Help optimize S23 "Apply To" list

College Search & Selection
1

REQUEST: Please help reduce and optimize this list-- and maybe help with an additional safety school. Would be good to have options at the end of the day-- which Reaches are most likely? 13 is too many considering how much he is hating writing essays. Are they binned properly?

Is there enough hope for merit at BC, Wake, Emory to make it worth applying in Nov instead of Jan?

He loves New England, beautiful campus architecture, school spirit. He’s a bit preppy but only by CA standards. Likes outdoor activities, smaller classes, he values school-life balance but is not a partier/drinker. Small college town would be ideal but he’s open to other arrangements.

Demographics
White male
CA public HS

Intended Major(s)
economics, maybe classics minor, also interested in history and polysci

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores
GPA 4.0/4.6
Rank 6/400
ACT 35

Coursework
12 APs including 6APs Sr. Year

Awards
most prestigious school leadership award
several regional photography awards

Extracurriculars
4 yr Varsity Sport, Team captain
PT Job: photographer
PT Job: lake recreation (May-Sept only)
photography hobbyist
church service trips in the summer (not the pay to volunteer vacation kind)
Freshman orientation leader/mentor

Essays/LORs/Other
Common App essay is looking good but has not even started supplementals…
LOR: expected to be very good

Cost Constraints / Budget
not applying for financial aid. Some schools are worth $80k+/yr and some cost that much but aren’t worth it.

Schools

  • Safety *
    Univ. MA Amherst (any other ideas for safeties???)
  • Likely *
    Holy Cross
  • Hard Match *
    Wake Forest
    Boston College
  • Reach *
    Dartmouth (ED, legacy)
    Bowdoin (maybe ED2-- also really likes Notre Dame which doesn’t have ED/ED2)
    Notre Dame
    Amherst
    Middlebury
    Colby
    Emory
    Vanderbilt
    WUSTL
2

UVM (University of Vermont) seems like a natural safety given his list. He would probably get merit. If he’s open to small and rural, you should look into St. Lawrence and Hobart & William Smith.

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3

I notice a lot of the targeted schools have larger male populations. Have you considered SLACs where male applicants have an edge in admissions? I’d think that Vassar or Wesleyan(!) would be good possible candidates.

You’re out-of-state applicant for UMass Amherst, correct?

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What have the AP scores been so far?

Would your son have any interest or the right level of ability to be a walk-on on the college’s sport team?

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Yes we are OOS for UMass. I have tried to get him to look at Vassar and I agree with you it would be a good option. But we want the list shorter at this point, not longer,

Wesleyan we toured for his twin sister. She is applying there. He hated it. I was disappointed in Wes as well. Campus was not in good shape.

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So - you’ve decided some schools are worth $80K - but you know, for example, if you’re applying to UMASS - so you are ok with large public schools - at Arizona and Alabama you will be dirt cheap. But he loves New England - so UVM as another suggested - but UCONN, URI, UNH, U Maine - and while it’s not New England - maybe some NY schools - Binghamton being the one most consider. All will have honors and all will have smart kids - even if they aren’t highest rated (like a URI or U Maine) - U Maine attracts NMFs for example.

So are Dartmouth, Bowden, Amherst, Colby, Midd, etc. worth $80K+? Because if any isn’t, why apply? A school like Brandeis,i Rochester or Case Western at least gives you the possibility of merit.

Vandy, Emory, WUSTL have merit - not great odds but not impossible - and yes, they have extra apps for scholarships at Vandy/WUSTL and all three have a deadline where you must submit for consideration (Emory too) - so yes, applying by those deadlines is the only way to apply!!!

So as a parent - you have to decide - is a Bowdoin better than say a Hobart or St. Lawrence or Connecticut College, etc. with merit - so maybe $50-60K.

Because if the $40K public (you can go for much less but maybe not in New England) - but if that $40K public or $50K LAC is going to win out over $85K - then yes you can prune the list - if that makes sense. And the optimizing would be done by eliminating those schools that don’t offer merit.

So to me, that’s step one - you made the comment - some $80K schools aren’t worth it.

