I am trying to seek as much advise as possible with this crucial decision in my life.
Admitted to Duke, Rice, and Vandy. Want to pursue MD (may be MD-PhD) in future.
**What all should I consider when choosing between these three great schools/b - keeping my future aspiration in mind.
I am looking for items not related to cost of attendance.
Thank you in advance.
^ this, and if you have time and/or resources, go visit each of the colleges and talk to current students (ideally people you know and upperclassmen [who will have more perspective], but mainly just not from the admissions dept). All three have great resources, and if you’re motivated, you will do fine at any of them, but campus culture is what makes the “college experience.” Also be aware that you may change your mind about what you want to do, so don’t focus so much on “being pre-med.” (As a current Vanderbilt student, nearly half of our freshman class was pre-med. As a senior, I can tell you that most of them are no longer pursuing that path.) You have the next forty-fifty years to be a doctor, and from your college options you’re clearly a good student. There are a lot of different paths to get into a good med school, and while many of them involve research and working at the college hospital, many don’t, so I wouldn’t worry so much about how each school is going to help you become a better applicant for MD-PhD, but how each will help you become a better person. Congratulations, and I hope wherever you choose is the perfect fit!
Thank you @badyork and @scover17. Any inputs on the differences in curriculum, majors, teaching faculty, research opportunities, etc will be greatly appreciated.
The big thing to note about Duke is that a large percent of premeds take a gap year before applying to med school. Most do research.
@MedSciBud I can only give the Vanderbilt perspective, but I hope I can help. Nearly everyone who wants to do research finds a place to do it. There are a lot of labs and a lot of grants if you would like to continue working in your lab over the summer in Nashville. I feel like most schools now have a website to link students to faculty looking for research assistants, so that’s not necessarily unique to Vandy, but it is there.
There is a recommended “track” for pre-med students on the health professional advising page (I can’t find it right now, but you could look). It’s pretty standard, but the most important thing I can tell you is to know the track backwards and forwards, and make sure you prioritize those classes when registering. Classes-wise, a lot of premed classes are large (they are the only classes in the auditoriums besides intro econ) and have lots of homework, and labs may be from 7-10 PM (though most aren’t). Gen Chem, Orgo, and Calc are weedouts, as they are everywhere.
The only thing unique about majors at Vandy is the Medicine, Health, and Society (MHS) program, which is interdisciplinary (and is great if you don’t want to do all chem all the time). Most people like it; the only caveat is that there are a lot of people in the major, and unlike chem, most of the classes max out at 30 or so people, so classes fill up quickly. This could mean that you are still worrying about finishing requirements through the end of senior year, and it could keep you from going abroad (if that’s something you would be interested in). This doesn’t happen often, but it can be good to keep in mind.
Again, I don’t want to belabor the point, but other than the MHS program, all three schools are likely very similar (if not practically identical) when it comes to the premed program itself, so I wouldn’t focus on that when making a decision. Weedouts are hard, research opportunities abound, and a degree from any of the three will make you a strong candidate for med school. Choose the school that makes you happy.
To me the most striking differences are location: Duke is in Durham, NC, with about half a million in the metro statistical area. Vanderbilt is in Nashville, TN, with 1.8 million people. Rice is in Houston, TX, with 6.5 million people. While you can spend your four years of college on campus entirely oblivious to these surroundings, chances are you will venture off campus to get to know the city where you are living those four years. This could be for fun weekend outings, for festivals and annual events, or for internships. These are vastly different places. Consider what appeals to you the most.
