Help! My Dad and I disagree about my chances at my Top Choice Colleges

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

<p>I just got home from a two-week college visit marathon with my dad. We visited a lot of highly selective schools, including most of the Ivies. So far my top choices are Yale, Princeton, Notre Dame, and Carleton (its in Minnesota, if you haven't heard of it). I see these schools as "reach"/in my wildest dreams schools (especially Yale and Princeton). I plan to work as hard as I can on my apps. when I apply to these schools, but I'm not setting myself up for disappointment by expecting to get in. My dad, on the other hand, seems to think I’m likely to get accepted at one of my top-choice schools. Is he being overconfident or am I under-confident?? I believe in my heart that I have what it takes, but I honestly don’t think that I look exceptional on paper. My understanding is that basically everyone who applies to Ivy League schools is as qualified as I am (or more), but on top of that they have some sort of “wow factor”. I don’t think I have that. Please help! Also, does anyone know of any good “safety” schools for someone with my stats. looking to apply to top-tier schools? Thanks!</p>

<pre><code>My Stats:
</code></pre>

<p>-Location = small town, Minnesota
-High School = public, about 900 students
-G.P.A. – 4.0 unweighted (4.0 scale)
-Class Rank = 1 of 253
(4 others share that rank, as of 2nd semester Junior year)
-My school only offers 4 AP classes, but I am taking them all, and filling
my schedule with the most difficult classes available
-SAT I = 640(math), 670(critical reading), 710(writing)
(I will be taking it again in the fall, hopefully with some improvement)
-SAT II = 740(U.S. History), 670(Literature), 590(Math IIC… ugh, that’s bad)
(I know, my math needs work. I’ll probably take 1 or 2 over again)
-ACT = 32 (This was on my first try also. Should I take it again?)</p>

<p>Activities, Etc.:
-piano lessons (10 yrs.)
-girls’ choir – entrance upon audition (3 yrs.)
-swim team – lettered, Academic Gold award (grades 7,8,9,10)
-nordic ski team – lettered, Academic Gold award (grades 8-12)
-cross country team – lettered, Academic Gold award, co-captain (11, 12)<br>
-National Honor Society (grades 10,11,12)
-marching band (grades 9,10)
-wind ensemble – entrance upon audition (grades 10,11,12)
-school board subcommittee (grades 11,12)
-I have held a part-time job for more than a year, and will work through next year
-I won a state-wide essay contest, which qualified me to attend an Americanism Youth Conference sponsored by the American Legion Auxiliary
-I was chosen to represent my school at Minnesota Girls’ State
-I have been both Student of the Month and Employee of the Month at some time or another
-I have been involved in 2 school musicals (once in the cast, once in the pit orchestra)
-I was a Sunday School teacher at my church for a year, and a Vacation Bible School volunteer this summer
-I volunteer at my school through SADD, Teens Against Tobacco Use, and Project 4 Teens</p>

2

<p>I think your instincts are good and chances are you dad thinks it's like when we applied. You're SAT scores are way under average for the ivies and for Carleton as well. I don't know numbers for Notre Dame. You need some solid match school somewhat below theses in terms of avergae scores.</p>

3

<p>at all the schools we visited, the admissions officials assured us that standardized test scores are only part of the application process, and they admit many students below the average who can make up for it with excellent essays, recommendations, a great transcript, or something else standout. would you agree with that, or do you think that tests really are given more weight in the process than we were told? And if not, did you see anything in my stats. or activities that might set me apart from other applicants that could help make up for the low test scores? Thanks for your help.</p>

4

<p>also, how many points do you think I should aim (realisticaly) to raise my scores high enough to be a more qualified applicant?</p>

5

<p>does it help that my sister goes to Carleton? She got in with only a 27 ACT. That's a little reassuring since I have at least a 32, maybe higher if I retake it???</p>

6

<p>alie, your scores and grades will neither get you into the superselectives on your list nor will they keep you out. You have a good shot at all, but it's not guaranteed. Your best bet is to do exactly as you're planning -- put together a strong application, try to push up your SATI and find a couple of reasonably secure safeties/matches so that you can sleep at night.</p>

<p>Are you planning to continue any of your sports at college? If yes, have you contacted the coaches? This is a big hook at many colleges.</p>

<p>Also, does your family require financial aid? If yes, you need to evaluate your list along the likelihood of need or merit aid. If no, maybe you could pick an ED choice.</p>

<p>A couple of good safety/matches for you would be Hamilton and Kenyon. Even though you don't need another reach, I'd also take a look at Williams, especially if you plan to continue sports. Williams is always looking for active kids with involvement in the arts (music in your case) and your geographic diversity would be appealing to them.</p>

