<p>My son is interested in pursuing a BA in music (composition), because he wants (and we want for him) a broader liberal arts education than he would get pursuing a BM. We've noticed that several schools (such as Carnegie Mellon) have a BFA in music...it appears that it is between the BA and BM in terms of how many credits are in the major. Does anyone have any experience with these? Are there differences among these degrees beyond the focus and intensity? Thanks!</p>
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it appears that it is between the BA and BM in terms of how many credits are in the major.
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<p>Hunt, that's it in a nutshell. In general:</p>
<p>-the BA has less music specific required credits, and more liberal arts requirement, elective options.</p>
<p>-the BFA kicks the music up a notch, but in general, still less music specific requirements.</p>
<p>-the BM is very music heavy creditwise, and contains few required liberal arts or non music specific degree requirements. In general, between the three, the BM has less room (read as time) in the courseload to allow for electives, be they music or non music options. Think of it like a BS, where there is a high concentration of knowledge/theory/application type curriculum, less survey type coursework. For music, ensemble and methods courses can be likened to labs, practicums in the science and other disciplines.</p>
<p>The BFA is often conferred to dance, theater, musical theater graduates in lieu of a BA. </p>
<p>In general, the BFA & BMs will have increasing levels of theory, music history, discipline specific ipos, ensemble participation over a BA and may include a pretty fair number of 1 and 2 credit courses, often more time intensive than a 3 credit survey course. </p>
<p>Important to note that most BA programs are not audition based, don't include a sophomore evaluation, annual jury/recital requirement, or other "artistic" requirement to continue in the program. BFA & BM programs will have this, and succesful completion is a requirement for continued degree pursuit. Also, they are audition (or submission) based, and the final artistic requirement is "stiffer" for BFA, BM than BA candidates.</p>
<p>The operative documents for comparison both within and between schools are the degree plans for each type.</p>
<p>Often buried deeply within the undergrad handbook (or school specific supplement) these will detail the specific core requirements and course options for type of degree. It's important to study and understand these in deciding what the options and depth, as well as any sidebar or "*" noted requirements differences. </p>
<p>The general rule is that you will see a school offering either
BA/BM options, BA/BFA, or BFA/BM; it is rare to see BA/BFA/BM options offered as different degree paths in the same discipline, although that combo can be found in a number of programs across arts related disciplines.</p>
<p>We've shied away from programs that offer BA/BFM or BA/BM because of the concern that the BA students would not be viewed as the "real" music majors. But I confess that this preference has knocked a bunch of schools off my son's list that he liked for other reasons. In particular, this was an issue at a number of selective non-Ivy schools (i.e., Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Rice, Hopkins). [Note: I can't get him to look at small schools, or at schools in non-urban or urbanish locations.]</p>
<p>I have looked through a number of school curricula and there are generally three categories of classes involved in a music degree. The first are required to be in the field of music, the second are required to be outside of music and the third are selected from music or non-music classes at the discretion of the student and his or her advisor. Typically for a BM degree, at least two-thirds and in many cases at least three-fourths of the semester hours are in the first category, i.e. required to be in music. A stand-alone conservatory with few non-musical classes available may get into the 80% to 85% range of required music classes. Typically for a BA, at least half and sometimes as many as two-thirds are in the second category, i.e. required not to be in music.</p>
<p>CMU operates on units rather than credit hours, with three units being the equivalent of one credit hour. The curriculum for undergrad composition at <a href="http://music.cfa.cmu.edu/pdf/forms/UGcomposition2008.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://music.cfa.cmu.edu/pdf/forms/UGcomposition2008.pdf</a> shows 288 units of music classes, 72 of non-music classes and 24 of electives. I am not familiar with other BFA programs, but CMU's looks a lot like the typical BM mix.</p>
<p>While there are obvious differences in focus, differences in intensity vary with the choices made by the student. I tend to think of the BM as a pre-professional degree, akin to a degree in a field like engineering, architecture or nursing. It prepares you very well for continued progress within that field, but usually means that you have some catching up to do if you want to change directions in grad school.</p>
<p>Thanks for the help. I think if my son were bent on a performing career, I might feel differently about this. But for somebody interested in composition, or maybe music theory/ethnomusicology, we think the BA route makes sense. Clearly, he won't get the dose of musical knowledge that he would get in a conservatory or a B.M. program.</p>
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We've shied away from programs that offer BA/BFM or BA/BM because of the concern that the BA students would not be viewed as the "real" music majors.
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<p>At this level, the music students know the threshold of knowledge, talent and self discipline to have gotten this far. They also recognize the different drives and prime movers that cause one to prefer concentration on a specific instrument, discipline, or degree pursuit. Most will recognize the broad interest or alternate path concerns. BA/BM doesn't matter, the peer respect is earned by the results, not the degree. Lack of dedication or cooperation, marginal or inconsistent ability, or personality disputes may result in far more issues than degree type, as in any other discipline.</p>
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Clearly, he won't get the dose of musical knowledge that he would get in a conservatory or a B.M. program.
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<p>One way to maximize a BA to close to a BM level is to examine the elective options available within specific curriculum. Filling as many free electives with music courses of choice will deepen the focus. The percentages BassDad cites are ranges, and you will find different "wiggle room" at different programs. The same applies to non-music academics, you can adjust the program as deeply or broadly (within the requirements) to fine tune it to his needs. Again, the published degree requirements are the operative documents.</p>
<p>"At this level, the music students know the threshold of knowledge, talent and self discipline to have gotten this far. They also recognize the different drives and prime movers that cause one to prefer concentration on a specific instrument, discipline, or degree pursuit."</p>
<p>This is good to hear, but it also appears to me that there are some institutional differences at some of the schools, such as preference for admission to classes of limited class size and the like. How big a deal that might be, I don't know.
