@raymanta Demonstrated interest is important at Case Western if she decides to apply. It is possible to apply non-restrictive EA, with a response likely in late December. Merit up to low 30s is possible.
A visit to Case Western and Oberlin could be combined. They’re about an hour’s drive apart.
@privatebanker Thank you.
@momrath You make a very good, insightful point. This may come off as a gentle rant, but the truth of the matter is that the rigor of the IB program makes it nearly impossible to develop those sorts of interests. It is frustrating to her most of all. There is a large service requirement, which she fills by volunteering at a nearby art and music center two or three days a week (including three or four hours on Saturday). As a freshman and sophomore, she had to cram four years of volunteerism into two years in order to qualify for the Florida Bright Futures program, which she did at the local library (and where she is continuing to volunteer this summer while working full-time at the lab because the art center is closed for two months, and IB requires that she continue her volunteer work). She swims every day when she isn’t volunteering. For years she was participating in both synchronized swimming and regular swim team, and the time commitment for synchro is insane, with weekend-long competitions all over Florida, not to mention the drive to just get to and from practice (she eventually left the team because she couldn’t commit to traveling to nationals due to a planned summer trip to Israel that year). She comes home, has dinner, and studies until midnight, which includes working on her Extended Essay, which is an 18 month project. For three hours each Sunday morning she is a TA at the religious school at our temple, and she is involved in regional and state-wide activities for Jewish kids around the state. She often plays the piano at midnight because there is no other time. My wife sleeps with earplugs. Time management is a real problem for everyone. Recently, in fact, a handful of kids at her school were discovered forging their service time and were kicked out of the IB program. You have time to do one thing outside of school, and for her it is swimming (and I should point out that regular physical activity is also an IB requirement).
So I would say that what she brings to any college isn’t a particular ability, but an attitude. Above all else, she loves helping others who are less fortunate or struggling in some way and making their experiences better. During the extended memorial day weekend, the summer camp she went to when younger is converted to a camp for underprivileged kids from Atlanta, and she goes back to be a counselor, and gets so much out of the experience. She has done it each of the last two years, and is bummed that she will be unable to do it next year due to the final IB exams. Several times, when she could, she volunteered for a group called Give Kids the World, which is similar to Make A Wish Foundation and brings kids with life-threatening conditions to Disney World for a weekend. She has helped staff the cafeteria there, and loves doing it when she can. Sometimes she goes to local street festivals, and (when not staffing the booth for the Arts center) assist people to sign up to vote. She doesn’t do these things to pad her application, but because it is in her heart to do so. She’s interested in politics, and if she had more time, my guess is that she would devote it there, such as joining a political campaign as a volunteer.
Some of that attitude, I think, will come out in her letters of recommendation from her teachers–how she always participates, but credits everyone’s opinions and helps her classmates when they need help. Some of the rest–we are discussing how to best bring that out in her essays. Is that enough for some of these schools we are discussing? I don’t know. She doesn’t know. But to a large extent, that is the price of being IB.
Yeah. Just trying to keep track of whether Williams is “in”, “out” or still in the bubble is making my head spin. (Edit: added smilie) 
@RayManta did she continue syncronized swimming into the high school years? That sounds pretty interesting. I think her extracurriculars sound fine. Athletes are always looked highly upon for being good at time management. Is she swimming year round? Not just the high school swim season?
Yes, IB takes a lot of time. But so does taking all honors and AP classes when IB is not available. Our S19 had the same crazy schedule at your D. All school year (bc he ran XC/winter track/track), he was at practice until 6:00, home for dinner, homework until midnight. But he was able to get leadership positions in two local community service Junior Boards. Your D has quite a bit of service to show. Is there a way to get a leadership position for senior year? What has she done over the summers or this summer? Could she go big with one charity that is important to her?
I hate to say it but awards and leadership matter…at least for these elite schools on your D’s list.
I also think you’re still relying on IB being her ticket to one of these schools. Of course it’s impressive as are her grades but it won’t make her stand out against all of the high rigor kids applying to these schools.
I have been following with rapt interest, because as OP knows I have a very similar daughter who is a year behind. So expect a similar thread a year from now, but with slightly different requirements and background!
