IMO the OP and daughter have done a great job coming up with a coherent list of schools. My only advice would be to add in a couple of likely schools and if possible apply to a couple EA so as to cut down the holiday jitters if she decides not to apply ED or the ED school doesn’t come through.
Here’s a witty, hands-on, “visits” thread that’s already a year old:
We planned a visit to Colgate and since we were going to be in the area we decided to visit Hamilton. Colgate was nice, but our daughter was turned off by a repeated focus on working (internships and post-grad job placement). Nice campus, nice guide.
The next day…we were surprised how much we all liked Hamilton. We ended up back there again for an overnight visit, and Hamilton ended up losing a theoretical coin flip to another ED1 school. No application…but that’s not where her involvement ended.
At a holiday party after deciding not to apply to Hamilton, a friend of my daughter was expressing his general malaise regarding the applications he was sending out. She told him that she thought he would like Hamilton. He visited in early January, applied late for ED1 (admitted), and has really enjoyed his time there. I think Hamilton is very similar in feel to the Maine LAC’s.
Based on your daughter’s diverse interests, I’d recommend she strongly consider colleges with geosciences departments. She might not know now whether she would be interested in, for example, micropaleontology. However, if she chooses a school at which she can be introduced to the topic, she’ll have the opportunity to expand her academic range.
Thanks again, folks. You’ve all been amazing. I’ve summarized all your comments, and grouped them by school, which I’ll break out into several posts after this one. Hopefully, this will help others in a similar situation. I have some thoughts as to which schools to add to our list, but I think I need to show this summary to my daughter and let her ruminate over it first.
The one thing to point out is that some schools I broke off into their own sections, so if you don’t see a school discussed among the general “safeties,” that’s why.
Comments on the “help finding LAC safeties” thread:
- Comments on top schools:
There were a number of comments on the schools I had placed on my daughter’s “Reach” and “Match” lists, plus some additional schools that I hadn’t mentioned but were recommended by others. I will list the Universities first, followed by the LACs.
Princeton: Two posters mentioned Princeton favorably. While conceding that “you may not be looking for another reachy reach,” one argued that “Princeton would seem to make a lot of sense for someone with aspirations of Research - traditional grad school or possibly Medical Researcher (MD/PhD program).” That poster reasoned, “I think your D would be interested in the Integrated Science Curriculum offered for Frosh. Bio, Chem, Physics and CS all taught integrated including by Nobel prize winner. Numerous Mol majors and students looking at Research - it teaches you how to think like a researcher.”
Washington University: A poster described the students at Washington U. as “very high stat kids,” who seemingly “were never interested in liberal art schools at all,” and recounted “second hand stories that say that Wash U feels very competitive. Not collaborative. Kids compare grades. Students from our high school say it’s no different than our high school where everyone knows each other’s grades.” The school’s location is “not right in St Louis but west of the city bordered on the east by a large park with Museums and the Zoo nearby. To the north through a lovely residential area is the Delmar Loop with great restaurants and shops (kind of like a small town’s downtown). All in all it’s a very nice location. Highly ranked dorms and food too. The people are the nicest you’d ever meet. They like full pay. Lots of upper middle and upper class kids - I believe they have the highest average family income for students.” A different poster gave a similar sentiment: “I suspect the “city” issue won’t be that bad regarding Wash U. It actually reminded me of Brown. Campus is pretty self-contained, it seemed like you could go days without even seeing a building that is off campus, except in the distance.” That poster recounted a nearby street reminiscent of Brown, with “Restaurants, cute shops, etc.” Although she “isn’t really a city person,” the poster’s daughter “loved the campus and that immediately adjacent area.”
Rice: One poster said that “Rice would be a place she could fall in love with,” a place that “feels much less “Southern” than does Duke, so if she would consider Duke as a reach, despite its geographical location, I think she would be doing herself a favor by extending the same consideration to Rice. It is also a reach, of course, but for someone with your daughter’s profile, it’s a reach worth reaching for.”
Northwestern: Given my daughter’s interest in possibly double minoring, one poster stated that she “may also want to look into schools that are on a quarter system where it’s easier to add double majors and minors. Northwestern comes to mind but they would obviously be another reach school which you don’t need.”
Tufts: One person wrote, “Most kids who like Brown also like Tufts. There are differences between the two, of course, but very similar vibe. I am a little surprised that she could like Brown enough to consider it as a top contender but not like Tufts at all. While this is a bit anecdotal, Tufts seems to place more emphasis on stats, which could be good for your D.”
