Hi there! I’ve done a lot of reading on this site, and one thing I’ve often seen regarding how AO’s evaluate a student’s course rigor is they look at what they have taken compared to what is offered (so as not to penalize a student for not taking many AP’s for instance when their schools don’t offer many to begin with). But my question then becomes what does that metric look like and how “holistic” is it?
My D21 seems like maybe a “bubble kid” for whether she’s considered a solid applicant for some schools/scholarships or not and while GPA and ACT are pretty straight forward metrics, I’m trying to understand a little more about this course rigor piece as we start creating our list of schools to apply to here in a few months. Her school offers 20 AP’s, and she will have 9. So she took less than half of what her school offers, but what expectation is there around “what could have been taken?” For instance, 5 of those AP’s she absolutely couldn’t have taken because they were not related to tracks she was on (AP Art Studio x3, AP French, AP Spanish). And then of course there is simply a matter of not having time in a schedule (she goes to a Catholic school where they are required to take 1 credit of religion per year too). So I guess my question is will her course rigor be looked at more as 9/20 or is it more holistic as in she took 9 of maybe 13 /14 that may have been possible?
Part of the rigor assessment is based on what the school guidance counselor will indicate on their report to the colleges. Some GCs are very forthcoming with that information for students, others are not. My advice would be to have your child ask the GC where they stand in relations to their peers at school.
For highly selective colleges, they are going to want to see that the GC checked of that the student took the highest rigor available to them.
Colleges know that there is no way for students to take every single AP course offering at their schools.
FWIW, my D also went to a Catholic college prep HS where theology was required along with other things that weren’t offered on an AP level, plus restrictions on when you could start taking AP classes. The most AP/DE credits a student could legitimately fit into their schedule at the time was 10, and that was a big stretch that only about 5 out of 200 students managed.
Most HSs publish a school profile, usually available on their websites.
That document typically has a lot of data, including GPA ranges (deciles, mid-50%ile, or median), the average number of APs/honors courses taken, AP test score averages, SAT/ACT scores (averages/mid 50%ile), etc.
AOs use this document to help them figure out how a student compares to their class. Take a look at your HS’s profile to help understand where your D’s rigor stands in relation to classmates.
There is also a section on the counselor’s section of the common app (I think coalition app too) where GCs note how rigorous the applicant’s curriculum was…ask your D’s GC what they will check for her.
Colleges don’t think of it as a fraction or formula (I took X AP classes out of Y offered). Your guidance counselor is the best person to ask since he or she will be the one to “check the box” stating your student took the most rigorous courseload available in that high school.
FWIW, in our high school, you have to take the highest level class offered in four of the five core subjects to get that box checked. Other high schools go by number of AP classes you took. It just varies from school-to-school.
Colleges will also consider what they know to be rigorous courses. AP Chemistry, AP Physics C, AP Calculus BC are all leaders in AP rigor, followed by APUSH, etc.
Thank you for your helpful insight. Yes, I didn’t mean to imply that she should have taken 20 because 20 were offered, in hindsight the way way I wrote it sounds silly. I think its more just an overall curiosity around how that piece is handled. I see a lot of students on here with 11/12 AP’s when I am looking at the recent admission/scholarship results threads so I think I’m mostly wondering if that seems to be a “standard” to compare her 9 to or if she’ll be compared more to the 9 out of potentially 14 that would have been possible for her to take. Thank you for replying!
The GC tick is really the key- schools will look generally to what the student has taken- usual sequences, for example. Some flag specific things (for example, Vassar says that they specifically look to see if students have slacked off senior year and taken a less rigorous load than the year before, even if they get the GC checkmark for rigor), but mostly they are just looking to see that the student has challenged themselves to a reasonable extent relative to the context of their school.
It’s not an AP race, either- somewhere between 5 & 8 (if that range is offered) seems to be the sweet spot.
So helpful, thank you. I have never been able to find anything her school promotes other than how many AP’s are offered and class size ratio. I think I need to just start asking for what I’m looking for…thank you for replying!
Ok this is starting to make things more clear for me, she had a disheartening guidance counselor experience the first two years, whom ended up leaving, and her guidance counselor this year is both new to the school and to her role as she just graduated last year. I think this might be why our convos have never ventured down this path when we have discussed D21’s AP classes. I’ll ask more questions, thank you!
Also thanks for the last paragraph, I think it does also kindof confirm for me where she falls (more above average, not into “high stat kid” territory) as she didn’t take AP Chem, Physics, or Calc BC!
Yes, she’s definitely chosen classes by her interests and without an AP race in mind (she chose anatomy and physiology instead of AP Chem) and took honors physics because we were both weary of her being able to jump right into AP Physics Mechanics! Thank you for the 5-8 range, that is helpful too!
In a similar vein, I’m wondering how the IB Diploma stacks up regarding rigor. My D21 is taking the full programme but only has APUSH as a sophomore for AP credits. I’m thinking that should check most rigorous box but I’m unsure what the AOs think about it.
Note the question “In comparison with other college preparatory students at your school, the applicant’s course selection is:” with options for “less than demanding”, “average demanding”, “very demanding”, “most demanding”, and “prefer not to respond”.
However, for the most selective colleges, a “most demanding” answer may be necessary, but not sufficient, and admission readers may look more into the course selection themselves.
Note also that the counselor is also asked “Compared to other students in his or her class year, how do you rate this student in terms of:” with categories of “Academic achievement”, “Extracurricular accomplishments”, “Personal qualities and character”, and “OVERALL”. For the most selective colleges, you want the “top 1%” box checked.
@ucbalumnus wow, thank you so much for this attachment, the picture is definitely starting to become more clear for this first rodeo mama. Also grateful for the explanations, I don’t believe her to be a most selective school candidate for now but will know more this summer and so appreciating this forum more and more every day!
Note that some HS GCs don’t complete all sections of that common app form.
For example my kids’ HS GCs don’t complete those ratings boxes, for academics or the other stuff (no way they could rate the ECs)…but they do address the academic rigor and help put it in context in their recommendation letter.
OP, you have lots of good questions to ask your D’s GC now!!
Full IB is considered akin to a full load of AP classes, and it is likely to be the most rigorous program offered by the high school. Check with your guidance counselor for specifics. A student does not need AP classes on top of a full IB diploma, although some mix and match or, like your student, take an AP class or two earlier in high school.