help with acceptance, no interviews with 31 mcat

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
21

<p>curm, you are right. It may also be that the numbers for Admits and Matriculants are different.</p>

<p>The AAMC chart for Applicants 2009 shows - 27.9
The AAMC chart for Matriculants 2009 shows - 30.8</p>

<p>The data that I mentioned before referred to Admits 2009 - 29 ([Medical</a> Admission Data Snapshot](<a href=“WELCOME TO HEALTH CAREERS ADVISING | Health Careers Advising”>WELCOME TO HEALTH CAREERS ADVISING | Health Careers Advising)) I saw the same number reported by a couple of other schools. Maybe I can find those links also…</p>

22

<p>^I wouldn’t use the data from a school’s site. Use the AAMC’s data as it is likely to be more accurate (as it’s aggregate data from all of the schools). For MD schools, the numbers have consistently been about 30-32 for matriculants and 27-28 for applicants. UG GPAs are about 3.4 for applicants and 3.65 for matriculants. In each case, the difference is somewhere around a half standard deviation.</p>

<p>As for median vs. mean numbers… if the median is lower than the mean, our data are somewhat skewed. Considering the data set and the numbers we have available, it sounds like there are probably a large number of data points in the range just below the median (i.e., 1-2 pts below) and then a much larger range of acceptable scores above the median. This makes sense both logically using the context of the data set and mathematically (i.e., using the definitions of median and mean; the mode would also lie just below the median in this case).</p>

23

<p>27.9-30.8 blahblahblah, etc. Whatever it is, it is, the average is only a range and guideline of what has happened to others, what is real for you is that with a 31 you got no interviews. I have usually seen 30/3.5 as the general minimum for admissions. </p>

<p>My DD had a 29 and a flagship tippy top public 3.6/3.7 (approx.) and applied to 30+ AAMCAS schools plus TX. She got 10 interview offers. Why?</p>

<p>She applied as soon as possible in June
Her GPA was 3.9ish in her senior year in all upper div biology.
She was involved in campus activities/sprts
She volunteered in a hospital
She shadowed doctors
She completed a couple of school run internships that were health related
She got to know her profs & feels she had stellar recommendations
She took a year off after grad and did full time research at the university level (she mad not made time for research in undergrad so needed to explore that)
She applied early & broadly
She did all secondaries very quickly</p>

<p>What did we learn? It is more numbers driven than holistic. I do not know where you are located, but DD is west coast and wanted to stay west of the Mississippi if possible. She applied to many of the middle of the county schools that take small percentages of OOS students and chose to do so based on an interest in rural primary care. We should not have bothered, whilst she did get several screened secondaries, she got no interviews there.</p>

<p>Most of the states in the western US do not offer any OOS positions, they are all shrinking from those huge numbers of CA applicants with high stats. DD got 2 TX and 3 other western interviews. The rest came from places like VA/PA/DC. If you read SDN you will find a listing of schools where lower stats are more likely- GW/Drexel/Georgetown/etc. We picked half of those schools, but had she not gotten in, I would pick them all.</p>

<p>If you go to the SDN website you should be able to find a spreadsheet that sorts by scores, pick your list from the bottom up to make sure you have enough breadth in schools where your stats fit. </p>

<p>But then look at the rest of your app. Why would some one pick you out of the pile. 10,000 applications at GW, why should they talk to you? You need to get that 3 adjective description of yourself in your mind (rural-city-sporty-artsy-etc) and present a cohesive overall package that makes some one want to meet you. </p>

<p>Think of it as the toughest cocktail party ever- what do you have to say that some one else wants to hear? Perhaps your application was “cookie cutter”? We saw a lot of cookie cutter advice at the large state school. Like going through a list checking all the boxes but not showing any passion for life. Who are you? Why are you interesting? Assume all the applicants are qualified, why are you worth their time? Answer that for yourself and then show them through your personal stmt, secondaries, and short answers, make sure it all works together and will be interesting.</p>