Boston College: Boston College was brought up once, and I will mention it here, even though it’s an easier admit than the other schools listed above. That poster wrote, “If you get to Boston, do yourself and child a favor and check out Boston College while you are there. It’s bigger with 8k undergrads but really spectacular mid-size with a liberal arts core at its heart. Plus you have the big time sports all within the very defined and beautiful campus. A little hilly but everything right there and in a very leafy and safe surrounding neighborhood. With the benefit of America’s college city at your fingertips.”
Now to the LACs:
Wesleyan: While one poster predicted, “don’t be surprised if DD circles back to it; at this point she’s looking for reasonable amalgams of Brown and Amherst and - trust me - there aren’t that many,” another revealed that “Wesleyan is close enough to a busy commercial center (that rapidly slows down after dark) that it would be a hard sell for anyone who wishes to avoid city life.” Another poster wrote, “Oddly my D didn’t respond to Wesleyan and Tufts either. I loved them both.”
Swarthmore/Haverford: Although relatively similar in size, “they do feel different (for countless reasons).” A poster discussed “the very active connection between Haverford and Bryn Mawr,” and pointed out that “If you’re considering BM then you should appreciate that BM and Haverford are almost the same school with 2 campuses. My daughter is at Haverford, and last semester took 2 of her classes there. The buses run all the time, and the food at BM is sadly much better than Haverford (but you eat at either with a meal plan). Bryn Din has become a staple part of our daughter’s dining options. She’s glad she goes to Haverford, but she loves the options that BM provides. The gym is also a nice feature…less of the standard “meat market” feel on an all-girls campus. One last shout out for BM…they have a few of the most beautiful buildings I’ve ever been in…period.” Also, “Haverford’s campus is in a significantly better location than Swat. We love Swat, but there is almost nothing in “the ville.” Media is OK, but you need a car. The off-campus options for dining and entertainment at Haverford are really good. Trains to the city are almost a wash…but Haverford is closer.”
Bowdoin: One poster wrote, “For a girl, Bowdoin is a tough admit, so I would move that to the reach category. While most lacs get more female applicants, it is more pronounced at Bowdoin then at other NESCACs and the female admit rate is a couple points lower than for males.”
Amherst: One alum wrote, “I think this is a great school and am far from objective. I won’t say too much, but I was just up there for a reunion. The new science center is pretty awesome for someone with your daughter’s interests! I also really like the town of Amherst, which I think of as the quintessential college town. I also enjoyed the 5 college consortium.” Another poster linked Amherst to Brown and Hamilton, saying that the three “might be natural academic fits for her based on their notably flexible curricula. Amherst benefits additionally from its consortium. Hamilton benefits from the academic breadth and spatial variety inherent to its once having been two colleges.” However, one poster countered that “I’m not sure how ‘Greeky’ it is but it’s definitely ‘jocky’ and seems very ‘Bro’.”
Williams: One poster wrote, “Williams has strong science departments, a lot of kids major in STEM there. It’s also unique in that it’s one of the few LACs with more male than female students, so female applicants aren’t at as big of a demographic disadvantage.” However, “the town is tiny, really like one or 2 streets, but really not much smaller than Midd’s.” Someone agreed with “throwing Williams under the bus,” being unable to see her happy at “Bill-town,” as he/she put it, and not “in the Amherst ballpark in terms of plentiful places to go that are convenient for walking - or, even bicycling.” Although one poster noted that “Williams is VERY secluded,” another felt that “There’s a nice street or two with shops and restaurants right in the middle of campus, and the town of North Adams is a 10 minute drive away—it’s very easy to get to, both by shuttle or by catching a ride with someone else. And most students find that there’s so much stuff happening on campus that they don’t need to leave. I think that Williams fulfills basically all of your kid’s criteria and not including it on the list would be a lost opportunity, especially when you are applying to such similar schools (Bowdoin, Amherst).”
Colgate: There were a ton of comments about Colgate. One poster said that “Exciting things are happening there.” Several recommended we visit. One added that the school “had the best vibe” of all the schools we visited last year. If the place was a stock I’d buy it.” Yet in response, a different poster wrote, “Definitely in the eye of the beholder. It was a very strong “hell no” for my two LAC seeking children.” Another poster observed Colgate is “very Greek-heavy, wealthy, and preppy. Most New England LACs are rich and preppy to a certain extent, but Colgate nearly embodies those qualities and doesn’t do as well with regards to diversity.” That person also recommended a visit and added, “As a more intellectual student who’s into the arts, I thought I’d hate Colgate, but I actually ended up really liking it despite those qualities. It became one of my favorite schools outside the NESCAC.” Others also agreed Colgate may be “too Greek and preppy for her.” However, one poster pointed out that “Only a quarter of Colgate students participate in Greek life and it is highly regulated by the university. It is a fun option for some, but does not dominate Colgate’s social life.” She should visit “to decide for herself.”
