<p>Thanks to all of you who post. This forum has been very helpful to us and we are now down to the application process. Please lend insight into schools that you think would be a good fit for my D.</p>
<p>D is smart, (very high test scores, grades) She is talented (attended BUTI last summer for voice-Mezzo)
Wants to pursue voice performance BUT is not willing to give up academics for it. Double degree with English seems like a fit.
She is an "intellectual" and more mature than most kids her age that she has met.
The kids that she felt the most comfortable with in her life were at Tanglewood. Even there she felt like she was more mature than a lot of them. She has visited Washington University St. Louis, liked the environment, school, teachers. Felt like academically this was her fit.
If she could, would choose a substance free dorm. She is very goal oriented, driven. We are upper middle class with other children going to college eventually. Merit aid is a must. D qualifies for Merit aid academically and most likely vocally. D was told by BUTI teacher that her voice is rare and she would probably be accepted to most vocal programs. D wants to be at a school that has some urban aspects but not right in a big city like NYC. D is liberal but not extreme. D plans on attending graduate school but is not sure in what at this point. So... we are looking for a school where the musical environment is exciting with top notch voice teachers and with strong academics. Harvard/NEC would be her first choice, if accepted we would find a way to pay for it. Obviously that is a reach for everyone.
Any ideas on other schools that might be a fit?</p>
<p>Vanderbilt came to mind for me too. If she is going to apply to an audition program, you need to get moving with the applications. Many have Dec. 1 deadlines. Have you sent the screening CD to NEC?</p>
<p>We did a lot of exploring for double degree options, looking for places with strong academics. Most of the programs accept very few students and are hard to negotiate; some appear to exist mainly to attract applicants, but as a practical matter are almost undoable (Columbia-Juilliard, Harvard-NEC), unless the student is really not all that committed to one or the other interest. Hartt and Lawrence are spoken of positively on these threads; I have no personal experience with them. Bard, which I visited, was underwhelming. Oberlin is a great choice for voice and English -- both top programs with excellent faculty, and the double degree there is well supported; they do give merit scholarships, and appear to be more generous in the Conservatory than the College. The deadline for the Conservatory is Dec. 1; for the College it is in January (last year, Jan. 15). Although it is not in a city, it is not that far from one and there is plenty to do on the campus. It is liberal but not whacky; the kids are friendly and smart.
Harvard-NEC appears to accept about 1-2 students a year from amongst the few who are admitted (separately) to both. It is also very costly -- an extra $6000 over Harvard tuition, and there are no merit scholarships; it involves traveling to NEC, while taking a full load a Harvard. Harvard itself has a lot of performance but they pride themselves on the fact that it is almost entirely extracurricular and student run -- that can be great for some, and not so great for others...It is a big reach for any student to get into Harvard and NEC and then be one of the 1 or 2 kids accepted into the dual program, so you must be sure to have backups! Same with Columbia-Juilliard; my kid got into Juilliard and Columbia and not the Columbia-Juilliard program...they explained that they are looking for kids with management...</p>
<p>To the OP...since you are at the "application process", what schools are on your daughter's short list? Perhaps folks with some familiarity with them could comment on those schools. I would agree that Oberlin is a good choice primarily because they well support students pursuing double degrees in music and something else. If OP's daughter wants to pursue a double degree, I feel the most important thing she can find out is how this works at schools she finds interesting. She needs to know how many students typically do this, if the studio teachers support this (some do and some don't), how many start out with a double major and how many actually complete a double major, and how long it will take to complete. I know that those students I know who did doubles at Oberlin took either an extra semester or an extra year. Where my son went to college (at a university), often students started out as double majors, but there were not very many who completed a double major with music being one. This was a major university. Sometimes the logistics of completing the double major are daunting.</p>
<p>Hartt has a well established vocal program, and there a number of 5 year double majors specifically combining a number of music disciplines THE</a> HARTT SCHOOL: MUSIC-DANCE-THEATRE . It is also very possible to do a double degree with a music discipline within Hartt and an academic discipline through University of Hartford. If she is highly talented academically, she might want to consider the honors program.</p>
<p>From my son's instrumental experience, Hartt can be very generous with talent aid. University policy has been that they will not combine a merit based academic scholarship with a Hartt performing arts scholarship; they have been mutually exclusive in the past.</p>
<p>Harvard/NEC isn't impossible to pull off, but you do have to be an incredible time manager, since no one is supplying bus service (as at Eastman or Peabody). I think they take as many as six kids a year (1-2 is Columbia/Juilliard), but it is still insanely competitive. The Tufts/NEC program is not <em>as</em> competitive, but is still extremely competitive (there is a separate individual who coordinates this...friends of ours have met with him). December 1 is the NEC deadline, and that is obviously fast approaching. I am sure voice has a prescreening CD required as well, which has to be postmarked no later than 12/1. NEC gives almost no money for merit.</p>
<p>Michigan also has a shuttle bus that seems to run very frequently between the music school and main campus. They have good merit scholarships, and we were told one could qualify for merit in both the academic and music arenas. I think there is a parent who posts here whose daughter got both.</p>
<p>Another excellent musician we know got 3/4 merit scholarship to Eastman.</p>
<p>The NEC website has information about Harvard-NEC and Tufts-NEC. This is what it says about the Harvard-NEC admissions.
