D21 is planning to major in Math Econ & CS (career in economic consulting, international development with future grad school, not finance/ business) and has narrowed her choice to these two colleges - she has a Presidential Scholarship (1/3rd tuition) to URichmond, which would make Hamilton ~$80K more expensive (over 4 yrs).
URichmond has impressed with the campus, facilities (dorms/dining), career services/ internships (ranked #6 by Princeton Review for both), Richmond guarantee & administration seems really focused on making the school better.
Hamilton is more prestigious (?), #9 on USNWR LAC ranking, stronger academic reputation/ econ faculty, focus on writing, lower presence of Greek life, more intellectual/ open student community (?)
Thoughts/ advice/ suggestions from this forum ? How are career services/internships at Hamilton - is Richmond truly much better ? Does Hamiltonâs prestige / academic reputation make a big difference in grad schools or recruiting ?
Does Hamiltonâs prestige translate to $80,000 more value than U Richmond? How many years will she have to work to recoup that difference? Richmond is a fine school. Itâs ranked 22 in the USNWR, not exactly near the bottom of the list. If your daughter thinks she will be happy at Richmond, I donât see any world where Hamilton is $80,000 more valuable.
I think my daughter will be happy at Richmond, but might be happier at Hamilton (who knows, right !) which has been her dream school - she loves the focus on developing her writing skills at Hamilton & thinks that the community/vibe at Hamilton might be a better fit for her more introverted, intellectual nature - this is based mostly on reading about Hamilton online, its been hard to get an actual sense of campus life / students in virtual info sessions & tours. Am trying to understand how much Hamilton is objectively better (or not) vs a more subjective âboth are nice, but Hamilton seems nicerâ !
How does your daughter feel about school size? Richmondâs student body is double that of Hamiltonâs. Does she care about being near a sizable city? Hamilton is gorgeous, but pretty isolated. I have a freshman at Hamilton and we could not be happier with the school - love the setting and they have done a tremendous job managing the pandemic on all fronts (precautions, communications, abundant safe activities, etc.) and my kid has been so grateful to be able to be on campus. The focus on writing is real and my kid intends to major in creative writing, so that was a big draw and has not disappointed.
With Hamilton, you would be paying for more than prestige, you would be paying for its academic quality and atmosphere sustained across four years. Along these lines, Hamilton was among the colleges recognized by Forbes as being worth its price:
Right, but is it $80,000 nicer? If she applied to Richmond, she must have had good reasons for doing so. I guess you have to decide if you want to spend that money.
If you were talking about Hamilton versus, say Juniata, I would say that Hamilton is perhaps worth the extra investment, though Juniata isnât terrible and is one of the Colleges that Change Lives. But youâre talking about two top colleges. Richmond is a top college, and being ranked 22 is not much different than 9. Both are great schools. Your idea of prestige is faulty, because Hamilton and Richmond are BOTH very prestigious. People who matter will know about both these schools and no employer will say âHmm. This kid attended Richmond, not prestigious enough for us. Next.â
If there is a strong preference for Hamilton College, then the difference in cost should be discussed with Hamilton office of admissions & financial aid to determine whether or not there is an acceptable way to lessen the COA gap.
Agree with the above post that both are highly regarded schools. If consulting is the goal, then communicate with the career placement offices at each school before deciding.
$80,000 is an interesting figure as it is about the COA of a one academic year masters program at elite private universities (such as Duke-Fuqua School of Business) for recent college grads with less than one year of post undergraduate work experience. This type of program gives the student a second chance at being hired by a target consulting firm.
If you think Hamilton is a better fit for your daughter, that would be a legitimate reason to pay the extra $80K. However, I wouldnât pick Hamilton over Richmond because of prestige.
Thanks for the suggestions - we plan to talk to the office of admissions, but since we donât qualify for need based aid and Hamilton doesnât have any merit aid, itâs probably unlikely they will/can do anything to reduce the COA.
Both schools have alumni at the target econ consulting firms, career services at Richmond does seem to be a notch above, especially in helping students actively network with alumni.
âbest fitâ is really hard to figure out this year since the usual admitted student events on campus have all been cancelled - no opportunity to stay in a dorm, attend lectures, meet other students etc. Sheâs done zoom calls with students from both schools, but you donât really get much from a 15 minute call with a handful of selected students
Not so long ago, students never visited until move in day. She can check out Instagram and Facebook pages, read reviews on Niche and Unigo, and read the Fiske guide, which I have always found to be quite accurate in describing the social and academic vibe of a college.
