Help needed filling out daughters college list (LACs/small research)

@RayManta Your D sounds like a terrific kid. Reading about her, the aspect of service to others really comes through as genuine. That could be a good thing to play up in her apps.
You mention Colgate, which never gets a lot of love on CC. Anytime it’s brought up people race to the front of the line to call it too rich, white, Greek etc. So i’ll be the naysayer. We really liked it. Very positive, happy, friendly vibe and making big strides to diversify which was very apparent when we visited. And the career services/alum network is among the strongest anywhere. Gorgeous campus too.
Hamilton- if she liked Amherst, Brown, Bates, she probably would like Hamilton. And while it’s not a safety, your D would have much better odds there than at Amherst/Bowdoin/Swat.

@BookLvr Articles about Oberlin’s decision to reduce the number of Con students and increase the number of College students refers to a 40% acceptance rate for the entering class, although calculating it directly from the Common Data Set makes it look like 36%, though that might be for the entering class of '22 rather than '23. It has bounced around in the mid 30% range for a couple years now.

@BookLvr I haven’t seen an Oberlin acceptance rate for this year but this article states it was 39% overall last year. They’ve slipped some the past few years.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/04/18/amid-budget-deficits-and-unfavorable-demographics-oberlin-pushes-do-more-less

Could not agree more.
A close friend’s daughter is a Colgate alumna, disliked partying, and is now a librarian. She had a wonderful 4 years. The college is strikingly beautiful.

My daughter, who was born and raised in SoCal and whose extended family hails from central Florida, initially wanted to leave palm trees behind for her college years in order to enjoy the “classic” (i.e., Northeastern 4-season) college experience. She ended up turning down Cornell (and a merit scholarship at WashU) to attend Rice, which is located in a city that is an interesting blend of SoCal and Florida . . . and that is not lacking in palm trees. She visited campus once during the summer after her senior year, and again in the spring during Owl Days (for admitted students). Those visits were enough to tip the scales to Rice, and she ended up having a wonderful experience there.

If your daughter would be willing to bracket her desires to a) leave the South and b) stay east of the Mississippi, then she might find that, given her interests and her other criteria for school choice, Rice would be a place she could fall in love with. As a Duke grad, I can certainly say that Rice feels much less “Southern” than does Duke, so if she would consider Duke as a reach, despite its geographical location, I think she would be doing herself a favor by extending the same consideration to Rice. It is also a reach, of course, but for someone with your daughter’s profile, it’s a reach worth reaching for. Good luck!

PS: I would also note that flights between Tampa and Houston are frequent, short, and often cheap.

^Yeah, once you add WUSTL to the mix, you are sort of opening the door to Rice, Duke, Emory and circling back to Vandy again. And, of course, if palm trees are on the table, why stop at Rice? You might as well go all the way to Cali. (Oops. Keep forgetting that smilie.) :slight_smile:

@RayManta,
My son also did the IB and I appreciate that it’s a time eater. But what I’m trying to express is important not only to getting accepted, but also to deciding which colleges to apply to.

As I said fit is a two way street. Applicants need to consider the personality and culture of the schools on their lists, and the schools need to consider the personality and culture of the applicants that they accept. Students want the colleges to fit their educational and social needs, and the colleges want the students to fit their student profile. This is especially true of small LACs where students need to wear several hats in order to fulfill the schools’ academic and non-academic needs.

So I think defining and enlarging on what your daughter likes to do outside of the classroom is important, both to help her understand the culture of each school and to understand what the school is looking for. I hesitate to use the term extra-curriculars because ECs conjures up student council, sports teams and yearbooks. These are all good as far as they go, but selective colleges, where everyone is smart and intellectually curious, are looking for something more.

I’m less concerned about leadership, because as you say, some activities are introspective and not communal, but it’s important to demonstrate a deep and wide commitment and a progression of growth.

In the next six months, your daughter needs to hone her profile, not make up or pad accomplishments, but rather select, expand and refine her interests so that a clear and compact image comes into focus. The application is a brief and narrow window of opportunity for applicants to communicate who they are, what excites them, what they can contribute to the campus community and how they will fit in with the prevailing culture. Through essays, recommendations, resumes and supplements she can control the narrative so that each element reinforces how she wants to be perceived.

Your daughter has a lot to work with. She has plenty of ingredients, but her application has to bake the cake. Working full time at a lab is an excellent starting point to put tangible energy behind her academic and career goals. Playing the piano at midnight has the making of a good essay. Follow the lead: her interest in music, her eagerness in participating in the school’s ensembles, maybe a music supplement. Same for swimming and service opportunities.

Once she has defined her non-academic driving forces, she’ll be able to focus on schools that fit well with her personality and interests, and once she identifies her own points of differentiation she’ll be able to choose and eliminate schools based on cultural and social fit.