Another person argued that Colgate “never gets a lot of love on CC,” and that “Anytime it’s brought up people race to the front of the line to call it too rich, white, Greek etc.” That poster went on to say, “We really liked it. Very positive, happy, friendly vibe and making big strides to diversify which was very apparent when we visited. And the career services/alum network is among the strongest anywhere. Gorgeous campus too.” A final commenter cited the example of a friend’s daughter, who “had a wonderful 4 years,” despite disliking partying. “The college is strikingly beautiful.”
Hamilton: There were a lot of strong comments about Hamilton, which has “few distribution requirements so it would be easier for her to double/triple major. Plus it has a nice balance between arts and sciences.”
Someone wrote, “Another great school. Love the open curriculum and the focus on writing. Some of my favorite marketing materials of any college we have seen, with a very clear message: “Study What You Love,” “Be Who You Are,” “Find Your Future.” Gorgeous arts center. For someone already attracted to Brown and Amherst, it makes a lot of sense to give this school a look.”
One poster wrote that they visited Hamilton after Colgate. While “Colgate was nice, [o]ur daughter was turned off by a repeated focus on working (internships and post-grad job placement).” But in contrast, “we were surprised how much we all liked Hamilton. We ended up back there again for an overnight visit, and Hamilton ended up losing a theoretical coin flip to another ED1 school.” But she was so taken by the school that she recommended it to a friend, who applied, was accepted, and “has really enjoyed his time there.” The poster concluded, “I think Hamilton is very similar in feel to the Maine LAC’s.”
A different poster agreed Hamilton is “a perfect fit for your D” and recommended that before committing Bates through early decision, “you should visit and interview at Hamilton as they are of a similar level of difficulty to get into.” This poster cited the beauty of the campus: “Hamilton is a much more spacious campus than Bates with a beautiful glen to spend time in nature. Less isolated than Williams but similar to its sweeping beauty.” And the nearby town: “Clinton is a tiny classic New England town a short walk down a hill, and we were pleasantly surprised by nearby Utica which has a nascent foodie culture and lots of beautiful early 1900’s industrial and residential architecture.” As far as student life goes: “While there is Greek life it’s super mellow, and the new arts building brings in an eclectic student body. Very warm and values personal integrity like Bates. I really think it’s a must for your daughter to look at in person.”
Two other commenters linked Hamilton with Amherst, Brown, and Bates, saying that if she likes those schools, she would likely feel an attraction to Hamilton. One added, “And while it’s not a safety, your D would have much better odds there than at Amherst/Bowdoin/Swat.” Another said, similarly, “It’s not as if Hamilton is an easy admit, but it will give your D better odds than most of the definites on her list. They used to publish admit rates by score, and those above a 1500 had a very good shot of admittance.”
The only mentioned drawback was that the town isn’t a convenient walk, as the school is located at the top of [a] steep hill[ ],” like at Colgate.
Maine LACs/Drinking Culture: One poster provided a general comment about the three Maine LACs: “All 3 of the Maine schools, and all of the other rural LACs for that matter, have a pretty vibrant drinking culture. This isn’t to say that a non-drinker won’t be happy there and find things to do, but they are like most remote schools in that they create a lot of their own entertainment and that tends toward parties with beer. All are great options for academics and I can certainly appreciate the appeal of Bates to her.”
Finally, this overall comment: “All the New England NESCAC LACs are uniformly excellent. No big divergence to be found in the group. Hamilton Colgate and the PA lacs are the same. I’m a big fan of the New England connections. The schools have huge embedded and proud alumni networks clustered heavily in the region. Decades and decades of grads who have stayed in the New England and NY area.”
- Potential safeties
This category was the goal of the thread, and posters didn’t disappoint. The comments are recounted below, however, several schools I have broken out separately later, so be sure to look for them.
The most support may have been for Connecticut College, which I know little about, so this was very helpful. One poster, thinking “She might like Connecticut College, too,” linked to a post from another recent thread, which is block-quoted below:
It is in the NESCAC league, yet it is not always mentioned alongside fellow members Williams, Middlebury, Hamilton, Bates, etc. It should be. Besides competing in their sports league, it has all the benefits of a top liberal arts college: a tight community of smart students who enjoy small classes with a lot of access to professors.
