<p>you should call them and express your need to hurry, since you have to decide by the first of May.</p>
<p>If I were you, I would choose "Columbia" and never look back. :)</p>
<p>Lilsmiley-</p>
<p>1) I have no desire for "old boy" experiences</p>
<p>2) I think you need to visit some other schools. Of course Columbia has community, but its not even close to the other Ivies or a place like Stanford. Where is everyone Sat night? 1020? the West End? EC apartments? None of which come close to other schools social venues.</p>
<p>I have visited some other schools. Their social venues seem to be just as divided as Columbia's. In fact, when I visited Yale, the kids said to me "Oh you're from Columbia? The parties are so much BETTER there I hear! Yeah, Yale parties are lame." My main issue is that you give a very distorted view of Columbia from a perspective of someone that maybe didn't feel as comfortable, so in any school you don't like, you feel that the social environment is isolating. I get that from people coming from all sorts of schools- social environment can be isolating anywhere.</p>
<p>As a grad student, I can agree with lilsmiley on the whole "lounging on the steps" thing, though I've been able to enjoy some afternoons studying on the grass (admittedly not as cool as sipping beer out of bagged bottles on the first day of spring, but I guess I'll take it).</p>
<p>That being said, I can see the rationale behind all sides of this argument. I know nothing about Stanford, so I won't touch it. As I've posted in other threads tonight, I went to undergrad at Northwestern, and while I think that community is a concern everywhere, Columbia seems far more disjointed, elitist, etc. I understand slipper's comments in re: a laid-back atmosphere that is lacking at Columbia. Like it or not, people at Columbia (well, undergrads moreso than grad students) tend to take themselves very seriously--too seriously, in my humble opinion. But that's just the tone of the place. Some people really like that atmosphere and feel that it drives them to do better work. There are those who don't necessarily want a "laid-back" atmosphere and would rather be somewhere intense and businesslike. After all, as intense and businesslike as Columbia seems, I know that these kids have some fun as well--most college students do, regardless of where they go. </p>
<p>Ultimately, I think that Columbia undergrads really seem to love the place and become fairly attached to it. In fact, I think it's fairly universal for students at a given college to take a lot of pride in it and identify strongly with it, regardless of the prevailing attitude and campus "spirit" (hell, if Caltech kids can get excited about their rivalry with MIT, then I'd imagine that Columbia kids can get excited about <em>something</em>).</p>
<p>The OP will probably look back on his college years with fondness, whether he picks Stanford or Columbia. In the unlikely event that the choice he makes is simply unbearable, a transfer is always an option.</p>
<p>I think Wildlion hit it on the head. Columbia is a serious environment - bottom line. Some find that refreshing, I found it cumbersome.</p>
<p>Let's face it, the rah rah types who paint their faces to go to sports events and celebrate wildly after a win aren't going to be at Columbia. While these kids are very visible at a places like Duke or Notre Dame, you won't see anybody like that running wildly around Columbia. The atmosphere is more serene than at some other colleges. You don't feel the rah rah excitement when you're on the Colulmbia campus. But, that's not to say there's nothing to get excited about. There are many clubs to join and there's the LLC to find people that share your interests. It's not going to come knocking on your door at Columbia. You will have to make an effort to find it, but it's there. Columbia is a low-key campus but there is definitely something for everybody if you seek it out.</p>
<p>I think people pigeonhole 2 types of college experiences 1) rah-rah sports, frats, "old boy", etc or 2) more urban, sophisticated, cultured.</p>
<p>This is patently false. </p>
<p>I barely hung out at frats at my college, never went to sporting events, but found a much more community oriented atmosphere. I probably have more undergrad friends than 95% of grad students and I really think Columbia heavily lacs in this area. Maybe my issue is I am comparing it to other community schools I know well like Brown and Dartmouth. But truthfully Columbia has the worst community of any top school I know and I have met many many ambivalent students. People clique of more than at other schools, and there aren't many common social venues to bring people together after freshmen year. People don't seem to love it overall.</p>
<p>hmm, well i just did an overnight there, and the whole lack of spirit thing really just didnt seem true at all. everywhere i went were people wearing columbia apparel and all the current students i met (including those who weren't hosts absolutely loved columbia. so in my view, they DO seem to love it. obviously, you didn't, but why try to paint it in such a harsh light slipper? every person is different, perhaps u needed the constant nudging and support of the "campus community" but columbia students are more independent. this does not mean cliquy or *****y, it means that they like to go out and get things in life. and im sorry, but cliques happen everywhere (i know that penn gets this complaint a lot, despite its more "campusy" feel). each person should decide for themselves where they feel the best and that's that.</p>
<p>I second sourpunchsk's post. I was labelling Columbia with all the characteristics slipper said before I went to visit. When I visited, the students I talked to all absolutely loved Columbia and said that it was just nonesense that there's no community, that it's hard to meet people. However, a current student at Penn that I talked to told me that, from her school, every year about 20 students go to Penn, and 20 to Columbia, and that those going to Columbia generally are unhappy once there, and those to Penn generally happy. Plus there ARE people on this board who say all these things about Columbia, that to be wary if attending there.</p>
<p>I think it's safe to conclude that these can be very subjective things. You just gotta see it for yourself--upon visiting a campus, one may absolutely love it, while another may loathe it. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, can we get more firsthand opinions?</p>
<p>I have just been accepted to University of Arizona and Michigan State University.
