“The limited competition by other FL students could help her at schools like Middlebury and Bates, maybe Swarthmore and the other super-competitive schools, too.”
Florida applicants aren’t a rare commodity. Don’t expect a boost from applying from FL.
@RayManta I’m a little confused because, in some of your posts, you say things like “I’ve been led to believe the an IB candidate is very attractive to colleges” but then you’ll backtrack and say you know that many schools on the list are big reaches and you understand the odds. Makes me wonder what your D thinks. Does she think she’s got a good chance of getting into the sub-20% schools on the list? Or does she fully understand that they are reaches? You’ll want her to have a very realistic mindset going into this. I don’t know how many times I had to re-show S19 the stats on who gets accepted to the top half of his list in order to bring him down from his expectations. I reminded him weekly that he could be choosing from his safer schools in the end and that he’d better take our visits to them seriously. Even as I felt confident in some lower acceptance rate schools like Hamilton or Carleton, I never once told him that!
Hi, @RayManta ! My daughter and I have visited several of the schools on your list.
AMHERST–I’m an alum so obviously I think this is a great school and am far from objective. 
I won’t say too much, but I was just up there for a reunion. The new science center is pretty awesome for someone with your daughter’s interests! I also really like the town of Amherst, which I think of as the quintessential college town. I also enjoyed the 5 college consortium.
CLARK–This would be a true safety for your daughter and I think she might really like it! It’s a great school and it is strong in the sciences. It also seems to have great experiential learning opportunities. My only concern about it in terms of your criteria is that it is definitely in a city, but the campus itself has green lawn quads, so it doesn’t have an urban feel when you are on campus. Oh! And it has a cute student social space called “Freudian Sip.”
HAMILTON–Another great school. Love the open curriculum and the focus on writing. Some of my favorite marketing materials of any college we have seen, with a very clear message: “Study What You Love,” “Be Who You Are,” “Find Your Future.” Gorgeous arts center. For someone already attracted to Brown and Amherst, it makes a lot of sense to give this school a look.
OBERLIN–Oberlin tends to attract a particular flavor of students, and you definitely want to visit before applying. My daughter could tell within about 20 minutes that this was a big YES for her…but as you can see upthread, for other students, it was a no. I recommend staying at the Hotel at Oberlin, which connects to the admissions office in what is thus far the most convenient arrangement I have seen for any campus visit. My daughter LOVES Oberlin and the tour guide kept throwing out additional things that were perfect for my daughter like “vegan/vegetarian co-ops” and “sci-fi hall” and “$5 art rentals.” Oberlin has a strong sense of institutional identity. It’s marketing campaign is “Think One Person Can Change the World? So Do We.”
Best wishes to your daughter in fine tuning what already sounds like a great list.
I think she’d like Smith over MHC based on that. MHC doesn’t have much of a town to walk to but Smith has Northampton. I’d also question her fitting in at Amherst based on her criteria. I’m not sure how ‘greeky’ it is but it’s definitely ‘jocky’ and seems very ‘Bro’. Did yo visit Amherst? If not then maybe a western Mass (Smith, MHC, Amherst, Williams) to Upstate NY (Skidmore, Colgate, Hamilton, etc) trip would be worthwhile.
I think Carleton fits all of her criteria short of the MN location. She would find her people there for sure. There’s drinking but definitely not as much as at the NESCAC schools and kids are definitely accepting of a student’s plan not to drink. The town is adorable and walkable from campus and the school is 30 minutes from the Minneapolis airport. Easy to get there. Top notch students with high stats but a little easier to get in and being from Florida could help. I think the acceptance rate hovers around 20% but that’s better than 10%! And it really, really sounds like a fit culturally. No frats or sororities and a friendly vibe.
