<p>If you are a great student you may thank your mom for insisting that you apply to the ivy or similar schools. Students that require aid especially alot of it, do very well financially at the very top schools.</p>
<p>I was thinking along the same lines of momma-three’s response. You have nothing to lose by applying to Ivies or top LAC (schools your mom wants for you) AND Carleton, Oberlin, etc. (schools you want for you). Not only might you do very well financially at top schools, but you might just fall in love with one of them.
I take it you are in the NE/Conn area? Is there something specific drawing you to the schools you mentioned you’re interested in (programs in specific subjects you want to pursue, etc.)?<br>
I guess all I’m saying is that in the same way your mom shouldn’t discard schools simply because they aren’t in an elite (to her) category, you shouldn’t discount schools simply because they are.
Again, good luck…</p>
<p>Along the lines of astrdeb’s suggestion, maybe you can share this list of the undergraduate origins of PhDs with your mom. Lots of LACs including Oberlin and a lot less of the Ivies. </p>
<p>[REED</a> COLLEGE PHD PRODUCTIVITY](<a href=“http://www.reed.edu/ir/phd.html]REED”>Doctoral Degree Productivity - Institutional Research - Reed College)</p>
<p>Along with the great advice about showing your mom the statistics about successful people coming out of the schools you like, it might also be helpful to give her examples of people who DIDN’T get amazing jobs right out of Yale, etc. She seems to think it’s black and white, whereas it could be helpful to show her it is ALL grey – you can be very successful from any school, and you can wind up unemployed (or working at a bagel shop) for a few years out of the very top schools. </p>
<p>Also, yes, showing her ranking might help, esp of LACs. Carleton is more highly ranked than several of the schools she thinks are part of the elite, and if she’s the kind of person who puts weight in ranking, that might help sway her. </p>
<p>Plus, it might generally show her that she doesn’t really understand everything…especially about LACs. I mean, if you’re going to claim you can only make it at a few LACs and then NOT include Amherst and Swarthmore on that list, you are REALLY behind the times. </p>
<p>Maybe when she realizes she doesn’t even have a grasp on which schools are considered the “best of the best,” she’ll also acknowledge that maybe she’s wrong about other things about college too? Or at least acknowledge that the other schools you like are ALSO some of the best schools out there (which they are)? </p>
<p>Though I also agree that you should also see if you can find at least a couple of the schools on her “good schools” list that you’d be willing to apply to. For instance, if you like Carleton and Oberlin, you’d probably like Vassar too. Maybe Brown? Since they are all selective, it’s worthwhile to apply to more than too anyway, if you think you might like them, and then you can at least say you tried.</p>
<p>Happydad’s family is Cuban, so I’ve seen some craziness in my time. One cousin’s wife is still bitter almost 40 years later because her parents wouldn’t let her go to Julliard because “nice girls don’t sing in public”. Perhaps your mother regrets her choice of college, the limits that were placed on her by her parents and her life at that time, and what she perceives as the long-term effects of these limits, and so she wants you to be able to do what she couldn’t. She truly may not understand that you can get where ever you want to go in life starting at UConn (or whichever place is your favorite). She may not realize the options available to you now for a semester abroad, or research with a professor, or whatever it is that you want to do.</p>
<p>You have time on your side. As you work through this whole process, she will get a better idea of what really is available out there, and a betters sense of what it is you want to do with your college education and your life. Ten paciencia, y suerte con todo.</p>
<p>If mother is not paying for college, than all the power is in your hands. You paying, your decision, mom has nothing to loose. Point out to her politely that this the the rules of engagement. The fact that mom does not understand it kind of unusual.</p>
<p>I have to disagree with the sentiment that OP has nothing to lose by applying to the schools that her mother wants for her. If those schools aren’t good fits for her and she gets accepted, the pressure to attend could cause an irreparable rift in the relationship.</p>
<p>On the other hand it could be a good experience in listening to one another and also setting boundaries. Student who is accepted into Uber school and looks at $$$$ price tag with parent can have some good discussions about Happy School for $$ price tag.</p>
<p>calgirl… My suggestion was that if finances are a concern than the OP (providing stats meet the top schools) may want to consider applying because if need is an issue than the top schools will be far more generous (especially with kids who have extreme need).</p>