As for your second point, we've noticed big differences in the range of music courses offered at different schools. That's one of the reasons my son is so adamant about not going to a small school.</p>
<p>When I chose between a B.A./B.F.A. in theater many years ago, the BFA (offered in theater, art, music) had a few more requirements and the general requirements were more weighted to the humanities. B.A. requirements were the same for all majors and were a bit more evenly weighted between sciences/soc. sciences/humanities. For instance, B.A. required a single philosophy course, B.F.A. required two, B.F.A. required more foreign language and also courses in the other fine arts.</p>
<p>As usual, the devil is in the details. You may not want to dismiss all small schools until you have taken a look at both the catalog and the schedule of classes that are actually being offered for a couple of semesters. Some schools (both large and small) offer a tremendous amount of variety in their class offerings, but you have to be careful to make sure that the classes that are listed in the catalog actually find their way onto the schedule and do not get canceled for lack of enrollment. It is not so much the total number of classes listed in the catalog that you want to look for, rather how many of those that interest you are actually taught. This does not always correlate with the size of the school or the size of the music department.</p>
<p>I don't want to dismiss small schools at all. However, my powers of persuasion are limited.</p>
<p>A question with small schools is also not whether all the courses are offered every year, but whether over a four-year stay, they are offered often enough to allow for a wide variety. This is really something to ask current students, tour guides, admissions. It can't really be determined from looking at one semester's course listings.</p>
<p>When I taught at a small LAC, I prepared a detailed sheet for all majors listing the rotation of course offerings so they could plan ahead as freshmen what they would like to take to complete their major.</p>
<p>Hunt, that's why I stress the need to check the actual degree requirements. Sometimes size of (parent) school, doesn't matter, but size, depth and strength of the music school or department does in the amount of courses offered.</p>
<p>Another thing to watch is course options availability. In some programs with BA's & BM's it's possible some of the higher level theory, comp, seminar and ensemble opportunities are available only to BM's or discipline specific majors. Sometimes a strong student can get an override, but it's really school specific. </p>
<p>Courses can be scheduled in alternate semesters, or years; courses scheduled historically in semester 2 will inexplicably show up as a semester 1 course after you've designed your entire schedule to get into that anticipated class, in a timeslot you can't schedule around because of other requirements. </p>
<p>Son could not get into a chamber rep specific seminar throughout his tenure. Initially, he did not have prereqs, and course scheduling conflicts as an upperclassman prohibited it. The course was only offered every other year!</p>
<p>What genius scheduled a chamber seminar during the honors chamber group meeting slot was beyond my grasp.</p>
<p>As BassDad says, it's in the details. And getting your hands on a couple of years past course schedules really helps.</p>
<p>Ideas for your son:
WUStL
Furman
Miami Ohio
Brandeis</p>
<p>It really is a balancing act. Once there, the key is for the student to really know their requirements, and get as many done as soon as possible. General liberal arts requirements, initial music intro classes are best completed by the end of sophomore year.</p>
<p>Larger institutions, particularly universities often offer night/evening classes to suit adult students. Often basic general acdemic required courses are offered in these slots. It may make for a long day, but can be a great option.</p>
<p>IPO's, ensemble requirements tend to eat up large time blocks on specific days, and BM's usually deal with this all four years. Required music courses tend not to fall in this time period, but other academics will.</p>
<p>It gets far worse when you add a second major or dual degree, and five year planned programs can be stretched into a additional semester or year, or you try and play catch up with summer or winterterm classes, adding to costs.</p>
<p>Attention, planning, and luck all play a part.</p>
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In particular, this was an issue at a number of selective non-Ivy schools (i.e., Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Rice, Hopkins).
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<p>You need to make sure you look at the specific requirements not the general summaries. At Rice, for instance, you cannot enter as a BA in music. You must enter in the BM track and can only do a BA if you "drop down" to it after one year.</p>
<p>Vanderbilt, Rice, and Hopkins were all places that appeared to us to make sense only if the student really wanted to pursue a B.M.
The two schools where it appeared that there may really be both B.A. and B.M. tracks that make sense are Northwestern and Wash U. St. L. Does anybody have any thoughts about what a B.A. in music might experience at those schools?</p>
<p>I would suggest Emory as another place to look. They offer only a BA in Music, (Not a BM at all), which includes a composition focus. When we visited Emory, it was emphasized to us over and over how easy it was to double major (some teachers told us it was TOO easy), and some students even triple.</p>
<p>They certainly have the urban location (although a very nice campus feel!) that your S wants, as well as the liberal arts opportunities and big school environment.</p>
<p>Welcome</a> to Music at Emory | Undergraduate Program</p>
<p>Thanks, Binx. Emory is on our list to consider. One thing we noticed there is that all music majors must audition in order to declare, even if they are interested in composition, theory, etc. I have noticed some differences among schools in how much emphasis there is on performing skills for B.A. candidates.</p>
<p>Find out what auditioning on composition means. At some schools, composers are required to have a primary instrument, although the standard may be somewhat lower for a composition student - enough to demonstrate musical knowledge rather than mastery. At other schools, "auditioning" is by way of portfolio.</p>
<p>We have heard very (very, very) disappointing things about music at Wash U. It is just hearsay (never visited, so nothing first hand), but I think, from what we have heard, that the level of musicianship is not very high.</p>