If they’re full pay and no chance of merit - take it off.

So to me - Colby - fine school no doubt - but know one has heard of it - does that bother you? I personally wouldn’t pay full for a school like that - no matter how wonderful it is, etc. But I’m not you.

You definitely need to hit the schools that have merit - even the best - by their deadline - if you can’t do that, you shouldn’t apply. For Emory, that’s November 15th - miss that - and then don’t apply, etc.

PS - you might consider schools as well in the mid atlantic - a Delaware, some of the PA privates like Dickinson, etc. - they’re not New England…but they’re not California or the South either - and you’ll open opportunities. Plus you have some like Wake already on there -as well as Emory, Vandy, and WUSTL - which don’t fit “New England”.

But you can look at schools like Furman (if religion is ok), Elon, UGA, Sewanee, Richmond and more…that are solid offerings that will be less. And W&L - because the Johnson Scholarship (yes, there’s a deadline) is unreal - and your kid would have a chance!!

My guidance as a parent who could afford but didn’t want to afford $80K. Set a budget. A hard budget - and $85K won’t be $85K in four years - and if that budget can’t be met, take it off…because if your kid is at Dartmouth and for four years you’re going to second guess the money, take that out of play now. Your mindset will be much better later!!

Good luck

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he is not reporting APs as he has only taken a few exams (posted on this yesterday in fact.) He’s taken 3/6 exams and gotten 4/4/5. Grades are all As. He’s a maybe walk on at a weaker D3 school. But he’s not particularly interested. He wants to do a club or intramural sport.

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8

Budget is not our primary concern. We would pay $80k+ for any of those reaches. But not for a safety school. Fortunately many of those do offer merit. I’ll check out the ones you mention. We are aware of the deadlines for merit. I just don’t know if he’s a strong enough candidate to bother with the early-for-merit deadlines. WUSTL/Vandy/BC/Emory all have early merit deadlines but which is most likely to accept him or offer him merit?

So I’m looking to prune the list to optimize acceptances, not to reduce cost.

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9

This analysis will help you compare the economics departments at liberal arts colleges based on faculty publishing: Economics rankings: US Economics Departments at Liberal Arts Colleges | IDEAS/RePEc.

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10

You probably already have these stats on merit aid, but this is the percentage of students without need who receive merit aid and the average amount of that aid award. Here’s the source I used.

  • Boston College: 2%, $24,888

  • Wake: 4%, $33,266

  • Emory: 11%, $23,521

  • U. of Notre Dame: 5%, $18,292

  • Vanderbilt: 15%, $19,359

  • Wash U.: 4%, $30,172

Just by the odds, Emory and Vanderbilt seem to give a much better chance. BC seems nearly pointless. The question is, if cost is not much of an issue here, wouldn’t picking the favorite schools and eliminating the non-favorites be the best path forward?

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11

You only need one true “safety”- as long it’s a place that he is happy to go, is sure to get into and you are happy to pay for.

If you want to trim the “reach” list, then the easiest variable is campus experience- has he been to all of them? any strong reactions to any of them? Instead of cutting, rank order the apps and have him work on the essays from fave to least fave. If he runs out of steam, he can simply not apply to the last ones.

If UMass-Amherst and Holy Cross are in the ‘only as a last resort’ category, then the weak spot in this list is the “match” group. If he blanks on all of his reaches, but gets Wake & BC with no (meaningful) merit, are you willing to pay for one of them? be really clear about that from the outset. If you are, great.

If you aren’t, then consider adding one or two places you are willing to pay for between the Safety & the Reach list

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12

Your son is a strong candidate at all the schools on this list; therefore, I ask if he would really ‘need’ the ED boost at Dartmouth? Is Dartmouth his number one choice? Perhaps consider EA to Notre Dame?

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Yes, we are not expecting merit at this level of school. I think he will apply early for merit at Emory. I agree BC isn’t worth pushing for the early deadline. Problem is he hasn’t visited WUSTL, Vandy, or Wake. We had a trip planned but the schools weren’t really offering tours anyway in August so we changed it to a trip to visit LACs in Maine instead.