7

<p>thank you, your post was very helpful. Would it be in my best interest to contact coaches even if I doubt I'm talented enough to play at the varsity level in college? The letters and awards that I have earned have more to do with being the hardest working person on the team, and maintaining a perfect G.P.A. at the same time... and not so much to do with athletic talent. Does it help that I would be interested in continuing a more obscure sport like Nordic Skiing in college, even if it's not at the varsity level? Thanks again for your help.</p>

8

<p>You have shown an interest in musical and vocal areas, among other things. The music is what stood out to me......do you feel passionate about your music? If so, play that up..........what does it mean to you? Put it in your essay? Your grades and scores seem below standard for the type schools you mentioned but schools want to see you as a person ...let your application represent what you love the most and that will be your greatest strength. Good Luck!</p>

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<p>thanks for the good luck wish. I'm curious though (and I'm not trying to be defensive when I say this, because I am really just trying to figure out my weaknesses)... which part of my High School grades are below average? I have a perfect G.P.A. and if I can keep it up for one more semester, I will be valedictorian of my class. I know my test scores need work, but how can my grades get any better?? Is it because my class rank is shared by 4 other people? thanks again for your advice... I am passionate about music, and I hope I can bring that out in my application.</p>

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<p>allie, the combination of sports and music AND Minnesota is a great handle. Exploit it! :)</p>

<p>In answer to your question about the weight of SATs in admissions, my theory is that the bigger colleges with more applicants are more statistics driven and the smaller colleges take a more holistic approach. If you like Carleton, you might also like Grinnell, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Scripps, Smith, Hamilton, Kenyon, Skidmore, Conn College -- all LACs with different personalities, but all, I think, would be interested in someone with your background. </p>

<p>I'm not a sports expert, but I would think that a school with a divison III team would be a good place for you to start. I know Williams has a Nordic team, but it's one of the best in the country so that may not be doable. They do however like kids who are active and involved in sports even if they're not varsity material. Contact the coach to learn more.</p>

<p>Same thing for your music skills. You should put together a music resume, maybe with a performance tape and try to talk to the music departments at your favorite schools. Arts departments "recruit" too as they need to fill those spaces in their orchestras, choruses, and marching bands. </p>

<p>Also, I'd try asking the sports question on the CC parents board as there are many knowledgeble parents there.</p>

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<p>I think numbers show that adcoms want to convince kids that below average scores get in so that they continue to maintain their rankings by rejecting 9 out of 10 candidates. Scattergrams and averages say different. Many get in with below average stats from special groups: legacies, URMs, athletes, the rich and famous. As one of my favorite posters points out, this is the half of the class that's below average. Everyone else is above.</p>

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<p>haha. I see your point. that is a good take on the whole test scores mystery.</p>

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<p>thanks momrath! Your advice has been very helpful.</p>

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<p>I stand corrected...... your grades ARE perfect, I was looking at the scores.</p>

<p>I wish you all the luck in your senior year and in your college admissions process!</p>

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<p>If I was you I would forget about the SAT's and SAT II's and focus on the ACT since your score on that test is much higher. With some prep over the summer you could raise your ACT score and then you would have a great shot at any college!</p>

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<p>your dad is right. ull get in.</p>

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<p>Might want to look at some very good eastern LAC's with name recognition that offer merit aid. Suggest Holy Cross -1 hour from Boston and Holy Cross does not require SAT's for admission. Bowdoin is another.</p>

18

<p>Allie: where in MN are you from? Duluth here...</p>

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<p>your SAT def. agrees with your dad. It is under par and puts you in the 'reach' category</p>

20

<p>Allie,</p>

<p>Even if you raise your SAT scores substantially, there is no assurance that you'll get in at places like Harvard and Yale. More possible, yes, but not a certainty. Expand your list to include at least one "likely admit" and several more "matches" as well as the reaches you've identified. There are many fine LACs out there to choose from. Maybe look at Grinnel or Earlham? </p>

<p>I am a mom in my mid-fifties and things have changed so drastically since when I was applying to school. I don't know anything about your dad but he may not understand how much things have tightened up because of demographics. The baby boomers' kids are hitting the colleges in large numbers. What was sure before isn't sure any more. I am not sure that my son can get into the universities and colleges where my husband and I went even though his grades and ranking are similar to yours. </p>

<p>Good luck as you work through the process! I would second the idea of the ACT retake. Some kids, like my own son, just seem to do better on ACT than SAT, and his score went up the second time. He is working on a SAT retake in the fall.</p>