I am a business marketing major and i am looking for a fun yet reutationable university. </p>
<p>I have done my research, an UA and MSU ranks almost the same under "US News 2006 undergraduate business program".</p>
<p>I haven't been to either campus but i hear MSU's campus is great because it is an agricultural college. But UA is based in tuson, AZ, and i have seen pics of the campus and it looks great.</p>
<p>I know that the party scenes are also great at UA and MSU. </p>
<p>Academic wise, UA and MSU holds about the same also. Does anyone know if majority of students at UA or MSU are smart (i mean will influence ur future) or are they just a bunch of average Joes??????????</p>
<p>But i think MSU hold it over UA for reputation wise, i mean it isn't a bad school. </p>
<p>I got a scholarship to UA for three years but never got one from MSU.</p>
<p>PLEASE HELP ME MAKE A DECISION!!!!! I"M BEGGING SOMEONE, SHARE SOME WISEDOM!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>you should post on their respective boards on this website. the people there would know better</p>
<p>AWww... i dont know what to do! Stanford has so much money FOR everything! I loved Columbia and NYC escpecially since im an international... I loved the atmosphere at Stanford too though... Ok nre stategy... What would change about columbia/ stanford?</p>
<p>what do you mean what would change?</p>
<p>Basically I want the dirt on both schools. I know everyone pretty much loves thier school (except for slipper apparently) but still what are the ugly things? If you wanted to improve things how would you make things better?</p>
<p>If I wanted to improve things we wouldn't live in 116th, but more mid-town. The subway ride to greenwich is 37 minutes according to hopstop.com, so it can be kind of a pain going downtown sometimes. </p>
<p>Also, I think it would be beneficial if University Writing had themed writing classes like George Washington University and Harvard rather than a semester long writing class that involves writing about nothing. </p>
<p>Please STOP making generalizations about Columbia. I agree, be wary of picking Columbia because it can be a more independent and adult ish atmosphere, and in my personal experience, I have yet to meet a SEAS kid that loves or even likes the SEAS program, so if you're going to SEAS, you have to weigh how much New York City or Columbia makes it worth it. I do praise slipper for pointing out the cliques, which is something that I never read about before I came here. That is a negative factor, and it is something that I dislike. But students OVERALL don't hate the school, and the ones that are bitter are generally the ones that didn't make an effort to make friends. I like schools that are in big cities and disjointed. I like my world to revolve around something more than college life. Yet I also love Columbia community, and I love being able to come back to my school and gaze around my campus. Columbia community, like I said before, may not seem to as "strong" as other campuses, but it exists, and it makes most of the students feel a part of something bigger. But I do warn everyone that comes here that it is not the traditional college experience, however, I get very defensive and protective when I feel people are dissing it without really experiencing it. I'm sure you hear undergraduates complaining..I complain all the time about stuff here. Young people tend to blow off steam that way. </p>
<p>Most people I know that go to Stanford are happy at Stanford. They only say that Palo Alto sucks (which it does. I've grown up around there). If you go to Stanford, community definitely exists there, and your world will pretty much revolve around Stanford because it's HUGE and it's actually it's own city. I've stayed there for summer programs and pretty much grew up with the idea that I would go there. However, someone like ME would hate it there. </p>
<p>If you want to contact me sometime a_nicte with specific questions, I know both communities fairly well. I do agree that it takes a special kind of person to go to Columbia and really get the experience out of it.</p>
<p>I chose Columbia because of the city. If I can make a small group of friends, I should be fine.</p>
<p>From visiting the school and talking to people who attended it, I get the sense that community at Columbia is much less organized, but that it's not a matter of people being cloistered and unfriendly. It's just that there are too many museums, internships, stores etc... in NYC to keep everyone in one place at one time. Why would you go to watch third-rate college football with all of that at your fingertips?</p>
<p>Lilsmiley I agree with everything you said in that last post. I am comparing columbia to places like Brown and Dartmouth, of course it will have less community and cohesiveness than places like that. Conversely Columbia has MUCH more community than most other urban schools. If Dartmouth or Princeton are 10s in terms of "spirit and community" a place like Columbia is a 4 or 5, a place like NYU is a 1. As I have pointed out Columbia's faults, I think I need to point out some of its benefits over other places:</p>
<p>1) It does have community for an urban school. For students wanting an urban experience its more than enough and blows places like NYU out of the water
2) Cultural sensitivity: Its anti-jock if anything. Overall students are very open-minded
3) The core: for CC students I think its a huge benefit
4) Awesome "esoteric" departments. If you want Sanskrit or screenwriting it will be there
5) Girls: If you are a guy you'll be pretty happy with the ratio</p>
<p>a_nicte: to answer a couple of questions you posed a while back:</p>
<p>No, you won't find the money for undergrad projects at Columbia the way you will at Stanford. Stanford has just raised a ton of money for undergraduate education. It is easy there to write a proposal to do something and get funded as an undergrad.</p>
<p>Yes, you will find LOTS of part-time job possibilities at Columbia, and many more off campus jobs or internships in NYC than Palo Alto.</p>
<p>You might also take into account that NYC is an expensive place to have fun. I don't know the rules on employment for an international student, but presumably you've looked into that if you're thinking of getting a part-time job.</p>
<p>i thought people go to college for education; not for frat or parties. social life is all about yourself, you create yours. I also thought that it is inappropriate to critique a school just because you could not find your social niche there.</p>