I hesitate to add a positive about a school when you seem to be more in cutting mode, but I suspect the “city” issue won’t be that bad regarding Wash U. It actually reminded me of Brown. Campus is pretty self contained, it seemed like you could go days without even seeing a building that is off campus, except in the distance. And I don’t remember the name of either street, but there is a street on the edge of campus by Brown that has a counterpart at Wash U. Restaurants, cute shops, etc. We were in St. Louis for a soccer tournament, and did a campus visit. We ate a few times just off campus on that street. I wasn’t there late at night, but I’m a protective paranoid dad walking around with at the time a 15yo girl, and it seemed fine to me. She isn’t really a city person, but loved the campus and that immediately adjacent area.
Since I’ve been preaching simplicity today…let me add some complexity.
@RayManta - The OP says that Swat (1,700 kids) is on the list and that Haverford (1,450) is too small. You have to draw the line somewhere, and they do feel different (for countless reasons). The one thing that you should appreciate is the very active connection between Haverford and Bryn Mawr. If you’re considering BM (as pointed out above) then you should appreciate that BM and Haverford are almost the same school with 2 campuses. My daughter is at Haverford, and last semester took 2 of her classes there. The buses run all the time, and the food at BM is sadly much better than Haverford (but you eat at either with a meal plan). Bryn Din has become a staple part of our daughter’s dining options. She’s glad she goes to Haverford, but she loves the options that BM provides. The gym is also a nice feature…less of the standard “meat market” feel on an all-girls campus. One last shout out for BM…they have a few of the most beautiful buildings I’ve ever been in…period.
The other point I’ll make…Haverford’s campus is in a significantly better location than Swat. We love Swat, but there is almost nothing in “the ville”. Media is OK, but you need a car. The off-campus options for dining and entertainment at Haverford are really good. Trains to the city are almost a wash…but Haverford is closer.
Edit…
The Quaker influence is much stronger at Haverford than other Quaker founded schools (like Swat). There are lots of options to get involved and volunteer.
^Thayer Street.
@EyeVeee Totally agree with your thoughts re: Haverford and when reading the original post thought the daughter would be a good fit for the school until the OP said she took it off her list. Also agree that Bryn Mawr is gorgeous. Both schools have a lot going for them , great location and academics. Bryn Mawr fits the bill because it is easier to get into and the list needs more matches and safeties. I think BM would be a low match for this applicant as long as she shows interest. And, as mentioned, the EA option is a real plus.
Delmar Loop by Wash U. After @circuitrider mentioned Thayer St it was bugging me so I googled. Not sure why I didn’t take the 30 seconds in the first place.
If you go there, eat at Seoul Taco. Yes, it seems like a bad idea, and I feel like fusion cusine misses more often than it hits. Seoul Taco does not miss.
We send quite a few kids to Wash U. They are very high stat kids. Our impression of Wash U is that it’s very pre-professional. The kids we know there were never interested in liberal art schools at all. Also, while you’ll definitely want the opinion of families who are actually at Wash U, I have second hand stories that say that Wash U feels very competitive. Not collaborative. Kids compare grades. Students from our high school say it’s no different than our high school where everyone knows each other’s grades.
@circuitrider After her visit at Williams, she really raved about it, but more recently she’s reconsidering due to its isolation. I think, as a result, she has come to the conclusion that she’d prefer Amherst, Swarthmore, and Bates. Whether it is off entirely may in part depend on how much additional work is involved to apply, especially given the low chance of acceptance. I wasn’t there with her, but I remember the interest being evident in the tone of her voice over the phone.
@EyeVeee We visited Haverford at the same time we visited Swarthmore, a year and a half ago on her first real college visitation trip (we were in Philly for Thanksgiving, so we figured, why not). The son of one of my best friends is at Haverford and is very happy there, but it didn’t grab my daughter like Swat did. You’re right–they are both small, but somehow Haverford seems smaller. Maybe it was a result of the class she sat in on being in the same building as the bookstore which is the same building as the admission office. And yes–we were told about the food at Bryn! We may go up to Philly for thanksgiving again this coming year, which would be a chance to take another look at Swat and Haverford and experience Bryn.
@dadof4kids We’re really struggling with Wash U., and it is so hard to visit. I guess one can combine it with the midwest LACs and take another flight.
@homerdog She stopped synchro at the start of her sophomore year. It is a really neat sport, which unfortunately is dying because all anyone knows about it is the biting satire. Also, the handmade suits are ridiculously expensive, not to mention the travel costs, so it is really a sport for the privileged, which is unfortunate. She has swum year-round since she was six, and has been on swim teams with national record holders and at least one Olympian (so far). She is a very different class of swimmer, but it is nice to see her former teammates have that sort of success.