The campus is incredibly beautiful, with matching stone buildings with a sweeping view of the Long Island Sound. There is an arboretum on campus.
Conn has a fantastic career preparation program, with a series of workshops culminating in a paid internship for any student who attends all the workshops.
My family was impressed by the dorms when they visited.
Conn’s campus community is close-knit and delightfully quirky. The mascot is the camel. One fun event is the Camelympics, in which dorms compete in a variety of activities, some of which are athletic but many of which are word games and other types of activities. Seinfeld fans take note: Conn students also celebrate Festivus in December!
Conn is strong across the liberal arts and sciences, but is among the strongest of the small northeastern colleges in a few niche areas like botany and dance.
The students seem to be an interesting mix of a lot of theatre/music/dance/art artsy types, liberals, (note: it used to be all female and still has more women in the ratio), varsity athletes, prep school kids, etc… In other words, most students will be able to find friends that match their interests and hobbies, while also getting to know others who are different from themselves. There are no fraternities or similarly exclusive groups.
One sign of how professors there define their role as helping students to grow: my kid does not even go to Connecticut College, but a professor at Conn recently reached out to my son based on an op-ed my son had written that the professor had seen, and he offered his support and guidance.
Conn is located between Boston and New York City in New London, Connecticut.
Other comments: Connecticut College “is a bit more available statistically but it is as astonishing excellent as any school on your list. It’s not lower. Honestly.” About the locale, “New London is meh, but so is Lewiston, Maine. From my own experience, most students, even in tony, cute college towns spend most of their time on campus.” “Despite its high end NESCAC feel and academic culture, it has a very vibrant artistic and dance vibe. It’s a really interesting place.” One poster stated that “Bates, Hamilton, and Connecticut College are often overlaps.”
Another poster stated that Connecticut College “would be more of a good chance but not sure thing. It is not walking distance to a town though is a lovely campus, no Greek life, no football, feels fairly wealthy and east coast.” One person wrote, “I won’t call it a safety, given the current climate, but my guess is she’s probably a shoe-in,” but another warned she “would need to demonstrate interest in some way.”
Union College also received several comments. One poster wrote that it is “Excellent for sciences. About the right size. Not too urban.” Yet it “is a trimester school, which may appeal to some kids or drive others away, also is one of the few LACs with engineering.” Another poster’s niece attended Union, and wrote, “Lots of smart kids. Average ACT 28 - 32. Strong in engineering and sciences. It’s on the trimester program. Three ten week sessions. Acceptance rate around 36%. Some Greek but not dominant. Big into hockey I think. Nice campus. I’d put it in the same category as Dickinson. Should be a safety/match for your D. It’s a school I don’t see mentioned as often here as some of the others.”
However: “So here is the thing about Union— great sciences and lovely campus, but a very high percentage of sorority/frat participants in this college that historically was “the mother of fraternities.” . . . pretty much everyone goes Greek except minority and low-income students because of the high cost of participation.” Someone else added, “Don’t look at Union if she doesn’t like the vibe of a Greek school. Personally, I think that one would be a slam dunk on academics for her but it’s very social.”
Clark: Posters like Clark as a school, but were less enthusiastic about the locale. One poster wrote, “This would be a true safety for your daughter and I think she might really like it! It’s a great school and it is strong in the sciences. It also seems to have great experiential learning opportunities. My only concern about it in terms of your criteria is that it is definitely in a city, but the campus itself has green lawn quads, so it doesn’t have an urban feel when you are on campus. Oh! And it has a cute student social space called ‘Freudian Sip.’” Another poster visited with his/her daughter, and commented, “She really liked the academic side of it but felt like the kids were a little too quirky for her. It’s not in the best area, but it’s not a bad area either. Felt safe to me and they seem to have a good relationship with the neighborhood as they do tons of volunteering within the community. I would add it to your visit list if you come back to NE.” Another poster stated, “Clark is an excellent college in a dismal city. It doesn’t meet the OP’s daughter’s non-urban area criterion since it is in downtown Worcester. . . That being said, the Clark campus is pretty self-contained and students spend a fair amount of their time there. If Clark were in another city, I’m sure it would attract more students. I worked at Clark (Advancement/Development) and was impressed with the faculty, students, and alums I met. It would definitely be a safety for the OP’s daughter. She should definitely visit before applying.”
