<p>As an update, S2 has decided he likes the Star Wars books. He is on his second one now and reading without being reminded whenever he has some down time, particularly early in the morning before his friends are out of bed since he is an early riser. He also has picked out other books in the series that he wants to read next. I am so, so happy about this development. </p>
<p>We finally had our appointment with an educational psychologist on Friday (took that long to get in). This guy was recommended by the school as where to go for a reading evaluation, so I should have known it wouldn't be all that helpful. I have no confidence in our school, so in retrospect a stupid place to go for advice. Anyway, the good doctor went through a standard in-take checklist of questions, 99% of which did not apply. It sounds like this guy typically works with hard core teen problems (drug abuse, criminals, uncontrolled anger issues, etc.). At the end of all this, he finally concluded that our problem really was simply what I had stated at the beginning--a desire to test S2's reading level and understand why there would be such a disconnect between reading and math. As a start, he suggested an IQ test and a reading/writing/math test. I asked why he needed to be tested in math and he said, "to see if there is a disconnect between his reading and math scores." I pointed out that he gets easy A's in math and has already had two SAT tests that show such a disconnect exists. I would think we could take that as an established fact and move directly to step two, but whatever. </p>
<p>Luckily, S2 found the whole meeting amusing. We scheduled him to take the recommended tests in late August. The secretary initially said she couldn't fit him in until September, which between school and football just wasn't going to happen. I have no confidence anything will come of this line of pursuit but the IQ results could be informative I guess and if I get a reading level result I can see just how serious a problem we are addressing. The doctor actually said he doesn't like to put a "label" on the reading level but could if I insisted. Well, that is the essence of the request after all!</p>
<p>In the meantime, S2 has agreed to memorize 25 vocab words a week and we review them on Sundays. His vocab is so weak that when the doctor asked him if he is ever defiant, he admitted to not knowing what the word defiant means.</p>
<p>Anyway, a problem does exist but I think I will just need to address it on my own. Thanks again for everybody's feedback.</p>
<p>My son also has a disparity between the math and critical reading. He was diagnosed in the fourth grade with a reading disability. He scored a 660 (June) in the math and can't even break 500 in the reading even after extensive private tutoring. He also does not like to read. His idea of reading is Sports Illustrated magazine. It has nothing to do with their intelligence. His testing showed a high IQ. It can be very frustrating for them and you. My son was so disappointed in the CR score. He really thought it would be higher. He felt fairly confident about it. He had taken the test in March, and it only went up 10 points for June after tutoring.</p>
<p>He has taken the SAT twice. We know he has to take it a third time in October, but I really don't think the CR is going to go up.</p>
<p>I am resigned (almost) to the CR score being what it is, although he will retake in October, but I really worry about him being able to handle the reading in college if we can't figure out how to bring his skill level up. Poor reading will affect his performance in virtually every class, except possibly math. I guess if the IQ comes back above average, it will help his self-confidence and if it comes back low he can take comfort that he is performing above average in math. </p>
<p>I don't think IQ has much correlation with job/life success as much as social skills and he has that in spades.</p>
<p>Is there a children's hospital anywhere near you? I live outside Philly, and would contact the Children's Hospital or AI DuPont in Wilmington.</p>
<p>If your son truly does have a disability, you might want to pursue something medical with better qualified professionals. Perhaps a trip to a teach hospital or children's hospital might be worth it?</p>
<p>^^The Analyst:</p>
<p>Just saw this thread (I don't visit this forum that often).</p>
<p>Your S needs a thorough and complete reading assessment. Not IQ test. Not reading/math/writing assessment. A reading assessment. These are very specific tests designed to determine the characteristics of his reading skills set and in which areas lie his strengths and weaknesses. You have to get such assessments from a reading specialist, not an educational psychologist.</p>
<p>Forget Sylvan.</p>
<p>Start with your school district. Ask to meet with a reading specialist (may be called a "reading coach" at the HS level). If you're met with blank stares or hemming and hawing, move on to the educational dept. of the closest college. Find someone there. Have the assessment done, then find a competent tutor who can work with your S this summer (grad students are good candidates). It's also not a bad idea to screen separately for vision and hearing problems, just to be on the safe side.</p>
<p>There's only one way to become a better reader, and that's to read. From scanning the posts, I didn't pick up whether you and his school encourage him to read informational texts (nonfiction) for pleasure. Unfortunately, schools tend to emphasize fictional texts in English classes. It doesn't have to be that way, though. In general, a lot of boys tend to prefer informational texts and do better with those. (Multimedia texts are fine, too.)</p>
