Help! Sophomore aid package much less than freshman!

Parents Forum
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<p>My son applied to 5 schools which use the profile and we had even a wider swings than 10,000 from best to worst package for us to pay after aid.</p>

<p>Looking at only the fafsa schools, we had huge gaps between FA offers as well (significantly different packages of over 10,000 spread for us to pay after the FA package, so very wide swings at those schools as well).</p>

<p>Deb, what is clear as that a school which does not meet full need can gap as much or as little as they would like to gap.</p>

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<p>*Actually, home equity alone would be enough for that type of difference – you would get that differential with about $180K worth of home equity. Depending on where they live, that could be a modest home – for example, a family living in a home valued at $300K, still owing $120K on the mortgage. *</p>

<p>I realize that, but their home equity would likely be the same from 2008 and 2009, yet the huge swing. So, I don’t think that’s it…unless Conn Col is so unethical that they “ignore” home equity for figuring incoming freshmen to give big packages, but then consider home equity for soph year on. :(</p>

<p>I do think that when this family contacted them with the job loss situation, they saw the potential of losing a valuable freshman. So, they took the suggested 2009 income from the family and ignored 2008 income. They probably wouldn’t have done that with a student with more average stats. The confusion is that they gave this special favor because of money situation and stats, not stats alone. So, when the money situation never materialized, there was no need (in their minds) to continue the special favor. </p>

<p>As Thumper says, there does seem to be a missing piece or two. That’s why I asked what the recent FAFSA EFC is. The OP mentioned earlier that FAFSA told her that her EFC changed because of work-study earnings. Well, we know that FAFSA does not include work-study earnings, so either she was given wrong info, or she misunderstood what she was told.</p>

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<p>My son applied to 5 schools which use the profile and we had even a wider swings than 10,000 from best to worst package for us to pay after aid.</p>

<p>Oh, I know…big swings comparing CSS “efc’s”</p>

<p>But…what was the widest swing UPWARD between FAFSA EFC and CSS “efc”…and what was your FAFSA EFC? </p>

<p>If there’s no NCP, no assets/no big equity, and the EFC wasn’t high to begin with, then I would really wonder why there could be a $10k+ difference.</p>

<p>I could see that if the FAFSA EFC was like $30k and the CSS efc is $40…because you’re dealing with bigger incomes - and the % difference is a 33% increase. </p>

<p>But in this case when the FAFSA EFC was lowish (indicating modest income/no big assets, I don’t see how a school can give a CSS efc that is about a 100% increase.</p>

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<p>One of the students I worked with this year had a FAFSA EFC of $16k, got a PROFILE expected contribution of $34k from one of the schools. Family doesn’t own a home, assets right around the asset protection limit, noting that would trigger such a huge difference. It was so out of whack with the other schools’ FA packages that all anyone could do was laugh.</p>

<p>Am working with another student this coming year. Boy, is there educating to be done. Parent has no idea how this all works, plus the family has stars in their eyes about athletic recruitment.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, this does occur at some schools. We made sure that all of our son’s scholarships were automatically renewable before we signed anything. Parents should also be concerned about any merit aid that is tied to a very high GPA - because things can happen. S just needs to maintain what the university calls ‘adequate yearly progress,’ and the requirements for that are very modest.</p>

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I know that Thumper. When I asked the OP about the “gap” I was asking about the very real “gap” between the FAFSA EFC and what she got. </p>

<p>The OP knows her FAFSA EFC. That is a number that would be on the SAR, right at the very top.</p>

<p>There is no such thing as a Profile “EFC” — but the “gap” between the FAFSA EFC and aid given is the number that tells the difference between the FAFSA and CSS Profile calculation. </p>

<p>Colleges don’t include this number on the piece of paper they send out with the financial aid award. </p>

<p>But I don’t just look at the paper they send out. I put all the numbers on a spread sheet, and I definitely use the FAFSA EFC (known) to calculate the VERY REAL, MONEY OUT OF MY POCKET “gap” that exists between the amount that my daughter’s so-called 100% need college expected me to pay and the FAFSA EFC. </p>

<p>And that’s the number that I was suggesting that the OP look at because it will give some clues into understanding what impact the income changes are having on the overall aid package. </p>

<p>If the GAP is consistent from year to year, but the FAFSA EFC has jumped up – that’s a different issue than if one year there was a much bigger GAP between FAFSA EFC and college-determined EFC. Since we don’t have the college’s formula in hand, that’s how we need to go about the analysis: by doing our own math.</p>

<p>You can call it what you want. You can buy into the college’s fiction that they meet 100% need and that they never “gap” any student… they just reserve the right to determine need by imputing assets and income to people that don’t exist – such as home equity that can’t be tapped, unrealized paper income from partnerships, income of non-contributing estranged parents, etc.</p>