Skidmore: One poster stated that “Based on the rest of what you wrote in this thread, I bet she’d like Skidmore. Great campus environment- a really friendly place, and fun traditions like Beatlemore Skidmania. They also have some merit scholarships for the top science students, because they are building up their science departments and want to attract the best of the best. But be sure to demonstrate lots of interest.” However, another poster cautioned that Skidmore [is] not [a] safet[y] for an upper middle class girl . . . Acceptance rate for females at Skidmore is 27% with a 60/40 gender split.”
Dickinson: One poster simply said, “How about Dickinson College as a probable?” Like Denison and Franklin and Marshall, it is one “to consider that [is] a bit less selective.” Another “agrees that Dickinson might be a nice match for your D. There is a semester ‘abroad’ in DC program, an emphasis on sustainability on campus, and diversity of political opinion among the students.” Another drew the following comparison: “a kid who likes Tufts might like Dickinson.”
Franklin and Marshall: Like Dickinson and Denison, Franklin and Marshall is one “to consider that [is] a bit less selective.” One poster indicated that “Franklin and Marshall might be a good fit for her.” However, there is some Greek life to speak of: “It was a bit fratty for my kid, but if your daughter would be happy with a low key sorority, it might work for her. And it certainly offers one of the stronger science reputations of the small LAC’s at that level of admissions difficulty. The living-learning dorm situation provides an instant close community for new freshmen.” Another poster added that Franklin & Marshall does not have merit money, unlike Dickinson.”
Lehigh: Several folks believed “I think you’ll find Lehigh too Greek,” comparing it to Bucknell, Richmond, Duke and UVa as schools that “may be too Greek/preppy for her taste.”
Rhodes: One poster wrote, “As somewhat of a safety, Rhodes College in Memphis, Tennessee may be an interesting option for one interested in biology & medical research. Rhodes, I think, does offer generous merit scholarships.”
Allegheny College: Allegheny was mentioned by a few posters as a decent true safety. One noted it is “fairly strong in the sciences, and only a small handful of the selective liberal arts colleges (i.e. Harvey Mudd, Pomona, Lafayette) have more students majoring in STEM fields. Every student participates in research and produces a senior thesis.” Another added it has “Great science curriculum options, and has a friendly & beautiful campus to boot!”
Bard: Two posters mentioned Bard. One said it “is often described as a kind of Oberlin on steroids, very arty, very alternative, and students have to apply to their majors by showing substantive work and students can get denied by some of the most popular majors.” Similarly, another wrote that “Bard is at almost the opposite extreme of LACdom— a much quirkier, march-to-your-own-drummer type of crowd. It would need to be visited to see if it calls to her or not. But it is definitely is an amazing intellectual environment, and it offers the coolest mix of admissions options— see the website for the crazy range of ways to apply; Instant Decision is my personal favorite— interview and attend a class one day, and find out the admissions decision the next day!”
One poster mentioned New College of Florida very favorably. I note that New College is very close to where we live, which is a large negative for us, but to be complete in this summary, the poster wrote that “It’s an LAC in Sarasota, which I realize is not the right region, but she would qualify for in-state if she graduates from a Florida high school and it’s an incredibly intellectual campus with no Greek life, and while Sarasota is certainly a city, New College is bordered a little bit off center from Sarasota proper so you certainly don’t feel like you’re living in a big city, but you have plenty of big city amenities within driving distance. It seems like a really strong fit.”
Other schools mentioned in passing included: St Lawrence (“A student who likes Bowdoin and Midd, might consider St Lawrence”); Hobart and William-Smith Colleges; Knox; Hendrix, Gettysburg; Muhlenberg; Susquehanna, and Juniata. St. Lawrence had by far the most mentions among these. If she wants earlier notification, Agnes Scott in Decatur, GA and Clark in MA both give EA decisions by end of December, Goucher in MD and Dickinson in PA notify in February. Someone else recommended EA applications to Dickinson, Clark and Wheaton (Norton MA, not the religious one in IL). That way she’d know she had a solid acceptance in hand while waiting for her top choices.
Alfred is “unlikely to be a comfortable environment for a student with your daughter’s stats.”
Bucknell, like Lehigh and Richmond, “might be too Greek/preppy for her taste.” Add Lafayette to that as well.
Finally, William and Mary was mentioned as a good “match.”
