Help! My S had a HORRIBLE 9th grade final report card!!

Parents Forum
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<p>It seems that many kids who have trouble with math (and the sciences that seem to use a lot of math in it, like physics and to a certain degree chemistry) have attention to detail problems when it comes to calculations. They work too fast, they don’t work carefully or neatly enough, they don’t recheck work, etc. Sometimes, with changed test taking strategies, they can right the ship. I see this problem more with boys at the high school level. </p>

<p>That being said, I’m glad that he is getting tested.</p>

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<p>“Well, chemistry is basically applied physics, and biology is applied chemistry, so it makes sense.”</p>

<p>Interesting observation. It would appear that NYS teaches them in reverse order: 9th grade earth science, 10th grade biology, 11th grade chemistry and 12th grade physics. I suspect this has something to do with the linkage to NY’s math sequence, but it would be interesting to hear from the Board of Regents itself on its rationale.</p>

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<p>ellemenope: You must have seem some of my DD’s math tests! Do negative signs or decimal points matter? I know it is frustrating for her too. She gets the homework and review packet all right but at test time gets a c or lower. Where do you learn the new test taking stratagies to help the kids with these? A tutor, book etc? Thanks</p>

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<p>I don’t know if I would start with physics in 9th grade. It does take math skills that many kids haven’t really developed yet. </p>

<p>Our local high school starts with an intro biology class for 9th graders who are doing college prep work. 10th graders often take the intro chemistry class. From there, the kids go either into a biology 2 class, physics 1 or chemistry 2. There is a physics 2 class for kids who really like physics and a biology 3 class for those who really like biology. </p>

<p>I like things better at my old high school–earth science, chemistry, biology and physics…they were all 1 year survey classes.</p>

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<p>Maybe the classes are too rigorous - latin & physics in 9th grade? I would talk to the GC and carefully examine what classes to put him in next year. This may be sacreligious on CC but not every kid needs to take a super-competitive curriculum through high school.</p>

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<p>I’m a math tutor, but in reality most of the time I find my work involves being a major cheerleader of “attention to detail” and finding test taking strategies that work for kids. </p>

<p>We had a thread a while back where we talked about this problem. I’ll see if I can find it.</p>

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<p>my son is in a science-and-technology high school and they also start with physics… then do chemistry, biology and an instensive science in 12th grade</p>

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<p>Yes. I don’t know if I would start with physics, right away, either, but it is just the curriculum now. It’s not really like they give you a choice. And you have to pick your battles, in my experience. The good thing, in our case, is that there are several options–there is conceptual physics, which is kind of like what Hawkings writes about in his laymen books, less math intensive, and then there is the physics which will lead to AP, and then there is something more in the middle. But, then, given all the new DNA research and experiments my “student” kid did in bio and chem, these are really advanced disciplines, now, too, and so…what to do with a bright non-student except for love them the way that they are and encourage thier passions? Not every kid is going to go to Stanford, and some aren’t even going to go to the top STATE U. It’s okay, though, I’m in the strange minority which believes that admissions people do a really excellent job of picking the right kids for thier schools and that the admissions process, if done in good faith by the parent and student, will actually land a kid in a place where he/she can succeed AS THEY ARE. Not a bad deal imho.</p>

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<p>My D’s private school also does physics/chemistry/biology as the standard sequence for 9-11 grade. The physics is something called “conceptual physics” and only requires algebra I.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/642433-9th-grader-who-smart-but-struggling-math.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/642433-9th-grader-who-smart-but-struggling-math.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This is the earlier thread that I was talking about, started by 5boys about her 9th grade son. I guess things didn’t get better…:(</p>

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<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/701871-could-case-test-anxiety.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/701871-could-case-test-anxiety.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Here’s another thread where we talk about math test anxiety.</p>

<p>One thing that I’ve noticed in kids who think that they “can’t do math” is that they just give up if they come to a problem that doesn’t look like a problem they’ve seen before. </p>

<p>Some kids don’t think to manipulate a problem to get to another problem that they do know how to do. "Math is notorious for giving you a problem that looks like a “giraffe”. But you don’t know how to handle a “giraffe” problem. But you do know how to handle a “rhinoceros” problem. The trick is knowing what to do to the “giraffe” to make it look like a “rhinoceros.”</p>

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<p>LMNOP, any tricks for a kid who has the typical too fast, lack of attention to detail problems in math, but is also dysgraphic? One would like to say, carefully write each step of the math problem down, but for a dysgraphic kid, that’s difficult and distracting.</p>

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<p>5boys,
I am confused by your reaction. You did not have any estimate of what will show on report card? Don’t you have an idea based on his grades throught the school year?</p>

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<p>Elle: That is exactly DD’s problem. What’s the solution?</p>