Skidmore and Conn Coll are not safeties for an upper middle class girl, especially because both skew towards female-dominant student bodies. Acceptance rate for females at Skidmore is 27% with a 60/40 gender split. Conn Coll is getting closer to a safety, with a 42% acceptance rate for females and a surprisingly lower acceptance rate for males, 31%, but maybe too many males over-reach, thinking they are highly desirable at a female-dominant school, but don’t have the portfolio? In any event, Conn Coll would be more of a good chance but not sure thing. It is not walking distance to a town though is a lovely campus, no greek life, no football, feels fairly wealthy and east coast; for my athlete, the fact that athletic facilities are across a pedestrian bridge over a busy road, was a turn off.
Northeast safeties would be on the Allegheny, Susquehanna, Juniata, Muhlenberg spectrum. Clark could work too.
(And I did not realize Williams and Amherst don’t consider interviews, thank you! Needless to say, my LAC kid did not apply to those).
Just correcting a prior post- an out of state girls chances at William and Mary are below 15 percent. That is one of those schools where twice as many girls apply as boys, so I would have to say it is unlikely she will get in. I guess MHC is her safety, but this list seems seriously skewed to me. And there are plenty of great private schools in Florida, and the deep South, with extensive connections to elite LACs now.
I like the Carleton idea too even though you don’t like that part of the country. Great science programs and slightly less partying than the NESCAC schools.
Don’t look at Union if she doesn’t like the vibe of a Greek school. Personally, I think that one would be a slam dunk on academics for her but it’s very social.
All 3 of the Maine schools, and all of the other rural LACs for that matter, have a pretty vibrant drinking culture. This isn’t to say that a non-drinker won’t be happy there and find things to do, but they are like most remote schools in that they create a lot of their own entertainment and that tends toward parties with beer. All are great options for academics and I can certainly appreciate the appeal of Bates to her.
As for the IB, colleges see it as excellent prep. But it’s not a hook. Lots of kids with the IBD get turned down at top schools. I think you get that, but I have watched lots of IBD superstars from our school not have success at top schools.
One more thought… Most kids who like Brown also like Tufts. There are differences between the two, of course, but very similar vibe. I am a little surprised that she could like Brown enough to consider it as a top contender but not like Tufts at all. While this is a bit anecdotal, Tufts seems to place more emphasis on stats, which could be good for your D.
@RayManta I second what @Midwestmomofboys recommends regarding an early acceptance to a safety/match LAC to alleviate the stress. This was my D’s strategy and she had an acceptance from Wooster with merit in December. All of the schools that Midwestmom recommends align with your daughter’s preferences. Any is worth the cost of an application fee without a visit, as also might be the case for Beloit.
Probably farther than she wants to go, but I loved St Olaf in Northfield, MN, as another safer option (but no EA). On a hill overlooking a cute midwestern town. This was such a kind, welcoming place and we were assigned our very own student guide that tailored the campus tour to my daughter’s interests. The religious affiliation is not heavy-handed. I know atheists who have had a very happy time there. Great study abroad. No Greek life and a dry campus (in theory).
Finally, I am sorry that @homerdog’s son ended up with an overly strident SJW tour guide at Oberlin. I can assure you that it’s not a requirement to have a “cause,” either for admission or social acceptance. For sure, there is a crunchy granola vibe that may not be to everybody’s taste and it might not vibe with your kid. But I know of plenty of kids who are more mainstream who are doing just fine there so I wouldn’t dismiss it prior to a campus visit. No Greek life.
Finally, for my kid, the big differentiator (aside from physical environment) was getting to sit in on a class during campus visits. Yes, it’s only one data point and yes, you could end up with a non-representative experience. But for a high-achieving kid, what goes on in the classroom can be very eye-opening.
Edited to add that Carleton acceptance rate has dipped in recent years and takes a fair amount of its students in ED round. It should also be considered a reach.
Only a quarter of Colgate students participate in Greek life and it is highly regulated by the university. It is a fun option for some, but does not dominate Colgate’s social life. Again, I recommend your D go for a visit to decide for herself.