- Comments on Women’s colleges:
There was a surprising amount of comment on the women’s colleges other than Wellesley: namely, Smith, Mt. Holyoke, and Bryn Mawr. As one poster said, “All offer excellent academics but are less competitive to get into than some others.” Smith and MHC are “slightly easier admits [than Wellesley] that are not urban.”
Smith “offers a particularly flexible curriculum,” with nice new science facilities in a “cool college town.” Smith and Mt Holyoke “are both excellent in the sciences.” One person opined that “I think she’d like Smith over MHC . . . MHC doesn’t have much of a town to walk to but Smith has Northampton.” One poster’s daughter thought MHC was “too remote.”
Like Smith, Bryn Mawr is “very strong in sciences.” It is “easier to get into and [my daughter’s] list needs more matches and safeties.”
Finally, one poster noted that there is the opportunity for “Good merit at Holyoke and Bryn Mawr and all three are in consortiums where she can take classes at other colleges.”
- Rochester:
Ah, my alma mater. There were a handful of comments on Rochester, and nothing negative. One called it a “good option.” Another recommended we “Definitely include Rochester,” but “wouldn’t consider it a safety, despite the slight hook. Maybe a match…but she would still need to demonstrate interest.” A different poster wrote, “What your daughter’s looking for really describes their student body. FWIW, my daughter did not want an urban setting either, and yet that’s where she ended up. Roch’s campus is very self-contained, and Rochester just doesn’t feel very urban.” There was also agreement that Rochester and Case were similar kinds of schools, and that “If your D is outdoorsy at all, Rochester is probably the better bet and you have legacy advantage there as well.”
- Case Western:
Let’s follow U of R with CWRU. One poster summarized Case Western by describing it as “a small to medium research college combined years ago with a liberal arts college…has lots to offer.” However, there was no disagreement that Case and Rochester are similar schools, and that (as written above) if my daughter “is outdoorsy at all, Rochester is probably the better bet and you have legacy advantage there as well,” an important factor because “Case has become an increasingly challenging admit in the last few years.” One poster commented that “demonstrated interest is important at Case Western if she decides to apply,” and noted that “Merit up to low 30s is possible.”
- Brandeis:
Three people gave a shout-out to Brandeis, stating it “offers undergraduate research opportunities,” and is “very well regarded, solid in STEM, and may have the vibe she likes as a very small research Univ. that feels like a LAC.” It also offers merit aid.
- Bates:
One poster remarked, “Bates seems perfect for what she wants.” Another added a similar sentiment: “I think if she loved Bates, I would apply there ED and be done with the whole process, unless you would rather she take a lesser school that might offer her merit money. She has a shot at Brown, but I don’t see Bates as a big drop-off and it really seems like a good fit for her.” The school has “No Greek life, has the qualities she seems to want.” A Bates grad opined that “I think it would be a great school for her. Her stats seem really in line. It’s a big “interest” school, but also given all the gamesmanship in college applications, nothing is guaranteed.” One poster noted that if she likes Bates, she should interview, reasoning that “ED to Bates would make it a solid match or probable, but at RD it’s a different story. Lots of high stat kids get WL at RD, so the interview can help.”
One poster, however, revealed that Bates was initially his/her daughter’s favorite, but ultimately chose Colby “after doing overnights at both. She thought Bates felt too small (the campus) plus she was named a Presidential Scholar at Colby which was too good to pass up.”
- Oberlin:
Talk about a polarizing school. One poster “really loved it,” adding that “It’s a lovely school with what appeared to be the happiest students we’ve seen on any campus.” Another poster said his/her daughter loved Oberlin, where she enrolled, stating “I have spent time on campus there and have not found it liberal in the extreme. However, I suspect there may be some variation according to one’s major - gender studies and film studies are probably more resolutely politicized than STEM fields or the Conservatory.” Another poster wrote, “My daughter LOVES Oberlin and the tour guide kept throwing out additional things that were perfect for my daughter like “vegan/vegetarian co-ops” and “sci-fi hall” and “$5 art rentals.” Oberlin has a strong sense of institutional identity. Its marketing campaign is “Think One Person Can Change the World? So Do We”.”
On the negative side, one poster stated that the school was “very activist,” and that their son “really did not fit with the kids.” Another stated that although Oberlin is “very strong in the sciences and we liked campus and the town [,] it just didn’t fit in other ways.” That poster went on to explain that “We went to a number of break-out sessions with faculty and students, on a tour, and we ate lunch in the cafeteria. We loved the faculty. They were very welcoming and passionate. The kids were very crunchy and outspoken.