<p>The more he practices reading, with materials that engage him, the more he will expand his vocabulary and store of background knowledge--which will improve his reading skill, specifically fluency (speed and comprehension). A good tutor can help him with directed reading assignments aimed at skill building. It is very, very important that he read materials that are "leveled" to his ability. Again, a skilled tutor can help with that. He should also get ongoing assessments that track his progress and provide feedback for both you and him.</p>
<p>Last I checked, grad student tutors charge around $25 per hour. Good luck! (I'm a reading specialist.)</p>
<p>Edited to add: Try to find a tutor who will support the reading with writing assignments as the two go hand in hand toward improving literacy. :)</p>
<p>Mudder, I will look for a reading specialist. I thought that is what the educational psychologist would provide but he seemed to be focused on ADD symptoms, which are not a problem, and a bunch of other stuff that is not the problem. I will not go back to our high school for advice as they are beyond incompetent. I have a neighbor who works at the local community college as a reading specialist and will ask her for further direction. I don't know why I didn't think of her before. </p>
<p>I had called the local community college and asked them for help and they said they couldn't do anything unless he was enrolled and they didn't recommend he enroll until he graduated from high school, which is a year away and not helpful since he really wants to go away to college. But the neighbor may be willing to tutor him herself or know of a good tutor if she doesn't do that.</p>
<p>I have tried introducing him to nonfiction (which his brother likes) and every conceivable book under the sun. Since he seems happy with his star wars books, I'm OK with that until we find a tutor who can work with him on his specific challenges.</p>
<p>I also missed this thread the first time around.</p>
<p>It really sounds like your son may have a learning disability, and I would try to get that determined (an educational psychologist is the person to see for that). It's great that he likes Star Wars books, and if he can follow those adult novels (especially ones by Tim Zahn) then his reading comprehension must be OK. </p>
<p>My concern would be the reading that he has to do in college. If he can't follow Ender's Game, then how is he going to master college-level reading?</p>
<p>Another suggestion is to try books on tape. That could also bolster his vocabulary. If he likes and can follow those, that helps narrow down his issues. If you can establish a learning disability, then he can use books on tape at college.</p>
<p>If he enjoyed Ender's Game, you might get him the audio version of the book (available at audible.com, etc.) and have him listen to it. And then go back and read the book again. I think that might be helpful. I think going back and trying to master a single text, and figure out, for himself, what he had trouble understanding and why, could be very instructive.</p>
<p>Check out the "What's the Word" program. We have a person in our area who conducts classes, and I got good results with S3. Wish I had known about it sooner for S1 and S2. It's also available as an online offering. </p>
<p>Welcome</a> to What's the Word? </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Analyst, </p>
<p>It's pretty much a fact that College Board tests are intended to measure academic potential and success in the classroom. Assuming you and I are functioning as adults at this point in our lives, we well know that where formal schooling ends a very different life begins for most people, especially those not in academia. Real life and mitigating obstacles is really about people skills, a by-product of the thing most of those on CC consider an education, that is if it gets recognized as a skill set at all ;) </p>
<p>When you have those discussions with your son about improving his test scores, be sure to cushion your talks with how his non-measured attributes will very likely have a greater impact on his success in life than any numbers ascribed to his potential at this time. That being said, I suggest you may want to consider approaching CR for test taking purposes as a task, and something quite different than reading for pleasure. Don't mix up the two. Reading for pleasure is a wonderful thing, just not task oriented. </p>
<p>CR reading for testing purposes, or work-related reading for that matter, is a reading style that requires you to know how to break down structure. Drills focused on reading short paragraphs and answering questions associated with reading those passages are really the only way prepare one for the test taking environment where the need for rapid fire thought processing can in and of itself be quite intimidating. I speak from experience. Find a reading coach to help him overcome the test format and model an attitude... it's just a test.</p>
<p>I agree with Mudder's, mostly, but I would go a little further. Your son needs an assessment from an educational psychologist. This will involve a lot of standardized tests and will, probably, cost thousands of dollars, but it will tell you what is going on and will point you toward what to do to fix it.</p>
<p>If it were my child, I wouldn't wait until August or September, and I wouldn't expect the school district to help (since they've been useless). I would ask around for an educational psychologist and make an appointment right away. You need to find out, right now, exactly where your son's deficits are and how to work on them. As you so rightly point out, this is not about taking tests but about functioning in college and in the real world.</p>