I used to live near Rice, and went to Duke, so I have a few other points which are important:
Rice: Located within a few blocks of the Texas Medical Center, which means that you can get research opportunities Baylor or UT labs. This is a nice perk. A few years back Baylor and Rice were considering merging. But it ended up not working out due to the financials. Houston can be pretty darn hot in the summer time. Even when school starts (Sept) the weather is still blistering. But the winters are very mild and pleasant. The TMC is not part of ‘downtown’ Houston and is surrounded by an area known as West U, which is basically a suburban enclave of expensive homes. Getting internships in TMC labs is not that tough, but you will have to face the fact that you’ll be crossing across institutional lines. Sports life and school spirit is minimal. Parking at TMC is a pain in the neck, so you’ll probably have to take the bus or just walk from the Rice campus. Social activities off campus are fairly minimal. There are a handful of restaurants within walking distance of campus. But any off-campus activities would require a car.
Duke: campus includes the medical school, VA, and tons of research opportunities. Many Duke undergrads work in labs affiliated with medical school professors. The town of Durham is a lot smaller than Houston, but the weather in my opinion is a lot better. Campus more spread out than Rice/TMC. Fairly easy to get medical research opportunities (no need to cross institutional lines). Sports and spirit are a big part of life at Duke, with big time college athletics. The Duke medical curriculum is a lot different than most medical schools (only 1 year of basic science). Year 2 is clinical rotations. This means you pack a lot into the first year, but this also means you get an extra year (most do research). So if you want to do MD-PhD the Duke medicine program may allow you to shorten the total time considerably. Parking is not much better at Duke, but they recently built a huge parking deck on Science drive, so it makes it easier. But with the bus system getting around Duke is very easy. You really don’t even need a car at Duke TBH.
General insights about MD-PhD: your main goal during college years will be to build up enough experience to convince others that you are serious about research. This means working with a PI that has a history of solid funding and getting grant money. Almost certainly your research background will be closely scrutinized when applying for MD-PhD spots. As a rough estimate go to the NIH website and see for yourself how much annual funding is given to Duke vs Vandy vs Rice. Its not even close. So going to a school where you can walk into a funded lab makes it much easier to do impressive research from Day 1. Otherwise you have to find a lab that has enough money and is willing to take you on. Not impossible, just makes it harder. It will be a given that you will need to do very well on the MCAT and have high GPA.
Thank you @sgopal2 @scover17 @mommyrocks
Is getting into a top med school easier (assuming I get same MCAT / GPA in any of these three schools) from one of these three vs the others? Technically, do each med schools prefer admitting students from their own UG programs?
Duke and Vandy reserve a certain percentage of slots for their own students. However this doesn’t mean that graduating from a certain undergraduate school guarantees admittance at the same university’s medical school. If you have great GPA and MCAT scores, it actually matters very little where you did your undergrad. All things being equal go to a place where you think you can get a near perfect GPA.
Call the health professions office at each of the schools you are considering and ask for stats. In particular GPA distribution of students, and % who were accepted to med school.
I am curious to see if anyone responds because Duke and Rice are on my dd’s decision list as well.
Some things we are thinking through with her…
Is distance from home a factor for you?
What are the basic course requirements? Look them both up and compare. I know at Rice double majoring is common because they are so flexible. I haven’t researched that for Duke yet.
Have you been on the campus of all three? Sometimes one place just has a “right” feeling over another.
Pre-med at Duke is a bit brutal. I have heard that it can be quite…competitive. Rice is a very collaborative environment.
Good luck.
@badyork - guess @sgopal2 was alluding to the same point about more people accepted to same college’s med school.
I agree GPA is not the same between colleges listed by you, but would same courses and same GPA between Duke and Rice make a difference in med school admission?
Going solely off the numbers, the difference between Rice and Duke is fairly negligible in terms of med school placement rates (with Rice holding the slight advantage)- 87% Rice and 85% Duke. Also, getting a slightly higher GPA at Rice seems to be slightly easier (3.56 avg 2015) than at Duke (3.51 avg 2015), and that is even with Rice seeming to be a more STEM inclined school.