Our tour guide told the prospective students that they have to have a social justice issue if they plan to fit in. She was pushy about it. Then, S19 went to a breakout just for students and, with ten Oberlin students on the panel, he thought he didn’t match up with any of them. They were all very much like our tour guide. We toured Kenyon, Grinnell, Denison, Davidson, Macalester, Carleton, Bowdoin, Colby, W&M, U Chicago, and Northwestern and Oberlin felt very different than all of them in their social justice push. I will say, if that is something a student is interested in, then they would love it there. The students we met were definitely happy campers. They found a great fit.”
In reply to the above post, one person wrote, “I can assure you that it’s not a requirement to have a ‘cause,’ either for admission or social acceptance. For sure, there is a crunchy granola vibe that may not be to everybody’s taste and it might not vibe with your kid. But I know of plenty of kids who are more mainstream who are doing just fine there so I wouldn’t dismiss it prior to a campus visit. No Greek life.”
The overarching conclusion is that “Oberlin can be a very polarizing school. Definitely one that should be visited, IMO.” One poster indicated that “Oberlin tends to attract a particular flavor of students, and you definitely want to visit before applying. My daughter could tell within about 20 minutes that this was a big YES for her…but as you can see upthread, for other students, it was a no.”
There is a general consensus that “while nothing is a sure thing these days,” my daughter’s chances “would [likely] be good.”
- Vassar:
Several posters commented that Vassar “sounded like a good fit,” although it “wouldn’t be a safety.” Another added it might be “worth a look.” It isn’t really urban—it is “accessible to NYC, but about 2 hours away, so it’s not an everyday trip for students.” Similarly, one described Vassar as a school that “isn’t urban at all and would be quite picturesque being on the Hudson River, except for the fact that Poughkeepsie isn’t very nice at all. Very run down.” Another confirmed, “The town of Poughkeepsie has some run-down areas but it’s also close to beautiful outdoor recreation opportunities.”
One poster opined: “If it was the vibe of Wesleyan that turned her off, Vassar may not be a good option, but I agree that on paper, it should be, especially if she likes Oberlin.”
- Richmond:
There were diverging opinions on Richmond. One poster whose daughter attends “has loved most of her professors and has developed good relationships with four or five of them. Her classes have been small and many are discussion-based. She is majoring in biology and has had really good experiences with all those classes so far. She’s doing lab research this summer and next year, and there seemed to be quite a few labs to choose from even though it’s a fairly small school.” The campus is “very self-contained and is very beautiful, but it is also easy to get into Richmond for shopping, dining, entertainment, etc.” One poster noted that you need a car to get downtown.
However, several posters indicated that Richmond may be “too Greek and preppy for her,” and other schools may “fit her better.” One in particular stated that Richmond “maybe a little more preprofessional and Greek and monied than many of the other schools on the list right now.” Another recommended we drop Richmond from consideration “if she doesn’t want Greek life.” An opposing view by one poster stated that his/her daughter is “not interested in sororities, not preppy and not into partying,” yet “she has definitely found similar students at Richmond and seems to be quite happy there.”
- Honors Colleges:
Several posters recommended that we consider public university honors colleges, where she might “thrive.” Only one was mentioned by name: The University of Vermont, which has received nothing but support from as many as five posters. One poster stated that “We have a friend who just picked the UVM honors college over a whole list of more “elite” schools that she was accepted at, many of which are on your daughter’s list. I’ve never visited but know a lot of happy kids who go there. My friend’s son doesn’t drink and just finished a great freshman year there. He was certainly never bored.” Another said that it “is a popular likely school for kids from New England who are applying to NESCACs as matches and reaches,” and that “Burlington’s a great college town and Montreal’s less than 2 hours away.” One poster thought my daughter could be offered a merit scholarship there.
- Midwest:
A number of posters chimed in with recommendations in the Midwest, both on the upper end and for probable/safeties. As noted in the thread, my daughter isn’t focused in that region, but that didn’t stop the recommendations from flowing!
In particular, there was love shown for Carleton and Grinnell. One said both schools “would fit her criteria really well.” Grinnell was described as a “Great school and seems like a great fit,” adding that his/her child “got about 20k merit there.” Another stated that Carleton “fits all of her criteria short of the MN location. She would find her people there for sure. There’s drinking but definitely not as much as at the NESCAC schools and kids are definitely accepting of a student’s plan not to drink. The town is adorable and walkable from campus and the school is 30 minutes from the Minneapolis airport . . . And it really, really sounds like a fit culturally. No frats or sororities and a friendly vibe.” Another poster added that Carleton has “Great science programs and slightly less partying than the NESCAC schools.”