"The program is open to high school students who apply to both institutions through their normal admissions process. Admission to the program is very competitive – applicants must demonstrate the highest level of performance ability or compositional skill, so it is possible that an applicant can be admitted to both institutions, but denied admission to the joint program. Normally, there are 5-6 students admitted each year."</p>
<p>In the first year, they took one vocalist, a composer, and 3 string players; it seems to have been about the same each year. So even if they take 5 kids, that is not many! (Oberlin had 38 this year, 40 last year.) It is also a BA/MM program, not a BMus./BA, so quite different in that respect and requiring 5 years. (Oberlin's double degree program is also usually a 5 year program, though lots of AP's could shorten it to 4 or 4.5 as they are generous in giving credit for 4's and 5's on the exams; their merit scholarships cover the fifth year as well.) It is also possible simply to go to Harvard and take lessons at NEC, arranged on your own. As noted, there is a lot of music going on at Harvard, and students there take extracurricular activities very seriously. Their music department is almost exclusively academic.
Columbia gives students who successfully audition, in any major, free lessons from affiliated adjuncts. Some Columbia kids take lessons independently from Juilliard faculty, and they can audition for funding from Columbia to pay for it. Harvard gives some subsidy on a need-based only basis, and it is capped. No merit scholarships from Columbia or Harvard.</p>
<p>I agree with mamenyu. Oberlin sounds like a good option in nearly every area you mention. Several schools offer a double degree plan but you have to consider how many people they admit to it and, of those, how many complete it. Oberlin has something like 35-40 kids start the double degree program as freshman each year and about 25 who graduate from it. (About half who start the program complete it, but several join it in sophomore year rather than upon entering the college.) The Dean of the Conservatory completed that program himself in his own undergrad years there, so there is strong institutional support for it. I understand that a few of the voice teachers there would rather their students not be working toward a separate degree, but there are several who are OK with it. You have to ask when deciding on a studio.</p>
<p>Merit money can be obtained through the Conservatory or the College. It is rare for a student to get merit aid through both, but very common to get both merit aid and need-based aid, even for families making a fairly high income. Check out Oberlin</a> College :: Office of Financial Aid :: Overview for some interesting statistics by income level. The Conservatory is said to offer merit scholarships of $8K - $12K to about a third of their admits. Obviously they use that money to get what they need the most and female vocalists are never in short supply. If she is a rare fach as her teacher says, however, she might be able to get some of that. The College does not offer merit aid to as many students, but it has several awards that are fairly large in dollar amount. From your description, it sounds like she might be considered for one of those.</p>
<p>There are substance free floors available in the dorms. The school certainly is not in a big city but there is a lot to do on campus. Check out the school calendar at Oberlin</a> Events Calendar to get an idea of the official events and add five or six student-run events per night that are publicized on campus but do not make the calendar on the web site. They have an incredible art museum that is one of the best on any college campus. Cleveland is an hour away, but that is not saying all that much. We stayed in the downtown area while visiting both CIM and Oberlin and the place was empty by 6PM on a weeknight. Many students go in to Cleveland for specific events, but I do not get the feeling that a lot of them go there for the nightlife or just to hang out.</p>
<p>Political leanings tend to go from moderately to very liberal, but the emphasis is on individualism. There is a high degree of mutual respect among the students and, although many will argue passionately for their own viewpoint, they understand the difference between persuasion and force.</p>
<p>One really great aspect is that the Conservatory and College share a campus. You can walk from your Music Theory class in the Con to your English class in King in about two minutes. The two buildings are diagonally across the street from each other. All of the other classroom buildings are within an easy ten minute walk. No need to worry about shuttles or public transportation.</p>
<p>Yale also has a double degree (BA/MM) program, though I believe it kicks in after the sophomore year, by audition. From what I have seen, there are lots of musicians at Yale, and lots of musicians taking music lessons, but almost all begin, at least, by taking lessons from graduate students; the Yale School of Music is a graduate-only program. Unlike Juilliard and NEC, it is so well funded that is tuition free for all.<br>
Princeton offers subsidized lessons for music students, with teachers who are mostly adjuncts, though there are some students who go to NY for lessons. That would be a tough one to negotiate, with a full load at Princeton -- though there is a train from Princeton to NY City. They are planning at Princeton build a new arts center. Princeton has some excellent musicians and lots of choral groups (as does Yale).