Honestly, I think the most important thing you can do is to visit each of these schools on their admitted student days and get a feel for what being on campus is actually like. A happy student is a successful student after all.
badyork again spouting a bunch of nonsense. Here are some facts from AMCAS that shows that GPA matters a lot, no matter which college you choose:
https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf
You’ll see that the sweet spot is having a GPA > 3.8. A 3.8 from Duke and Rice would be viewed equally. Contrary to the dumb advice from badyork, having a 3.4 from Duke won’t trump a 4.0 from East Carolina. A 4.0 from both Duke and Carolina would be viewed the same. There is very little advantage to going to a ‘harder’ school. The admissions committees know that some colleges are ‘harder’ than others, and even certain majors within each college (ie engineering). While they make some slight adjustments, they generally don’t give out concessions.
Sorry for reviving this thread, but I felt as though I didn’t contribute all that I could and I needed a little bit of time to type this up.
Disclaimer: I am not currently a Rice student, but I do live in the area and have a bunch of friends how went or are at Rice. Here is what I have gleaned from talking with them and doing my own research.
Location: Rice is located in an awesome part of Houston—the Museum District. This is a beautiful area with tons of greenery and places to explore, including several museums, parks, theatres, and the Houston Zoo. Also, I do believe that Rice students are given free access to the zoo and nearby museums with the Passport to Houston Program. Apart from that, Rice is also right next to Rice Village—a fun, medium-to-up-scale shopping district with tons of shops, places to eat, and some nightlife. (Torchy’s Tacos, Ruggles, The Chocolate Bar, Star Pizza, and Oh My Gogi! are all great, popular eateries.) If Rice Village isn’t enough, there is always the Galleria (a massive shopping center) a few miles away with a shuttle running to it.
Houston itself is an incredibly diverse city and boasts the second most Fortune 500 companies. Considering Houston is also the Energy Capital of the World, internship opportunities of practically all types are fairly easy to find. Switching gears, if following sports is your thing, or you are simply looking to catch a game every now and then, Houston has got you covered with some pretty good teams (Rockets, Texans, and Astros).
Research: This is where I think Rice truly excels, especially, but not only, for pre-meds (cough 87% med school placement rate cough). The significance of the Texas Medical Center cannot be overstated. When it is the largest in the world and houses fantastic institutions like MD Anderson (#1 Cancer Hospital), Baylor College of Medicine, Houston Methodist, and Texas Children’s, it shouldn’t be ignored. Additionally, Rice also seems to have a very strong relationship with BCM (they almost merged a few years back) and sends many of its grads there. I can also confirm how easy it is to get research in the TMC, for multiple friends of mine, as well as myself, have gotten to do research at MD Anderson as high schoolers. Rice also has the BioScience Research Collaborative, which further cultivates the relationship between Rice and the TMC. Here, Rice educators and students work hand-in-hand with professionals from the TMC on leading research in human medicine and health.
On campus research is also widely available (paid and unpaid) thanks to Rice’s 60/40 undergrad to grad student ratio. Furthermore, Rice’s smaller size allows students to form personal relationships with professors, which makes finding research opportunities that much easier. I even remember reading how some CS professors were personally inviting students to do research with them over the summer, but were having difficulty because almost all the students had internships lined up.
Campus: Personally, I find Rice’s campus to be absolutely beautiful. It is almost like a little oasis in the middle of a massive city. The campus is fairly small, but not too constricting. There are large open fields, tons of shaded walkways and resting areas, and a 5k loop around campus that is perfect for jogging. It is a self-contained campus (which I prefer because it doesn’t isolate specific groups) opposed to one sprawled throughout a city. And finally, it just seems to convey this sense of calm energy that makes you feel at home. I highly suggest you try and visit campus, or at least look at Google street view because it’s sight I would hate for you to miss.