24

<p>

</p>

<p>This data likely includes schools other than allopathic medical schools in the US.</p>

<p>Edit : Not talking about any particular school. Certainly not talking about Brown on this forum. I’m telling ya, schools will play with numbers. I’ve seen some use PA school and non-US schools to get their numbers.</p>

25

<p>I tried to find the SDN spreadsheet link, but apparently it had to be removed, so go by the MSAR</p>

26

<p>^The spreadsheet was removed due to the use of AMCAS/MSAR data in it. (The AAMC asked us to take it down.) Honestly, though, it can probably still be found in some places, I would guess (considering how many people have copies of it and how many places it was posted).</p>

27

<p>You guess? Where’s your smileyface, apumic? :wink: </p>

<p>And to everybody…when you do use the MSAR, remember that those are the usually much higher “accepted students” numbers. All but the tip-top schools have “matriculated students” numbers a couple or 3 points below accepted numbers. Still useful but in this instance USNews is superior IMO as they provide matriculated.</p>

<p>IMO the best is to search the AAMC link by race and ethnicity and then gender. Much more helpful in making a list if you are using MCAT data.</p>

<p>But that mystery compilation apumic mentioned, that rocks. If it still existed in some form. Somewhere.</p>

28

<p>somemom,
Gongrats to your D.<br>
However, most pre-meds will have the same list of activities / steps as your D…because they are aware of it. I believe that it is important to apply to the “right” Med. school, the one that will most likely match your accomplishments (GPA, MCAT, EC’s). Apparently your D has done good job on this area. For mine, the most important would be to apply as quickly as she gets her MCAT score, but she is very well aware of it. But this is in case of decent score, otherwise, she will stay in her program (we hope that she will have enough for that).
Congrats to all!</p>

29

<p>Your numbers are seemingly not going to hurt you so if you have done all of the prerequisite medical “stuff”, applied broadly and did still did not get one interview logic says there is something inherently wrong with your application package. Have you gone over every possible problem with your pre-med advisor - recommendations that are generic or “I want to save the little children” type essays? Outside of all of the typical pre-med accomplishment they want to get a sense of who you are…at least that was the case at the schools that invited my daughter to interview. </p>

<p>One other thing - My daughter applied to a medical school that, taking her credentials into account, should have given her an immediate interview. She was even in-state for that school. It turns out that nationwide many other applicants view this school the same way. It is a well regarded school in a good location that they would be happy to go to if their more highly ranked choices don’t come through. Someone fairly knowledgeable with the med school application process mentioned to me that there can be some Tufts Syndrome action in a situation like this unless the applicant tweaks their application to appeal specifically to that school.</p>

30

<p>

Oh, God yes. You are so right. If you can’t write an effective, specific, convincing Why Blank? Essay for a school like that you should save your app money. Or flush it. It really amounts to the same thing.</p>

31

<p>

Such a way with words. :)</p>

32

<p>Hey. I like to think of myself as “colorful yet precise”. ;)</p>

33

<p>Miami- yes, every one should have that list, but what we learned on CC & SDN was that her UC advising was not really attuned to her, it was extremely cookie cutter and kids at schools like that may scurry around checking boxes and think they are now qualified instead of using the PS/short descriptors etc to present an overall interesting picture.</p>

<p>I think that is a big factor, assume nearly every one else is qualified too, so why does any one want to talk to you?</p>

34

<p>

</p>

<p>Your posts that have mentioned the above make me very aware of how lucky my daughter was to have a pre-med advisor that was helpful. If you find boards such as this one you can work around ho-hum advising but you have to come upon them. SDN is useful if you have patience but my D was not willing to sort through the 1000 angst ridden or alpha male/female posts to get to the gem. It stressed her out.</p>