She has some small leadership positions at school clubs and her temple’s youth group. She declined to run for office at the state level of the youth group, because she needed a mental break. A leadership position at a community organization is an interesting thought; she might be able to fill that sort of role at the art and music center, or possibly the local museum. I’ll mention it to her.
I’ve heard leadership seems to matter. It’s depressing and seems like to some extent it discriminates against introverts, but it is what it is. She is not an introvert, though, so my inner thoughts don’t really apply to her…
UVM is a popular likely school for kids from New England who are applying to NESCACs as matches and reaches. Burlington’s a great college town and Montreal’s less than 2 hours away.
@cjpski at a 14-15 percent acceptance rate, I wouldn’t categorize that as a match, but would say it’s a reach. I think the family took it off their list because their D wanted to stay closer to extended family.
@RayManta your D sounds like a terrific kid. Any school should be happy to have her. I’m hoping that her LOR really conveys her attitude and everything that she’s done, and that she has happy results.
As you so clearly conveyed, your D is busy! Time is at a premium! It seems like your D has a great list of reaches that she’s already seen and likes. I’d be very careful about letting her spend much more time visiting additional reach schools. She really needs to spend that time on demonstrating interest to the match schools. I hear you that the Common App makes it easy to throw in some extra apps to some match schools, so that’s minimal work, but I think these match schools are all very concerned with their yield, so if the app is the only contact the school has with your D, I think there’s a strong chance she’d be denied at that match school. And, she needs to put in the time finding a safety school she’d be genuinely happy at. I’m hopeful that UVM Honors will do that for her, but she needs another safety too.
@RayManta You said…
“Some of that attitude, I think, will come out in her letters of recommendation from her teachers–how she always participates, but credits everyone’s opinions and helps her classmates when they need help. Some of the rest–we are discussing how to best bring that out in her essays. Is that enough for some of these schools we are discussing? I don’t know. She doesn’t know. But to a large extent, that is the price of being IB.”
There is movement away from excessive EC these days. It seems more important to have 2-3 in depth than 10 just to click off boxes.
For goodness sake, she volunteers, studies hard, performs well at school and standardized tests, is involved in her religious community, loves music and is a competitive athlete. What more can be expected of a young woman?
Honestly, being an athlete doesn’t carry much weight at the most selective schools unless you are recruitable.
Showing interest is important, but there are ways to do it without scheduling a visit, which take their toll on time and budgets. For starters, your daughter can request to be put on mailing lists, email her admissions counselor at the school(s) with serious questions, and meet with admissions counselors who visit her high school.
@isoinfo has great recommendations for showing interest. Since OP said he had the budget, I think visiting can really help in whittling down a list to determine which schools you want to apply to. I know a couple of people who got rejected from their primary choices and then were visiting the schools they got into for the first time after getting accepted. The worst is when they do their visit then and decide they don’t like it. IMO, if you can afford it, visit before you apply.
Showing interest can also be accomplished by scheduling an interview with a local alum.
And if she gets into schools she has not visited, it is very difficult to see multiple schools in late March through mid-April. School is still in session then and flights get expensive. I still caution @RayManta to not let his D fall in love with reaches, though, and visiting those schools is usually not necessary for demonstrated interest. They don’t care. Save the visits for schools that historically care about interest and the schools with over 30 percent acceptance rate that are matches. Nothing worse than visiting a bunch of reaches and setting one’s heart on them just to be shut out and not knowing enough about the matches and safeties. We visited all match schools on the list and only one of the bigger reaches. We saw Bowdoin the summer before senior year mostly because I thought getting to Colby was important for interest’s sake and It was silly to not visit Bowdoin too if we were in Maine.
I probably told him ten times while we were on Bowdoin’s campus that only 7/100 kids get in so hold back on the enthusiasm until we get a decision. In fact, he did realize on our early trip to Bowdoin that his matches had a TON in common with it and the differences were really just location and vibe. That visit made him feel very content with his list of match schools.
RE: Post #133
@melvin123 --Where did you get that Oberlin 40% number? I’m just curious because I’ve seen more like 30%. I will be really excited if it is in fact 40% because that is one of my daughter’s top choices.