Social: As I’m sure you are aware, Rice utilizes the residential college system. This is where freshman are randomly (except for legacy) sorted into one of the 11 different residential colleges on Rice’s campus. These colleges serve as a student’s home over their entire Rice experience, providing an immediate sense of community to entering freshman and act as a social/party unit for all of the college’s members. They really help students develop a sense of family on campus, for nothing brings people together like a little camaraderie and healthy competition against the other colleges. Since the colleges are composed of students from all years, they provide an excellent support structure and place get advice regarding classes, professors, etc.
Onto parties, Rice has a reputation in Texas for throwing some pretty eccentric, odd, and really fun parties–let’s say that none of my friends at Rice seem to be overly bored. Without the presence of frats on campus and with the residential colleges acting as the major social unit, much of that sense exclusivity is eliminated. Rice is also the only wet campus in Texas meaning alcohol is definitely present. Cops are not overly stringent on drinking age requirements (as long as you aren’t driving or making a ruckus) and private parties have mostly free rein. However, just because Rice has two pubs on campus doesn’t mean people are pressured to drink. None of my friends, some of whom don’t drink, have ever told me they felt uncomfortable. Rice being a wet campus coupled with the relaxed atmosphere prevents a divide from forming between drinkers and non-drinkers and actually encourages people to stay on campus to have fun.
Community. I have referenced this a couple times, but not without reason. Rice serves as a community for its students, and it isn’t one built on competitiveness or trying to best the person next to you. Instead, it’s about shared success and the desire to actually learn. Students are encouraged to work together and the generous honor code allows for a bunch of freedom. There will no doubt be some students who never venture out of their dorm room and fight for every point of their GPA, but they are by far in the minority. There’s definitely a reason why Rice is ranked #1 for Happiest Students.
Traditions: From an outsider’s point of view there are 3 main traditions in which Rice students often partake. The first being undoubtedly beer bike. This is where each residential college fields a team of bikers and chuggers. They then compete in three divisions: men’s, women’s, and alumni (it’s that big of a deal), in a relay race. Reminder, this only occurs after a massive campus-wide water balloon fight. Can’t forget that part! (For those concerned: no, the chuggers are not actually chugging beer but rather water.) Another historical tradition is Baker 13 where students will run around campus wearing nothing but shoes and shaving cream every 13th and 31st at 10:00 pm armed with cans of shaving cream. And finally, there are ton of traditions unique to each college that help to further create a sense of identity.
Academics: The academics at Rice are absolutely top notch, and not just the STEM fields for which Rice is well know. Those interested in business, economics, or finance can benefit from the Baker Institute, a nonpartisan public policy think-tank, located right on campus. Those who love the natural sciences have fantastic opportunities waiting across the street in the TMC. And everybody has access to some of the best professors in the world.
Common Concerns: Many people seem to be concerned about Rice being in Texas. To this I would like to point out that while Texas is usually a solid red state, all of the major cities in Texas lean left and Rice students in particular voted 90%+ Clinton/3rd party. In fact, right now in the Architecture building window there is a sign that says “No Ban No Wall.”
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Another concern prefrosh often have is a perceived lack of diversity due to ~40% of the incoming class coming from Texas. I completely understand why this may seem alarming, but something many people fail to fully grasp is the size of Texas. It actually takes about the same amount of time to drive from Houston, TX to El Paso, TX as it does to cross 3 state borders and drive from El Paso to Los Angeles, CA. There is a wide range of people in Texas and diversity rankings prove this, for Rice is ranked the 5th most diverse college by Best Colleges and 24th by US News (preceded by 4 other TX colleges).
People also often cite the weather as a big concern. While Houston does get pretty darn hot, most of the unbearable weather and unflattering humidity occurs during the summer. In fact, I think the weather during the school year is actually a pretty big plus, because apart from California or Florida, where else can you go the whole year wearing practically only shorts and the occasional sweatshirt? Plus, hanging out outside or in the courtyard is pretty much possible and comfortable all year round. I will concede though that Houston is definitely humid.