<p>I say its a “gap”. You can call it whatever you want. But just because a college claims to meet 100% “need” doesn’t make it so. </p>

<p>I personally feel that unless the college is meeting 100% need as defined by FAFSA, it is not meeting full need, no matter what they say. I feel that because FAFSA is an outside determinant, with a set, published formula – so FAFSA provides a neutral point of determination. When the college is using its own formula to determine “need” – it is calling the shots – and my lawyer-brain just doesn’t buy the concept that one party to a contract has the right to determine what the other party “needs”. It’s just marketing hype that has been adopted by a lot of college, probably stemming back to the time that the College Board profile people sold them on the idea — but they aren’t meeting “need” no matter what they say. They simply are following their own internal formulae to determine how they allocate their financial aid.</p>

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<p>Schools that meet full need put their parent and student contributions in the aid letters…or at least the ones I’ve seen have that. Yes…the family contribution might be different when computed using info from the Profile. BUT remember…all the FAFSA does is give the student the federally funded need based aid. With the full Pell (EFC $0) and the max Stafford loan, a sophomore would get only $11,500…hardly enough to fund an education at Conn College. Students at these schools want institutional aid…that aid is based on the info provided on the Profile…which is different (I know Calmom…you know this but others might not).</p>

<p>And schools that offer need based aid ONLY do not do so based on the child’s stats. The stats get the student ACCEPTED. The family financials get the aid.</p>

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Not true – if they are in the later years of their mortgage, their payments would be reducing principal. If the college used the federal housing index to compute market value, that number kept on going up even after the housing market crashed, so I was seeing my own paper equity increasing by roughly +$30K from year to year.</p>

<p>But I was also suggesting that Conn College may have unilaterally waived consideration of the equity one year and not the next – for example, they may have an internal policy where they don’t consider equity home equity for families with incomes under a certain amount, but over the threshhold they consider the full equity. Or maybe they simply don’t count the equity if the parent is unemployed – but when the OP’s husband managed to increase his income despite the period of employment, that number got thrown back into the mix.</p>

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<p>Home equity is a huge wild card because there are so many different ways of figuring it. </p>

<p>The school could look at the actual, current market value of the home.</p>

<p>The school can rely on the federal housing index or some other outside data point instead. The federal housing index can result in an imputed value that is much lower than the actual market value in many areas of the country – and I would assume that in some cases it can result in a higher imputed value.</p>

<p>The school can cap the home equity in relation to income, and use a different multiplier: 1.5x income – 2.0x income, 2.5x income … or no cap at all. </p>

<p>This can produce huge variations.</p>

<p>Suppose my income is $50K, I live in a home with a market value of $450K but with a federal housing index value of $350K, and I owe $150K on the home. So a college might treat my home equity as being anything from $75k (1.5x income cap) to $300K (no cap, full market value). That’s the difference between +$4200 and +$16,800.</p>

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<p>Yes, but that number is not “need”. That number is what I call the “YOU PAY” number. </p>

<p>My daughter’s college called it “family resources”. That doesn’t mean I had that money in the bank. It’s just the number the college arbitrarily defined based on internal formulae and policy that have nothing whatsoever to do with real life considerations. </p>

<p>You are right that the FAFSA EFC exists for purposes of determining federal aid only – but the point is, that is the only outside, neutral figure we have to work with. Unless the figure is determined by a neutral arbiter, using a known standard, it can’t really be treated as reflecting “need” or anything else. If it can’t be audited or determined by an outside agency – then it is is NOT an objective figure.</p>

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<p>The schools can package their need-based aid in any way that they want – and it is quite possible that they package based on stats – or on other factors geared to attracting whatever students they want to the college. (They could also give favorable packaging based on athletic prowess, diversity factors, etc. – the main point is that the admissions department has communicated a request to the financial aid department that the particular student receive favorable aid packaging).</p>

<p>Look at it this way. Same COA, two families, both with a financial aid package of $30K.</p>

<p>Family A:</p>

<p>Grant: $30,000</p>

<p>Family B:
Grant: $23,000
Stafford Loan: $3500
Perkins Loan: $1000
Work Study: $2500</p>

<p>Both have the same amount of “need” met – the college has given each $30K worth of “aid”. But Family B needs to pay $7000 more for their kid to attend college - actually more than that when you factor in the loan origination fees and interest. It is true that an opportunity is given for the kid to work for the $2500, probably at a very low hourly rate – and it is true that the loans are subsidized and payment is deferred until after the kid graduates – but that is still a cost that the family – or the student – ultimately bears.</p>

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<p>Agreed Calmom…the packaging of the AMOUNT can be different.</p>