If your daughter is thinking of a career as a singer, though, the Ivy League options are a tough way to go about it; there are the YoYo Ma's and every year you hear of some brilliant student-musician who goes on to Juilliard, but the more typical academically-minded musician might find it stressful, especially during the winter months in these cold places.</p>
<p>When we investigated CMU, it appeared that it would be nearly impossible to do a double major there because the music curriculum was very full and had few elective courses that could be used toward satisfying requirements for the other major. Go to their website and try to put together a five year class schedule that would satisfy the requirements for both vocal performance and English and you will see what I mean.</p>
<p>Peabody/JHU only accepts a handful of applicants to their double degree program. It is possible to be accepted separately at both but not to the double degree program. From what I have heard, only one or two people complete it in most years, sometimes none. It is kind of the same situation as Harvard/NEC - just barely possible, but anyone considering it should know that the odds are very long and they should have a backup plan elsewhere.</p>
<p>The music degree at CMU is a BFA so it is jam packed - 8 semesters of dance, several semesters of acting, etc. so I could see how that would be tough. Another drawback to Peabody/Hopkins is the location of the campuses - they are not on the same campus so there would be a lot of shuttling.</p>
<p>There is a van that goes fairly frequently between Peabody in Mt. Vernon and the Homewood campus of Hopkins. From what I have heard from the students at Peabody, getting back and forth is not too bad.</p>
<p>What about Northwestern University? We know several students who completed double degrees from there (music/applied math; music/literature). Evanston is close enough but not right in Chicago. It might be a good choice. I don't know anything about their vocal program.</p>
<p>I think the most important thing, apart from gaining admittance into these very competitive schools, is to think about the reality of the experience for your kid: what will it be like on a day to day basis, trying to negotiate the workload and getting to lessons; what about practice rooms (this is more of a concern for pianists than some other instrumentalists who can practice in their rooms; maybe it is least of all a concern for vocalists, who are their own instruments and don't need to carry one around or find one) -- for example, at Columbia, I read a blog by a pianist in the Juilliard-Columbia program who described finding a practice room like being a homeless person looking for a dumpster...i.e., not easy. How much of an effort will it be to get to lessons; will there be studio classes and chamber music opportunities? (Again, this is more for instrumentalists and pianists than singers.) Imagine taking the subway to Juilliard to find a practice room...then going back on the subway to Columbia; similarly, Harvard to NEC on the T. And also, what is the culture of the school and the general "fit." Northwestern is a very different place than Oberlin, for example, more "preprofessional" and with more of a fraternity-sorority culture. That may be appealing to some students more than others. There are also big differences between the academic experiences at a liberal arts college and a University, like Harvard or Yale, where there are graduate students; and the experience for a musician is quite different when the music department at the school is academic, vs. performance oriented. Indeed, many top academic music departments are fairly snobby about performance and contemptuous of performers (and vice versa). Visiting a school is an important part of the process.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>instrumentalists who can practice in their rooms>></p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>From our experience, the only places where this was true was at conservatories. It was NOT allowed at any of the university/college programs we visited. Not wishing to highjack the thread, but if the location of practice space is a concern, students applying to universities should know that probably they will NOT be able to practice in their rooms.</p>
<p>There is a lot of information on the websites of the schools about practice rooms; many schools have limited numbers of such rooms and some are locked, with limited access to keys (Columbia, for example). I read of one pianist at Yale who tried to practice on a piano in a different residential college than his own and he was told by residents of that college that he could not use their piano...
Another school with double degree possibilities, much like Northwestern but in the true "west" is USC, which has a performance school, the Thornton school, but it is part of USC. It is possible to do a double degree there, too. And McGill, in Canada, has a performance school, Schulich, and it is also possible to do a simultaneous BA. Unfortunately, neither USC nor Schulich has regional auditions; USC will review applicants based on CD's, though. For McGill, you either have to go there for the audition after the screening by CD, or you can send a DVD, but a CD will not be sufficient.</p>