Among lower-ranked Midwest schools, Lawrence (WI) and Kalamazoo (MI) were cited as “excellent options as well,” with the latter having “an emphasis on civic engagement that she may like.” Two posters mentioned St. Olaf “might be worth a look,” with one adding that “This was such a kind, welcoming place and we were assigned our very own student guide that tailored the campus tour to my daughter’s interests. The religious affiliation is not heavy-handed. I know atheists who have had a very happy time there. Great study abroad. No Greek life and a dry campus (in theory).
Others mentioned that might be worth a look were Kenyon, Whitman, Denison, Wooster, Ohio Wesleyan, Truman State and University of Minnesota – Morris. In particular, “Kenyon and Denison are similar to the NE schools in many ways but lower key. . . . [and] you shouldn’t disregard the possibility of merit money.” Another noted that “Ohio has several schools well worth a look – Ohio Wesleyan, Wooster, Denison, etc. They’re some of the top producers of PhDs in biology and are a bit more laidback than many of their northeastern peer schools.”
In sum, as one poster articulated, “Colleges clustered in the northeast and mid-Atlantic share a cultural heritage that is difficult to replicate in other parts of the country, but I would urge your daughter (and you) to try a little harder to generate interest in some of the other midwestern schools, e.g., Carleton, Kenyon, Macalester, Grinnell. Plus Oberlin which you’ve already identified. My guess (again, speculation) is that if she were to visit she would become a convert.”
- For more information.
A poster recommended that we look at two links: the Hidden Ivies list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_Ivies which will provide a range of excellent colleges that have acceptance rates that range from 42% to 9%. (Bowdoin is 8.9% this year) This, the poster said, would cover reach, match, and, perhaps, safeties. Though we may need to go to the Midwest to be safer in this list.
The second link was to a list of “Colleges that Change Lives”
I really like the hidden ivies list. Most aren’t trying to be anything but what they are and have strong identities but the point is valid. Not much to add to your really excellent and thoughtful synopsis
Now it’s the fun of visiting some of these schools. If it was like me last year, I changed my mind every time I went somewhere new, these schools are all so wonderful. Luckily my daughter was much more pragmatic than me!
Regarding nearby towns, note that Hamilton runs its own hourly jitney service. Trips take fewer than five minutes to the village, and about twenty minutes to nearby suburban areas:
https://www.hamilton.edu/campuslife/transportation/the-jitney
For a portrait of Clinton, this brief NBC video is interesting:
https://www.nbcsports.com/video/clinton-arena-2018-kraft-hockeyville-has-long-ice-hockey-history
Another vote here for Clark and Wheaton (in Mass) for solid Early Action safeties with good science facilities, faculty, and opportunity. She could probably continue swimming at both too, and Wheaton even has a small synchro club (not very common in New England). Also both of these schools are part of consortiums that could be of interest, particularly WPI classes available to the Clark students, and Wheaton students can take classes at Brown.
Another SLAC I don’t think I saw mentioned that may be a good safety for your daughter is Sarah Lawrence.
I agree that Dickinson and Bryn Mawr would be good additions, however we learned today that Dickinson won’t be offering early action next year. Bryn Mawr also does not have EA.
Mount Holyoke would be a nice safety for her list (and she could probably swim on the team).
By my count, that’s 12 reaches (not counting Wesleyan or Tufts); three matches (Hamilton, Bates and W&M); and about 3 dozen safeties.
@RayManta You have done a great service for parents by consolidating all of those comments by school. Perhaps when you are done, those could be extracted into a separate thread and pinned by a moderator for future applicants.
“Bryn Mawr also does not have EA.”
My fault for mentioning that it did. I accidentally pulled that info from the college’s post-bac program. Thanks for the correction. Bryn Mawr ha ED1 and ED2 only.
Finding EAs for a student wanting a liberal arts school is difficult. We used Dickinson but now it looks like they won’t have EA this fall. That advice is everywhere - find an EA school. But finding one that the liberal arts student truly likes is hard. There will be compromises for that EA school. Even Dickinson’s EA didn’t get S19 an answer until late January so we had no decisions until then. Luckily for him, he got the early postcard from W&M the first week of Feb and then an early RD decision from Grinnell a week later so that gave him some relief.
Furman has EA but I think @RayManta’s daughter preferred leaving the south.