Help needed filling out daughters college list (LACs/small research)

College Search & Selection
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@homerdog – Agreed. My D didn’t drink or go to parties in HS at all. Zero. She just finished her first year in college (she’s at a top 10 LAC not on your D’s list) and she goes out most weekends and drinks some. Not to excess but she’ll have a drink or two.

Same with her two BFFs who just finished first year at a T20 university and at another top 10 LAC (on your D’s list). All in HS were in the super academic crowd. It seems now that they are surrounded by people similarly serious about school, parties are more attractive. They are ‘her people’ and she feels comfortable. At least that’s my explanation. Maybe it’s just age and moving out. Not to say all kids do this – but I think it’s more common than not. It’s college, after all.

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“I too remembered the helpful thread by @lindagraf-i think it did a lot of good in alerting parents to the current reality.”

I did post a link to it back in post #83.

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I’m not sure if anyone already suggested this (I only read the first two pages of comments), but would she like Brandeis? It should be a likely-match-ish school (I agree the categories are getting harder) but very well regarded, solid in STEM, and may have the vibe she likes as a very small research Univ. that feels like a LAC. They offer merit.

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@RayManta - the comment about Amherst having a rep for being full of prep school kids is no longer true. It’s probably the most diverse lac out there.
A factor that will come into play beyond the IB thing, is the strength and reputation of your high school. Is it considered rigorous, well regarded, high grad rate and kids going to 4 year colleges? That’s helpful and certainly better than a school known for grade inflation etc.

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Thanks everyone. There are a lot of wonderful thoughts. We will take a close look at some of the probable/safety recommendations. The University of Vermont is a school in particular that hasn’t been on our radar. A couple of quick thoughts:

@allhailcorporate We live close to New College–too close for her. She needs to leave the area and I get that.

@Techno13 My family actually has a long connection with Brandeis, and while she would feel thrilled and honored to go to her parents’ alma maters, Brandeis is a different animal. It’s a terrific school, but those are some footprints she doesn’t want to follow, if you get me.

@gardenstategal Yeah, she didn’t connect with Tufts for some reason. If we left it on her list, it sounds like she would place it below all the other schools, including Bates, where she has a better chance of admittance. I don’t know why. Wesleyan, too.

Also, some of you pointed out that she will change over the years–believe me, no one gets that more than I do. But it’s ultimately her decision, and she has to find where she is comfortable. She is very conscious of her own self and individuality. Since a kid, she’s always been an adult whose body hasn’t finished growing.

The current reality is miserable, but she’ll find the right place for herself.

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I agree with throwing Williams under the bus. It’s hard to imagine DD, having added, “a town with places to go” within walking distance, to her list of criteria, really being happy with Bill-town. I would say the same with regard to just about every college on her bubble list. None of the towns are in the Amherst ballpark in terms of plentiful places to go that are convenient for walking - or, even bicycling. At Richmond, you’ll definitely need a car to get downtown; Colgate and Hamilton are both located at the top of steep hills.

Not going to relitigate Wesleyan, but, don’t be surprised if DD circles back to it; at this point she’s looking for reasonable amalgams of Brown and Amherst and - trust me - there aren’t that many.

Add another vote for University of Vermont. Another for Brandeis. And, especially, Oberlin.

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@RayManta oddly my D didn’t respond to Wesleyan and Tufts either. I loved them both. I am also a Brandeis grad so that was off the list too!!

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@RayManta It sounds like your daughter is lovely, great kid.

I’m a Bates grad and I think it would be a great school for her. Her stats seem really in line. It’s a big “interest” school, but also given all the gamesmanship in college applications, nothing is guaranteed.

I’m also a big fan of Connecticut College. I won’t call it a safety, given the current climate, but my guess is she’s probably a shoe-in. New London is meh, but so is Lewiston, Maine. From my own experience, most students, even in tony, cute college towns spend most of their time on campus.

Some of the posters have suggested some safeties she might like: Allegheny, Wooster, St. Lawrence, perhaps Hobart and William-Smith Colleges. I had a long talk with one of the admissions reps at Knox (where my son will be going) and he told me that they and a lot (I can’t say all) of the “Colleges that Change Lives” consortium don’t practice yield protection. Why not focus on some safeties in PA like Dickinson, Franklin and Marshall, Gettysburg?

You are right though - it seems harder to focus and come up with a good safety list.

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@wisteria100 Thanks for the tip about Amherst.

You make a great point about the strength and reputation of her high school. Without going into unnecessary detail, I believe it has a good reputation–at least the IB portion, which is about 15% of the class. Most of the IB kids end up at UF, FSU, or USF, simply because they are nearly free, with a smaller assortment of kids who leave the state to attend some Ivies, some of the California schools, Georgia Tech, Duke, etc. I don’t think any of last year’s graduates went to any of the LACs that I can recall. About a third of her class has dropped out since freshmen due to the rigor of the program, so take that for what it is worth.

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Well, I am unable to contradict @Theoden , Lord of the Mark of Rohan, so maybe we’re done. :smile:

Thanks for the insight. I had thought of F&M, but need to research it more. Another school in that range may be Alfred, too, which in my head is similar to Hobart, whether true or not.

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Alfred is unlikely to be a comfortable environment for a student with your daughter’s stats. Plus, Alfred has a very poor retention rate at approximately 74%.

@RayManta: This thread seems to be beating you down too much. Your daughter still has great stats.

Top 2% (two percent) of her class, 1500+ SAT scores, 4.00 UW GPA & an IB program. On top of this outstanding stats, you are capable & willing to be full pay.