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<p>CF–I don’t have any experience with dysgraphic kids. Not being a trained educator, I tell parents that I can help on explaining concepts and work on attention to detail issues but if their kids have a real learning disability when it comes to math, they need to get professional help.</p>

<p>I did have one student who was dysgraphic, now that I think about it. After I read the wiki article about dysgraphia, a lot of the symptoms are what he had. He was smart as a whip, read omnivorously, but really struggled when it came to writing things down on paper. His spelling was atrocious. When he had to actually write something, it would take forever and he would get so easily frustrated! </p>

<p>He could listen to a lecture and remember so much about it. But if a teacher required him to take copious notes on the lecture, he was sunk. A real auditory learner…</p>

<p>At school, he had an IEP that allowed him to have a “veg out” period every day to refresh his brain. By his senior year, he no longer needed the rest period.</p>

<p>We worked on getting the process of how to solve a problem down cold in his mind. He often verbally repeated the process steps before he began a problem. We especially worked on slowing down and paying more attention to detail as he went along. (He wasn’t much for reviewing.)</p>

<p>He was a tiger when it came to prepping, though–whether it was a music piece or a math test. He would tear down a solution (or a piece of music) and put it back together in his own way so that he understood it. </p>

<p>I agree that he never got to the point of writing down steps in a way that I would have liked.</p>

<p>His goal on a test was to slow down and work carefully on those problems that he KNEW he knew how to do (which is usually about 75-80% of any math test)–to suck out every point on those questions, to not leave any of those points on the table. He also got every homework point that he could–again, don’t leave any easy points on the table. </p>

<p>He was able to get Bs in his math classes, took calculus AB as a senior and took calculus 2 and 3 at the local community college. He’ll never be an A math student, but I think that he got to the point that he felt his math grades were not a giant black mark on his transcript.</p>

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<p>One thing you can do that helps some dysgraphic kids enormously is to let them use a keyboard to take class notes, and for written work including tests and quizzes, in class essays etc. This is a pretty simple accommodation but can make all the difference. In classes like math that are heavy on calculations and setting up formulae that the kid may fully understand but have great difficulty writing down by hand, there may be a need for extended time. (Obviously, you need a diagnosis and a plan for any of this to happen in school, and you’ll need heavy duty documentation that may involve ETS teacher observation forms to get the keyboard for SAT’s etc.)</p>

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<p>Anony, my son does have that accommodation, and it does help enormously-- but not for math. We haven’t figured out how to use a keyboard to take notes for math or write down math solutions.</p>

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<p>Same issue here. With math, the only things that helped were extended time (not for conceptualizing, but for the physical act of writing things down) and trying less hard to make what was written down look nice, as happened when he was younger and would simply erase all the math that looked bad or was illegible (although correct) and start over. And over. Note-taking was a source of on-going frustration. Fortunately, he was lucky enough to have a series of excellent, committed math teachers and was able to do well.</p>

<p>I also think that doing all the math homework can be an issue for these kids, as the physical act of writing all the problems is so time-consuming. There were nights when if all the math homework had gotten done, there would have been no time for any other homework, dinner, or sleep. We tried setting a time limit, urging him to go with every other problem or one each of every type of problem, but never found a really satisfactory system. Although we saw the benefits of practice and drill in math, the math homework time really had to have a ceiling. We decided that as long as his quizes and tests reflected a solid understanding of the material, we’d be flexible, and fortunately, the teachers were too, although there was never a formal arrangement regarding homework.</p>

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<p>5boys, You said he failed his math and latin finals. Was he doing poorly all year? And was his physics grade brought down by his final exam? I’m asking because 9th grade is the first year kids tend to have really hard finals (especially if this is when he’s taking Alg I) and there is an adjustment to knowing how to study for a final exam.</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone so much for all of your advice and support. Yes, this has been a problem this whole year in math. He had tutoring much of the year, but still didn’t seem to help.That is why I decided to have him tested. He was against it at first but now is on board. I should get the results soon, but like I said I’m almost 99% sure he has some sort of ADD or math disability. He usually is a strong latin student and actually had a B in the class last quarter, so that’s why I didn’t see it coming. I do think it is teacher related somewhat because she was expecting a baby any day the last semester and I think she did not much of a review. He did study. He has to now retake it and pass with a C- or better to move on to latin 3. I’m pretty confident he will do well on the review. He is at a VERY rigorous private college prep school, I think it is a little much for him, most kids are on the accelerated track, but he loves it so much in every other way. We have talked about limiting his schedule next year and he is not taking any AP’s. I want him to focus on improving his grades. He will go in Geometry next year, and Chemistry. I told him we will wait for the test results and talk again. They do have a great learning center there and if he needs it he will be in good hands.</p>