One other question is whether Hamilton might be a better school for someone who is focused on a career in economics vs econ as a stepping stone to Wall St/finance/ business. Richmondâs econ faculty I think are in the Robins School of Business - they do have a Math Econ program in Arts & Sciences, not sure if most the RIchmond Econ grads are from Robins (Business Economics) or CAS
I would visit both, if possible. They are adequately different that she will very likely feel more at home at one than the other.
If they are even after that, I would definitely recommend URichmond due primarily to the $80k in savings.
If she strongly prefers Hamilton, well, then you have to decide whether the $80k difference in cost is doable.
Both are fine schools. Hamilton does have more of a rep for intellectualism, but I feel safe in saying that there are intellectual (life of the mindâŠ) types at Richmond too. She will find her people and her interests will very likely be met at either school.
I am blown away that your HS student knows what a consultant at a consulting firm actually does, let alone have a âtarget econ consultingâ firm. I always tell my D21 that sheâd be a great consultant as she is very analytical, majoring in neurosci and minoring in Econ and a FL, and loves doing her lab researchâŠand she thinks consulting sounds âboring and vagueâ:). Would love to know how your student became interested in it so I could steer D21 to become more familiar with what it might entail as a career.
I agree that this sounds like Hamilton would be a better fit than Richmond. Would you have to take out loans for the additional $80K and/or would the extra dollars place financial burden on your family?
I agree with the others though that there is not a prestige difference between these two schools and both will allow for a career in consulting (which is very broad).
Will you be able to visit either? Richmond is open for visits. I donât know about Hamilton, but do know that NY state has dropped the various testing requirements for visitors.
Richmond is an excellent school, in terms of âprestigeâ itâs barely distinguishable from Hamilton. Yes Hamilton is #9 and Richmond #22 on US News, but that is truly insignificant in the big picture. In my view, it comes down to your financial situation and fit. An $80K difference needless to say is a significant difference. To me the other school would have to be truly at a whole other level to justify the price difference. If she has her heart set on Hamilton and itâs not going to kill you are her financially then go for it.
Weâve visited Richmond and are visiting Hamilton this weekend to a self guided tour - there arenât any in-person events. $80K is affordable, but also not insignificant - we arenât thaat wealthy
@2ndthreekids Weâve spent time over the past couple of years making her a part of dinner conversations with friends in different fields and then discussing different career paths - banking, consulting, tech, business, startups, enterpreneurship, etc Sheâs been interested in Econ since 8th grade and weâve got relatives who work in development / non-profits in India who have inspired her - my wife & I are in routine corporate jobs !!
@aswinraj Congrats to your daughter on two excellent choices. Tough call, but if she likes the writing program and it is her dream school, she has likely explored the pros and cons of each. Hamilton is also very well known for its open curriculum. It comes down to fit (if money were the same) and where she will be most successful.
Thanks for the feedback! I am retired from banking and my spouse is a CFO, so they heard plenty growing up about our careers and we must be the ones coming across and boring and vague:). She spent a summer in an office internship and her takeaway was âI need a job that doesnât involve me sitting in a chair in an office all dayâ. Development in India sounds way more interestingâŠ
Your daughter got into Hamilton. Hamiltonâs selectivity rank in U.S. News places it tied for 5th within the National Liberal Arts category, with Williams and Swarthmore. By comparison, URichmond placed tied for 28th, with Denison and a few other colleges. By this standard, this represents a greater separation than general rankings suggest.
A Hamilton education combined with its career services evidently produces excellent results. By information available through U.S. News, Hamilton grads earn more than UR grads in early career salaries. For further context, Hamilton grads earn the most from any of the 10 NESCAC LACs.
Subjectively, Hamilton offers an especially intellectual environment for those who seek it. A new Hamilton professor contrasted Hamilton with Stanford, but facets of this might apply to UR as well:
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The above said, I donât especially recommend Hamilton to students without wide academic interests. While Hamilton offers superb departments in economics, math and CS, it truly shines for students who seek to explore diverse academic areas beyond their major(s), such as literature, classics, political theory (government/sociology), geosciences and astronomy, as well as for those who might want to, say, learn to draw, write short fiction, or acquire a new language.
If you would like supporting sources for any of the above, let me know.
Besides the cost, how about looking at the upper level math, economics, and CS offerings at each school to see which may be a better academic fit for the goals?
Pre-PhD economics students should consider the math-intensity of the intermediate economics and econometrics courses.