14

Yes Dartmouth is #1 choice and he won’t get consideration as Legacy unless it’s in the ED round. Notre Dame has REA and it doesn’t appear to boost admissions chances very much.

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Then, I would be very surprised if ED to Dartmouth does not workout for him.

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Yes we would pay for Wake or BC. But he actually really loves Holy Cross. With merit he would probably choose it over Wake or BC. But HC isn’t really a safety though I’d be surprised if he was not accepted. I may try to get him to look at UVT. He might like it more than UMass.

He is already out of steam wrt essays :frowning:

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17

If he’s strong enough to be admitted, then he’s strong enough to get merit.

If he’s rejected he wasn’t getting in anyway.

Colleges fill from the early. Penn, for example is taking over half their class ED.

In most places, not just from a financial POV, hitting the early is an admissions advantage.

Btw your kid is worthy of any college in America so they are worthy of any merit award. Doesn’t mean they’ll get it but they are certainly qualified.

Maybe you can’t see it objectively but based on what you’ve written your child is a full on winner. Be proud …and given your ambitious list and yes they are worthy, now is the time to take that hard work and stretch them.

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18

Is $80k + worth for the reaches vs say $40k at Miami of Ohio with Honors or $20k Bama with Honors or $25k Arizona with Honors? That hundreds of thousands different.

If the answer is yes stay forth as you have the safety and hit every merit and early deadline. If you need to prune then prune by location or no chance of merit - ie Dartmouth out but Vandy still in etc. if they want New England like maybe Brandeis and Rochester for Vandy and WUSTL - more likely admits and merit and closer to the desired location. Still great names !!

Definitely look at W&L Johnson - near Ivy prestige…ie full pay worthy to you - for free !!!

Good luck.

19

Does your son really not have any preferences? Because frankly, that’s how I would cull the list, by taking off his least favorite schools.

If you’re looking for additional safeties, these are some schools I might look into. I tend to be conservative in my chancing, so there are some schools in my Likely category that others would probably put into the Extremely Likely one. You can take a look at their merit deadlines to see if any of them are after Dartmouth’s ED response date (which would not be surprising to me if it came back positive for your family). I would suspect that your son would be likely to get merit at pretty much all of these.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Gettysburg (PA ): about 2400 undergrads
  • Hobart William Smith (NY) about 1700 undergrads
  • Siena (NY): about 3500 undergrads
  • U. of the South (aka Sewanee) probably sounds like it’s out of left field, but @tsbna’s suggestion of this one seems as though it could really fit your kid. Gorgeous area with tons of outdoor opportunities, very small classes, and a preppy student body. Your son would surely get merit sufficient merit aid to bring the price into the low-mid $40s, and quite possibly even lower. (I know price is not your main issue, but it is for your likelier schools.)
  • Wheaton (MA): about 1700 undergrads

Likely (60-79%)

  • Dickinson (PA ): about 2200 undergrads. I’ve heard good things about Carlisle
  • Lehigh (PA ): about 5500 undergrads
  • Union (NY): about 2100 undergrads
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This is the order in which I would recommend your son complete applications:

  1. Dartmouth (ED)
  2. Holy Cross (if they respond back with merit, he may decide to skip Wake, BC and any other schools he likes less than Holy Cross). As 17% of students receive merit aid, and I strongly suspect he’d be in the top 17% of applicants, I’d be surprised if he didn’t get any merit aid. You might want to reach out to the admissions office to see if they’re doing rolling admissions, or they’re waiting until the deadline to review all applications.
  3. Any school that is likely to give good to great merit that he would prefer over the other colleges on his list that don’t give merit. If there aren’t any, then you could fit in Emory or Vanderbilt here. Or just skip the chances for merit at those two if your son’s not sufficiently into them to do the essays and stop after Holy Cross’ application.

STOP all other applications until Dartmouth makes its ED decision. If it’s not an admission, then go down the list by his next favorites which sound like Bowdoin, Notre Dame, and then whatever other schools he’s really interested in more than Holy Cross.

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