Hey @publisher. I always welcome and look forward to your comments. I’ve thought about mentioning Rhodes to her, but it doesn’t seem to fit with her desired location preferences (not the south, not in a city). I know it’s a really good school. Earlier in the process I tried to interest her in Vandy, but for the same reasons, she simply had no interest in even visiting. Same with Rice, despite the fact that she was impressed by a presentation by one of their admissions folks on one of the traveling circuit events (i.e., presentations by folks from several schools at a nearby location). I have to trust her on that. There’s also the need to be at a school with a reasonably-sized Jewish community, and Rhodes doesn’t have that (just 2% of the student body, I believe).
@homerdog. Touche. Well, I could go on and on about the benefits of an IB diploma, which are well-documented, but (a) the most complete study is ten years old, and (b) the infatuation of “holistic” since then has increased confusion and doubt. Again, to cite just one example, ten years ago Rochester reported that it accepted 100% of its IB candidates. No idea if that is still true today, although they do openly recruit them (google Rochester and IB), and offer merit money (but no idea how to how many IB students). Most people seem to think that “holistic” is terrific, but it really isn’t in terms of the predictability that used to exist. She knows that at all these schools it will come down to her essays, and we are trying to get her to think about them throughout the summer.
@BookLvr Thanks so much! She did visit Amherst and really liked her experience there. She thinks she would be a good fit there, despite its reputation as a bit of a college for prep school students.
@Dolemite I’ve asked her about Smith. It’s on her radar, but it seems like psychologically she would have to visit it before considering it. No one in our family has been there, so we don’t have a sense. Also, see my comment to @BookLvr about Amherst. I know it has that reputation, but it didn’t seem to bother her–she knows she will meet people she likes anywhere. The science center is pretty attractive.
@homerdog Thanks–yes, I know there are a number of terrific schools up there. The son of my supervisor at work will be attending Carleton, and it was his first choice over the other top LACs, so I’ve heard a little about it. I think the move from Florida to Minnesota is too drastic to her, to be honest. The most important thing is for her to be in an environment where she is comfortable and happy, and as this process has moved along she has really gravitated toward Pennsylvania/New England. I know it wasn’t your question, but she shudders when we mention Emory, for instance. She knows where she wants to be geographically, and we have to trust her on that.
@Midwestmomofboys Thanks. Honestly, given the current environment, one of my fears is that the schools you mention would reject her to protect their yield. I think they are below the sweet spot for her. At Allegheny, for instance, 12% of the incoming students had a math SAT score over 700 (hers was 780), and just 28% of the students were in the top 10% of their class (she is at 2%, at a magnet school). Not to pick on Allegheny–the father of a long-time friend spent his career as a professor there–but I suspect that they simply wouldn’t believe that she has any legit interest.
I’m AMAZED New College of Florida hasn’t been mentioned at all. It’s an LAC in Sarasota, which I realize is not the right region, but she would qualify for in-state if she graduates from a Florida high school and it’s an incredibly intellectual campus with no greek life, and while Sarasota is certainly a city, New College is bordered a little bit off center from Sarasota proper so you certainly don’t feel like you’re living in a big city, but you have plenty of big city amenities within driving distance. It seems like a really strong fit.
Although it is now 3 years ago, so ancient history by LAC admissions as most acceptance rates have only dropped, @lindagaf’s “average excellent,” full pay daughter’s path could be instructive – high stats, great kid, loves learning, the usual high-achieving kid ECs but no national awards or recruited athlete status to make them “shine.” As best I recall, daughter was choosing between Dickinson and Kenyon – great schools and a difficult choice – was waitlisted at several schools, deposited at Kenyon and then was admitted off Bates waitlist in mid-June and had 2 days or so to decide. Student loves loves love Bates, has had a phenomenal experience.
I’m beating a dead horse, so I’ll try to back out of this conversation after this. But, for a kid who is used to success, watching other kids in the fall get into state schools which may admit on a rolling basis while she is still submitting apps, then maybe getting an ED deferral, and then chewing their fingernails as the clock ticks slowly towards mid-late March, with a bunch of rejections and waitlists, and hopefully, a couple of admits, it can be painful. Having a few EA acceptances by December lets the kid know they are in somewhere, and helps them ride out the agony of RD decisions. Agnes Scott in Decatur, GA and Clark in MA both give EA decisions by end of December, Goucher in MD and Dickinson in PA notify in February.
