://www.shanghairanking.com/FieldLIFE2015.html

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2016/biological-sciences#sorting=rank+region=+country=257+faculty=+stars=false+search=

http://nturanking.lis.ntu.edu.tw/Default.aspx
http://nturanking.lis.ntu.edu.tw/DataPage/countries.aspx?query=LifeSciences&country=USA&y=2015

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/biological-sciences-rankings

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/genetics-rankings

Washington is continuing to make large capital investments in biology:

http://www.biology.washington.edu/life-sciences-complex

https://artsci.washington.edu/campaign/life-sciences-complex

Washington offers OOS students up to $8,500 per year in merit scholarships, has a beautiful campus and PAC 12 sports and is located in an exciting city in a different part of the country for OP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qybVO7A9jQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDK6unQlpeQ

18

“Who knows?” (#16)

Exactly. The OP may simply like a given school, and, as stated above, the school may have substantive qualities that serve to validate the interest.

19

@UWfromCA and @merc81 - I meant no disrespect to UW. Like most of the schools on the list, it is a high quality academic institution. However, even in the unlikely event that the OP gets the full $8,500 OOS merit scholarship, UW will be significantly more expensive than the in-state flagship, UIUC.

In contrast, at some of the other schools listed, the OP has a real shot at getting significantly more merit aid that will make the school less expensive than UIUC. Unless there is some other hidden attraction to UW (or PSU or UF), there is little logical reason to target it.

Other schools that popular with Illinois kids are Minnesota and Ohio State. If the ACT can be bumped up a little, the OP might be able to qualify for in-state tuition at both institutions.

20

I don’t mean any disrespect to UWash or the UCs. They are truly very good schools. No doubt about that.

but for a serious OOS premed, they are just not wise options. Someone who REALLY knows that they want to go to med school should use their undergrad opportunity to reasonably maximize their position, while still attending a desirable school.

If someone REALLY wants to go to med school, has the stats to support the journey, why not be more pragmatic with undergrad selection??? (I’m not talking about the person who is simply smart and therefore believes, “I’m smart therefore I should go to med school.” I’m talking about the person who hasn’t romanticized the process or career and really wants it.)

Sure you can attend and then apply elsewhere, but why give up an opportunity to form a reasonable tie with another state, if you’re determined to go OOS? And why go all the way to the west coast where there are relatively few med schools anyway (VERY few privates) and you’ll have to travels long distances for your med school interviews?

Attend a top UC and you’re lost in a crowded sea of too many premeds…and worse, too many very high stats premeds. Attend any other UC, and it becomes…why??

Attend UWash from a non-WWAMI state and you have such a ridiculously tiny chance of getting into UWash SOM that why bother? From the reported data, it appears that about 5 to 7 non-WWAMI, non-MD/PhD students matriculated to UWash SOM. …out of 7209 OOS applications (8100 total apps). Ugh! And, I imagine that those 5-7 had some amazing hook that a typical strong applicant would not have.

An OOS premed who attends a UC or UWash (non WWAMI), is giving up an opportunity to attend a school in a state to create a tie to help with med school admissions in that state. If an OOS public is wanted for undergrad, why not choose UWisconsin or UVA? At least their med schools accept a good number of OOS applicants.

The premed/med school process is easily derailed simply by a few poor choices. How frustrating that becomes for the person who really wants to go to med school.