35

<p>somemom,
It looks to me that the most important after having everything else is timing (as early as possible) and list of Med. Schools which is good match. D. was told by her pre-med advisor to contact him for that after she has her score. They already estimated which schools could be out under certain scores and I am thankful to him for being honest and not raise expectations too high. From what I see, your D. has positioned herself very well and this was the reason for her many interviews. Maybe others have unrealistic expectations which might explain no interviews for MCAT=31, which is respectable score.</p>

36

<p>Yes, we ran into some very unhelpful premed advising at large UCs- it was essentially here is the list of things you must do, do them in this order (this was junior year) And she had a different bio advisor each term and they would often comment, “why did he (last term’s advisor) have you take that class” “you should have taken 'other class”" They had her convinced she could not study abroad and graduate on time (fall junior year) yet she could have graduated Dec senior year. </p>

<p>Since D1 had also been through bio advising at a different UC I was already unimpressed and ready to jump ship on their system.</p>

<p>She did not stay abroad for the entire year due to the fears they caused, though it would have been tough to take a 2nd term abroad and finish well as she had done most of her GEs and the major would only accept 2 courses from time abroad.</p>

<p>There was a big falderal about a couple of different bio classes she should or should not have taken in some particular order. Spring & Summer or junior year I made it my hobby (newly empty nest!) to read SDN and glean what we needed to know. It was a huge relief to get a better idea of the requirements directly and not stress the conflicting info from the big UC advising- every person said something different</p>

<p>I recall there was a letter to future applicants from Stanford from a guy who was now a doctor or resident and he was describing the flaws in being a gunner. It was a real breath of fresh air and empowered DD to find her own path to med school.</p>

<p>I am not sure how much easier it would have been to have a personal relationship with a good advisor, but I am certainly glad we had CC/SDN to provide a full spectrum of info & experiences…every time SDN was overwhelmingly neurotic, CC was a the solution.</p>

<p>My DD would have had no patience for SDN, but I did as a deliberate new empty nest hobby. I am just as glad to be done, but I do feel I learned a great deal and that what we learned was critical to the success of DDs app process.</p>

<p>I agree Miami, once you’ve covered the basics, the “early & broadly” is paramount, with broadly not just meaning any 30 schools, but the right group for ones state of residence and score profiles.</p>

37

<p>You can find a copy of the selector at.
<a href=“http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/5/18/2863411/MedSchoolSelector2010.xls[/url]”>http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/5/18/2863411/MedSchoolSelector2010.xls&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>My understanding is that statistics’ copyrights expire after 2 yrs, so a version with old stats has been uploaded.</p>

38

<p>That’s great of you to do that apumic, the stats may change, but the general order is going to be fairly consistent, at least enough to begin a ballpark list.</p>

39

<p>^The stats change slightly but not much over the course of a year or two. What is really missing are the 5 or so schools that have opened over the past few years. It should still be a helpful tool, though. In all likelihood, the unknown factors in each school’s admissions FAR outweigh the error created by using old data. The application only has so much to work with and, admittedly, a lot of the calculations are based upon guesswork (although that guesswork uses data from AAMC surveys, the MSAR, research on graduate and professional school admissions, etc.)</p>

40

<p>I agree, CC has been helpful even with selection of UG. My D is also blessed with superior and consistant pre-med advising at her state school. They reviewed everything, including her essay, were very supportive and at the same time reaslistic. Most pre-meds at her UG are the same major (with few exceptions) and basically have the same sequence of classes. However, most of them also have minors and pursuing their area of interest. And, yes, we do not know single pre-med who went to study abroad despite the fact that D’s UG has campus in Europe. They cannot do it because of time constraints. However, D. went to New Zealand with organized and very well supervised group from her school. It was her dream to visit NZ and be at location of filming “Lord of the Rings”. It was an option to get 2 - 6 credit hours for that (with lots of work, of course). She got her 6 credit hours (used her one free summer tuition for being in Honors). Although it was not technically “study abroad”, it counts as one, she checked it out. She actually learned whole tons there and some of it even was within focus of her major.</p>