Rice may not be for you if…
You want a social system dominated by Greek life,
You want to go to big sports school filled with “Ra ra ra” enthusiasm,
You cannot stand humidity,
You have to go to a place where it snows,
Or you want to go to a large university.
I hope this was helpful!
I’ll throw in my 2 cents on the cities…I have lived in all three. My wife and I are Rice graduates, and my brother and his wife are Duke graduates. Living in Nashville now, we have plenty of friends from Vandy. We all loved our college experiences. My daughter got in to all three, but is going to none of them. Go figure. (actually not much of a mystery for us…we decided that money did matter after all.)
Rice/Houston. Houston is a big city, but as many have mentioned Rice is in a very nice part of it. That being said, you may have to spend one year off campus (guaranteed 3 of 4 years, still I believe) and I was actually robbed and shot at in my apartment parking lot near Rice while I was there (clearly I survived!). Rice is surrounded by hedges, and you spend most of your time inside the hedges, and other than the skyline of the medical center next door you can easily forget that you are in one of the US’s largest cities. Unlike many universities, there is no cluster of nice student apartments right next to campus that is virtually a part of the campus. The research opportunities at Rice and Texas Med Center for students are plentiful, and the science education is top notch. Rice is not a place for grade inflation, however, and that could be a slight minus when applying for med school. If you test well and get to MCAT scores, it won’t matter. Some have said that Rice is weak on school spirit; I disagree. Rice has a lot of spirit, it is just based around the school’s unique traditions and residential colleges. As some have mentioned, Rice obstinately holds onto its Texas “wet” campus tradition, and there is definitely a drinking culture there, even if Beer-Bike is now mostly Water-Bike.
Duke/Durham. Should really be Duke/Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill. Durham is small and poor, and has a noticeable class divide, but it does not really exist on it’s own – it is contiguous with Raleigh and Chapel Hill. Having lived as an adult in all three cities, this area of NC was actually our favorite – we just liked the people and environment. The size of all three cities combined is about the same as Nashville, but because they are in a triangle the traffic was much better than anywhere else of that size we have lived. As I mentioned, my brother loved his time at Duke, and being a part of frat/sorority life and loving Duke Basketball are big helps to enjoying your time there. Duke will prepare you well for Med School, and there are a lot of good ones in NC. Both Rice and Vandy are islands in an urban environment; Duke is an island surrounded by Duke-owned forests. If you like that environment, you definitely would prefer Duke.
Vandy/Nashville. Nashville is a great mid-sized american city with a lot of personality. Research opportunities are harder to get at Vandy – accepted students are already lining up their opportunities because by the time they actually start in the fall it will be too late. Objectively, Vanderbilt may have great U/G research opportunities, but compared to the other two, it is a distant third. Vandy has frats/sororities, but it is not as important a part of campus social life as it is at Duke. Vandy is in more of a “city” area of Nashville than Rice is in Houston, but there is a lot of character to the areas near the campus, and Nashville is pretty compact, so nothing is very far away. We like Nashville a lot, but it’s still a second for us to Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill. However most people here love it. I don’t get the sense that grades are as hard here as they are at Rice, but I haven’t actually gone to this school, so take that for what it is worth.
Weather at Duke and Vandy will be very similar through all 4 seasons. Rice obviously can be very hot for the first few weeks, but there are few times I can remember going a week in winter and not wearing shorts. I loved that, but it comes down to personal preference. All three are excellent schools with wonderful campuses. Enjoy your next four years!
@Gh0st3737 and @NashvilletoTexas - thank you very much for your insights. I am visiting Rice for Owl Days this week and Duke later this month. We decided to scratch Vandy off the list - no scholarship there.
@badyork @scover17 @sgopal2 @mommyrocks @Charleigh @Gh0st3737 @NashvilletoTexas - as you would notice from my profile pic, I have decided to attend Rice! Thank you all for your comments and feedback.
Congratulations and best wishes! Revive this thread in 4 years and let us know where you are going to med school.