<p>Cardinal, we did get him to see an educational psychologist completely paid for by us as will be all the testing. The lag in appointments is because this guy seems to be that booked up--we are taking the first available appointments. We only used the school to get a recommendation of who to use. We will go through whatever battery of tests he comes up with and try to get to the bottom of this. Separately, I think I will seek out a reading specialist to tutor him. Our number one goal isn't to increase the CR score, which may not even be possible in the time frame we have to work with, but to make sure he leaves for college ready to comfortably handle reading college level material. I think we have time for that and really appreciate the various suggestions. I will give folks an update in September.</p>
<p>My D. CR score on ACT was vastly below her other ACT scores. It was 7 points below her highest score, which was English. She was aware of her problem before she took ACT thru taking practice tests. She took a different approach to this. She decided that it is totally futile to improve her CR score, so she spent her time on her strong subject (math) trying to improve it as much as possible to compensate for low CR. It paid off! By the way, she feels that her reading has improved at college after Freshman year anyway. Wish you the best in whatever approach you choose, do not feel frustrated, there are others with similar problem.</p>
<p>Thanks MiamiDAP. I am feeling much better now that he is reading the Star Wars books. As long as he isn't totally turned off by reading, I think the rest will be OK. I just didn't want him to leave home still hating all books and I was starting to panic. We'll see what the August tests show.</p>
<p>Glad your feeling better about it. I am, too. S took an SAT practice test on Saturday and, once again, CR was lower than other scores by several points. I told him people on here recommend reading more -- and not Calvin and Hobbes. :) He already reads the sports section daily and does the crossword and subscribes to Popular Science, but he never reads a book unless it's for school (or the aforementioned C&H). So I suggested a really easy book that he jumped at -- the latest Percy Jackson book. :) 'He is absolutely engrossed in it, and I had to turn off his light last night and make him go to bed because he wanted to finish it. So, while he is sooo enthusiastic, I suggested Ender's Game, and he jumped at that, too. Many of his friends had read it and loved it, so he's happy to give that a try. We'll have a couple of long road trips in the next week, so perfect time to get into a new book.</p>
<p>On one thread someone suggested the current issue of The New Yorker, I think, with a story about the Yankees. He'll love that. I agree that I don't expect him to read the Great Works during the summer, but I'd like to remind him how much he used to love reading and not see it as a chore now.</p>
<p>Your son reminds me of my friend's daughter, except that your son is at least being honest with you. This girl acted out in all sorts of ways in order to hide her dyslexia, and as a result it wasn't discovered until her jr. year in hs. Her neuropsychological evaluation showed her in the 90-something percentile in verbal abilities, but 6th percentile in reading comprehension! After she was diagnosed she finally admitted that she had never read a book completely through, and she was getting B's in advanced English (barely, but still...). She had all kinds of coping strategies, including watching the movie of the book, asking her friends what it was about, etc. She has a form of dyslexia where she can read the individual words but has difficulty putting them together to form meaning. My friend found a reading specialist to work with her, and they started from the beginning - where is the topic sentence in this paragraph, that sort of thing. She got some accommodations from the school (and on the SAT, I think). She attended a college with a lot of support for students with LD's (Cal Poly SLO) and now is working in a company that makes full use of her verbal skills without requiring tons of reading.</p>
<p>My son started complaining his freshman year of hs about being "slower" than his peers and mindful of my friend's experience, I had him tested. It was such a relief to him to learn that he has a visual processing deficit. Kids think that if they can't do something that everyone else can it's because they are a "bad" or "defective" person. My son learned that he doesn't have a character flaw but instead a neurological weakness that he can compensate for. It made a big difference in his attitude, as it did, I think, for my friend's daughter. </p>
<p>Good luck with the testing!</p>
<p>Analyst- I too vote for testing and Dx. My D is very bright, but in elementary school she felt dumb, she got As, so it was not the output, she was hopelesly slow at reading and it was a big deal for years. Each year I asked for a school psych evaluation, but that is tough to get with a very successful student- the school could not see her frustration. Each year the psych would placate me with a half hour meeting and no Dx of any problem.</p>
<p>Finally, after several years, a new school psych came on and she knew about gifted kids with LD, she did the full 3-4 hour testing battery. She called me and said she did not see anything wrong on the testing, but she would "run the numbers" This resulted in a 30 pt discrepency between IQ & processing. A pretty large discrepency, but invisable w/o complete testing, as DD was compensating well.</p>
<p>There was almost no need for school adjustments, just extra time on timed tests- no complicated learning plans, no hassle filled 504s, just an IEP for extra time on timed tests. It was an EMOTIONAL LIFESAVER for DD. She now understood why she is the only one not to finish in class reading, etc. She is a very successful student today, in a large part to gaining understanding of herself and tailoring her style of studying to her needs.</p>
<p>Pursue it and do it quickly, find some one who believes in your son and wants to help, maybe talk to other parents?? BUt, a diagnosis, a real one, can be amazingly helpful to a bright yet frustrated "poor" reader.</p>