She needs a challenging school with outstanding students like herself. In my opinion, you have received some solid advice in this thread as well as some poor / inappropriate school suggestions.

She should aim high, but needs to develop a theme in order to present herself as a competitive candidate for the most elite colleges & universities.

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Yes, a 16 year old looking at schools is different from the 18 year old actually going to college.

When I read all these posts about not wanting a school with Greek social life, how do they know? Because they watched Animal House? No sports? Well, why is everyone so interested in Ivy or NESCAC schools, which have chosen to set a lot of their rules, including admissions rules, based on staying part of an athletic conference? No need for a rec center because they’ve never worked out before so why would they need one now?

Some choices have to be made, but make sure they are things that really matter. Snow or no snow might really matter, but if snow in Maine is okay but snow in Michigan is not, I don’t think snow really matters.

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Bates is one of the schools that offers overnight visits to non-athletes who are considering applying to the school (unless this has changed recently). She’d get to attend classes as well as interview on campus.

I’d definitely recommend this for her if she’s considering ED. This could seal the deal for her. Or not!

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So is this a fair recap?

Some of the choices are being made because of geography - wanting to get out of the South yet wanting to stay near extended family (in MA and PA?).

I think they have a list as follows:
5 reaches: Brown (legacy), Bates, Amherst, Midd, Swat
2 match: Rochester (legacy), William & Mary

I was suggesting 1 EA likely such as Dickinson or Clark @ Publisher suggested UVM Honors. Interesting that Richmond (match) has EA, so if she likes her visit, if it were me, I’d definitely put in an EA app there. If D gets into any of her EA schools that she likes, she doesn’t have to submit any other apps for schools she likes less.

IMHO they need 2 likelies. So far I think they only have Dickinson, Clark, & UVM. Someone had suggested St. Lawrence. I think that’s why OP has been searching around for more suggestions of likely schools in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic to visit.

IMHO I think they also need 2 more matches. Here’s what was suggested for matches: Skidmore (27%), Richmond (30%), Bryn Mawr (34%), MHC (36%), Oberlin (40%), and Connecticut College (42%). Percentages are overall admission, not RD admission which is lower. Rochester (legacy) is around 30% and William & Mary around 34%.

Also suggested were: Colby (9%), Hamilton (16%). At those numbers, they fall more into the reach category. Hamilton seems like a good match for sciences, so they might consider swapping out Midd or Swat (9%) for that, depending on what D wants.

@Publisher is right that we sound like doom & gloom. If I had to bet, I think D would get into Rochester, and I think she has a good chance at one of the reaches if she applies ED. This is all about hedging that bet, though.

Using my numbers, they’d have 12 apps: 5 reach, 4 match (5 if she likes Richmond), 2 likely. I can’t see doing much more than that.

Any more recommendations for likely or match LACs for their D to visit in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic?

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@RayManta I decided to post a picture since some folks were thinking it was my real name. :wink:

Indeed the Lord of the Mark has spoken.

Again, with your daughter’s grades, test scores and intellectual curiosity, she would thrive at any of the schools she’s interested in (including her reaches). She’s perfect for and excellent, selective, Liberal Arts College in the NE or New England. I’m rooting for her.

I’m guessing you’ve also picked up that Safeties are the new Matches, Matches are new Reaches, and Reaches are the domain of the legacy, wealthy, brilliant, broke-the-mold, walk-on-water applicants. Also make room for URM, certain kinds of athletes, and just some quirky thing an admissions team may be looking for that year.

My guess if you stick to the Hidden Ivies list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_Ivies you will have a range of excellent colleges that have acceptance rates that range from 42% to 9%. (Bowdoin is 8.9% this year) This would cover your reach, match, and, perhaps, safeties. Though you may need to go to the Midwest to be safer in this list.

I would say that good, comfortable safeties for her would be in this list, “Colleges that Change Lives”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colleges_That_Change_Lives

Similar schools to these were mentioned: Hobart and William Smith, St. Lawrence, perhaps Muhlenberg.

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With respect to an aspect that should encourage your daughter moving forward, several of her current choices retain their students, and graduate them within 4-years, at among the highest rates in the nation.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

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Richmond was 27% overall this year.

If this matters to you, I would suggest looking into the friendliness of any school you consider toward Jewish kids and Israel. While the BDS movement has been around for awhile, things on campus have heated up lately. Among other events at other campuses, Williams student council recently denied a pro-Israel group’s request to exist.

This is something we considered, especially because our S wanted a liberal arts school. One thing we especially liked at Richmond was the Chaplaincy, which has a very active interfaith program - they had a school-funded trip to Poland this winter to spark more Jewish-Christian dialogue.

Just a thought.

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Bates. No Greek life, has the qualities she seems to want.

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Clark seems like a great safety for her and I was thinking about it before you mentioned it. We visited it with my D20. She really liked the academic side of it but felt like the kids were a little too quirky for her. It’s not in the best area, but it’s not a bad area either. Felt safe to me and they seem to have a good relationship with the neighborhood as they do tons of volunteering within the community. I would add it to your visit list if you come back to NE.

We have a friend who just picked the UVM honors college over a whole list of more “elite” schools that she was accepted at, many of which are on your daughter’s list. I’ve never visited but know a lot of happy kids who go there. My friend’s son doesn’t drink and just finished a great freshman year there. He was certainly never bored.

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@havenoidea Regarding events at Williams, the administration both denounced and reversed the council’s decision. The president herself, who is Jewish and teaches Jewish history, had put out statements regarding the issue and has indicated that there will be more steps taken to solve issues related to student governance.