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<p>Two other points:</p>

<p>1)As stated previously COA at each school can have much elasticity based on reasons Calmom gave. ie athletics, diversity, “leadership”… COA including health insurance $2000, new wardrobe, travel funds $2K, laptop $2500, books and fees $3K-$7500, research supplies, research data retrieval, summer contribution waived $3K, tuition paid at ANOTHER university for summer, and what I LOVE under the heading of misc.- $1K-$4K. Saw all this with my 5 kiddos and more.</p>

<p>Also if Pell eligible one can also be SEOG eligible for up to another $4K. Federal monies that can affect institutional funds. Another possibility after matriculation at need-only schools that an endowed scholarship comes with additional funding besides academic year money. Money (employment) provided for summer work including free room/board/transportation that doesn’t affect EFC for the next year.</p>

<p>2)Have seen many, many financial aid packages with all the kiddos. Son had 20+ packages that included no home as asset (renters), no self-employed, really low EFC and packages varied by $15,000. And no this isn’t based on what they were awarding but on what was to be our out-of-pocket. HUGE difference.</p>

<p>WS also varied. Daughter had $6.50 per hour son was making more than $15 per hour. She was awarded more ws $ amount he was less, and he took almost no time to make the full amount since the per hour differential was large. Same family, same EFC, same YEAR!</p>

<p>And like someone else said, the award can change and that info is posted nowhere on the website!</p>

<p>For us the getting in part was just the first step in the process, the FA made our decisions.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Thanks, calmom, for answering my specific question. I actually understand everything you said (kudos to you because I struggle with the details of this aid stuff).</p>

<p>I did know about your 2 key questions (what GPA needs to be maintained to retain the merit aid, and does it increase with tuition), but those are good reminders.</p>

<p>In our case, non-custodial parent earns extremely little and has no assets, so that, if anything, will help us.</p>

<p>Again, thanks much for your help! I don’t know how you got to be so knowledgeable about all this…don’t even want to THINK about it. :)</p>

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<p>Re post #154: Since the ncp has no assets and little income, I think you probably should go ahead and apply for need based aid, filling out the CSS Profile – even if you don’t think you will qualify in the coming year.</p>

<p>Here’s why: many schools follow a policy concerning need-based aid that guarantees financial aid to students who applied for and/or qualified for such aid coming in, but they don’t promise need-based aid to students who came in as full pay students. </p>

<p>Since your income fluctuates, you may need help down the line, especially as other costs associated with college go up. So it might be good to essentially have laid the groundwork at your d’s college. Also it would be something to fall back on in the event that your daughter lost her merit scholarship for any reason. (Depending on her major and the GPA required for the merit money, that could be a real concern at many schools).</p>

<p>I think for someone in your situation, the question isn’t, “will dd qualify for need based aid next year” – but “will dd qualify for need based aid at any time during her 4 years in college.” Since you can’t predict the future … it’s worth it to keep that door open for the future. </p>

<p>You may want to research each school’s policies – its just that during the application year sometimes its just easier to go ahead and fill out the forms than spend hours trying to figure out the differing policies of a dozen different schools.</p>

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<p>@momofasongbird – I would go through the trouble of applying for need based aid the first year, even if you don’t think you’ll get any. This is because some colleges have very interesting need based policies. Smith for example (Where I went, in case that isn’t clear) is one of those “Meets 100% of need as we caculate it” schools, BUT if you don’t apply for financial aid as a first year you’re actually BARRED from applying again until you are a rising junior. So if you suddenly need aid as a sophomore you are SOL (well, I’m sure in reality they’d work with you ifyou really really needed it, but that’s not the official policy). </p>

<p>Whereas if you do apply for aid your first year, then you can apply or not apply as you choose for all of the years to come. So it’s worthwhile to do it the first time just avoid any potential problems down the road. </p>

<p>Of course, every school is different, but check the policy. If she doesn’t apply as a first year, find out if she’ll be excluded from application for the next three years.</p>

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<p>calmom and smithie, thank you! I’m sold. I was hoping someone would tell me, “Nah, skip those pesky forms,” but I clearly see why it makes sense to bite the bullet and get it done.</p>

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<p>universities and colleges are esentially a big business these days - mostly unregulated at that. They can and will do anything they please for the bottom line. Bait and switch is not beyond them. There is no transparency and non is required by the federal government. they are NEVER going to reveal their FA formula to you and you can’t compell them. What should actually happen to most families is that as you spend down each year for your child’s tuition, the FA should go up each year!!! It is a massive scam that we do not want to recognize since we have all been mesmerized by their marketing. I include myself in this group as well. If no mistakes were made and all the form were properly filled out an an appeal didn’t work, I would contact the attorney generals office in CT.</p>