I’ve read through this whole thread and while Hamilton keeps bubbling up it seems it never makes it to your must visit list. I think it’s a perfect fit for your D and before committing to ED or ED2 Bates you should visit and interview at Hamilton as they are of a similar level of difficulty to get into.

You mention your D wants trees- Hamilton is a much more spacious campus than Bates with a beautiful glen to spend time in nature. Less isolated than Williams but similar to its sweeping beauty. Clinton is a tiny classic new england town a short walk down a hill, and we were pleasantly surprised by nearby Utica which has a nascent foodie culture and lots of beautiful early 1900’s industrial and residential architecture.

While there is greek life it’s super mellow, and the new arts building brings in an eclectic student body. Very warm and values personal integrity like Bates. I really think it’s a must for your daughter to look at in person.

Reach for the stars if she wants for ED1, then pick something slightly easier like Bates or Hamilton for ED2.

Oberlin acceptance rate 2019 - 32.7% https://www.educationcorner.com/colleges-with-lowest-acceptance-rates.html

Article on Oberlin enrollemnt swap (from April, 2019) https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/04/18/amid-budget-deficits-and-unfavorable-demographics-oberlin-pushes-do-more-less

@Aug2019 wrote

Use primary, not secondary sources. Oberlin’s class of 2022 acceptance rate was 36.2% http://www2.oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/www/cds/2018/

I have not seen class of 2023 acceptance rate yet, as others noted in #181/182

One thing on Hamilton with respect to its selectivity, if it was in a less populous location such as Maine, it would place highest in the state by both HS class standing and standardized scoring profiles. This wouldn’t, by itself, make Hamilton the most selective college in Maine, since acceptance rates also comprise a component of selectivity. However, I think it fairly reflects on the students who choose Hamilton as well as on the overall academics of the school.

My daughter did NOT lose her instate residency when I moved out of Florida. She was at a private school but continued to receive Bright Futures, a resident grant, and FL financial aid. I made it very clear to the school that I had moved but they said her affidavit of residency from the first year was still valid. Florida leaves it up to the schools to determine eligibility for state programs, including instate tuition.

My nephew kept his residency at UF. His mother moved right after he graduated from high school and he was good until he’d actually left the state for a year. If he’d continued at UF, they wouldn’t have changed his residency.

Your daughter should definitely apply to at least one Florida school and BF. You have to start using BF within 2 years of graduating from HS.

@merc81 Higher than Columbia or Cornell? Perhaps I am not understanding… But yes, certainly higher than Bates amd Colby, although I am not sure about Bowdoin.

@merc81 Ah ok, now I understand ;-/

In Florida, you can lose your resident status, if your parents leave the state (and you’re a dependent). There is a 12 month grace period.

Of course the School or the state have to become aware of the change.

https://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=1000-1099/1009/Sections/1009.21.html

Thanks again, folks. All very helpful.

The issue regarding the in-state status in Florida was described this way by our daughter’s GC.

I think things are slowing down here, so I am going to try to consolidate and sum up the advice here. Off the top of my head, Hamilton seems like a near-unanimous add for her, and there is some split opinion among Oberlin and Colgate, so they may be worth a visit to see how our daughter reacts. On the lower end, if memory serves, there was praise for Connecticut College, possibly Clark, as well as the women’s colleges. The others mentioned escape my Swiss-cheese memory at the moment.

This will take a few hours for me to go back and complete, but may be beneficial to others who are following based on their own situations.

@Mwfan1921 I didn’t have a primary source - which was why I included the link to the secondary, and it purported to be for the class of 2023 (this year’s acceptance %).

Conn College is a bit more available statistically but it is as astonishing excellent as any school on your list. It’s not lower. Honestly.

despite its high end NESCAC feel and academic culture, it has a very vibrant artistic and dance vibe. It’s a really interesting place.

All the New England nescac lacs are uniformly excellent. No big divergence to be found in the group.

Hamilton Colgate and the PA lacs are the same.

Im a big fan of the New England connections. The schools have huge embedded and proud alumni networks clustered heavily in the region. Decades and decades of grads who have stayed in the New England and NY area.

If you get to Boston, do yourself and child a favor and check out Boston College while you are there. It’s bigger with 8k undergrads but really spectacular mid size with a liberal arts core at its heart. Plus you have the big time sports all within the very defined and beautiful campus. A little hilly but everything right there and in a very leafy and safe surrounding neighborhood. With the benefit of America’s college city at your fingertips.

OP - Finding 15 grassy campuses with reasonably estimable reputations isn’t as complicated as a thread of this length might indicate, A few Ivies, most of NESCAC, and you’re almost there. Unlike most posters at this stage of the game, you seem to have the means and motivation to do a lot of visiting. I tip my hat to you. :smiley:

You might want to read or have your D read the college guide book The Hidden Ivies-3rd edition. Most of the schools on your list and others you are considering are profiled. This book offers a more nuanced and in depth look than other guide books, so you may be able to pick up on the school vibe/strength/focus a bit more accurately.