<p>Just a question - have you visited an Ivy? It may not be as bad as you think! I suggest including one in your list of schools - reach/match/safety. I’m not a big Ivy type person - my whole family has gone to big state schools and I had a wonderful experience at Michigan - but my oldest ended up at an Ivy that had a top rated program in her major. It wasn’t her first choice when she applied but she was so impressed with the program that it was a no-brainer to go there. </p>
<p>Seems like you will need to weigh the aid packages you get from a variety of schools and pick the best value - so dont rule out any school at this point.</p>
<p>ShanghaiMom,
My D is very impressed with everything at her state U, including extremely challenging academics. Impressive programs exist everywhere, even if they are not top rated. Also, very high caliber standout students have very many opportunities at state U over general student body, they get hand picked by profs, showered by numerous Scholarships and grants for Research. It is truly much more up to a student than the name of institution. The top hard working ones have it very good no matter where they go, but some places might be way cheapper (or even free) for them.</p>
<p>I should add that my d was out of state everywhere since we lived overseas at the time. That made State U and Ivy fairly close in price with very similar programs. Ivy got the edge due the vibrant atmosphere - students seemed much more into the program and their education than at the State U - but that could just be good marketing!</p>
<p>I loved my experience at Michigan - more for the social and extra curricular activities that I was involved in than from the academics. Academically I was a bit lost in the shuffle of a big school until my senior year. I ended up working for a few years then going back for an MBA but at a smaller school I could see myself going a different direction.</p>
<p>OP…you say your mom is a cuban immigrant. Congratulations! We are a mixed family too with my H an immigrant from LA also. We feel your pain about “name recognition” being the deciding factor on the value of college education for the spanish speaking side of the family.</p>
<p>…no one in H’s family has heard of any US university except HYP and regard state schools with great suspicion…mainly because the public universities back home have become bastions of mediocre education controlled by the student and faculty unions. Very unfortunate! So with your mother, along with most immigrants from Latin America, have the impression that you will leave a state school as a radicalized, unemployable 22 year old so you need to help educate your mother about the reality of the US college system. Be aware there are limits to how far she will be able to get over years of bias. Don’t act superior, just tell her things have changed a lot over the last few years…and all the other good advice of other posters. </p>
<p>Go to the Hispanic students forum on CC…look for posts on resources and scholarships for Hispanic students. There are some incredibly helpful and knowlegeable parents working that forum. How did the PSAT go for you this year? If you scored high, you may be eligible for National Hispanic Scholar…please check with the college board if you scored anywhere near or above 185 because it varies greatly by state. Your guidance counselor may not realize that you qualify especially if your last name is not spanish-sounding. It may not be too late to get this honor and it opens a lot of doors/scholarships.</p>
<p>Suerte!</p>
<p>ShanghaiMom,
Your impression of difference between Ivy and State U might be true for Business students. No average kid is surviving pre-med or engineering curriculum anywhere, they are much above average caliber students (I am not talking about ability, I am talking about work ethic and grades). Average kid will not be accepted at any Med. School in the USA no matter what UG they went. There are not that many classes that pre-meds and engineers can accomodate in their busy schedule where they will be mixed with general student body. Most of them took care of History and such taking APs in HS. Yes, maybe one English and Foreign language are left to take, basically couple, three classes for most of them, if any at all. It is hard to judge rigor of science and engineering classes without actually taking them.</p>
<p>My d is in Nursing so I guess it’s similar to a business program - the Ivy school students seemed so much more involved and enthusiastic about their program.<br>
Not sure what you are talking about after that though - I was an engineering student at Michigan and was really lost in the shuffle of big classes intent on weeding out students. I wasn’t weeded out but I also wasn’t very encouraged and I definitely wasn’t aware of any research opportunities. However my husband was also an engineer and did do research for a professor one summer so maybe I was just oblivious and too caught up in my various student activities.</p>
<p>My point to the OP is that they may have an unrealistic stereotype about what an Ivy school is and it’s worth checking it out before dismissing it totally.</p>