@RayManta In regards to your comments about possible yield protection at somewhat less competitive LACs, my high stats kid got accepted with maximum merit to all that she applied. This has been the case for other families that we know at the schools that @Midwestmomofboys mentioned as well as places like Rhodes, Hendrix, Knox, etc. I think they are aware that there are high stats kids seeking merit to make a LAC experience possible and take their interest seriously.
@RayManta: Rice, Northwestern & Vanderbilt were mentioned as transfer options to consider if, for example, a small rural LAC turns out to be different than expected.
A lot of growth will occur over the course of a year in the life of a 17 or 18 year old. What looks good now, may not be as attractive in a year from now.
I understand the desire to experience New England seasons.
Just in case your daughter’s parameters change, I encourage you & her to consider the University of Vermont Honors College. She should be offered a merit scholarship. Burlington, Vermont is not a traditional city.
Your daughter’s profile, high stats & unlikely to be a college athlete, can make life at a small, rural LAC difficult if she doesn’t like to drink or party. Based on her profile, state university honors colleges should be considered as decisions are typically based on an applicant’s stats such as GPA & SAT or ACT scores.
I too remembered the helpful thread by @lindagraf-i think it did a lot of good in alerting parents to the current reality. Bluntly,OPs list looks good for around 2097-2009, not 2019 application season.
If Amherst currently offers strong appeal to your daughter, then this Forbes article should support her continued interest: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesportelli/2017/04/26/10-expensive-colleges-worth-every-penny-2017/.
I’d consider EA applications to Dickinson, Clark and Wheaton (Norton MA, not the religious one in IL). That way she’d know she had a solid acceptance in hand while waiting for her top choices.
ETA: these schools were on the lists of my kids who ended up at Bates.
Segueing slightly, Fall semester for your D is going to be crazy busy and she will have a ton of things pulling on her. I noticed for my D and her friends that the most days they could take off for college visits was two trips of two days each, that was it. Any more and they negatively impacted their grades or they missed very important EC events. If you are lucky enough to have the time and the money, I strongly suggest finishing all your first time visits this summer, and leaving the Fall for second visits.
I know summer visits aren’t as good because a lot of students aren’t there, but I think it still accomplishes things, such as (1) she will still get a feel for the campus and adjoining towns, (2) if you check in, it checks the box for interest, (3) I personally found that in the info sessions you can hear nuances that help in determining what the colleges value and are looking for in their student body, which helps you tailor your essays, and (4) your D might be able to get an interview.
Re Fall visits, I really urge your D to consider going ED at either Brown (because of legacy) or Bates. She should use one of her Fall visits to compare the two closely - so fly up Th night for a Friday visit, take the weekend to travel to the other and visit the other on a Monday and fly home that night.
Still on the visit theme, for the schools that are still on your list I think you’ve visited: Brown, Bates, Amherst, Middlebury, Swat, William & Mary and Rochester. As you know by now, your D really needs to be on the hunt for more matches and safeties, so I’d forget about visiting Williams or Wellesley and take them off the list, and concentrate on the other categories.
Going back to the topic of making the Fall easier, if she can at all motivate herself to finish the Common App and it’s essays over the summer, that will help her schedule tremendously in the Fall.
Not to make this even trickier but our S19 was dead set against drinking. Some may remember I had posts asking for advice on where he would fit if he didn’t want to drink. He’s a runner and those boys did not drink during high school and I would even say they looked down on the other athletes who would drink. Fast forward to last week when he was in Florida with some friends staying at my friend’s condo (with two parent chaperones and no where to go but the beach). We told the chaperones it was ok for them to have some beer. All of the boys drank while they played cards and watched horror movies in the evenings. Now, drinking isn’t some taboo thing and he’s sure he will go to parties and have a couple of beers. Kids grow up and change quickly.