<p>Mominchicago, it would help if you were to give a an example of her top choice and one of her safeties so that we can see the differences you are considering. If its a choice between colleges like Penn and Case the differences are not very great. If its a choice between colleges like Northwestern and Wooster the differences are significant even though CoW is a highly regarded LAC in many circles.</p>
<p>Your "mistake" was allowing your daughter free reign during the college research and application process and telling her that you would "make it happen" somehow. It is now difficult to get those horses back in the barn and make your daughter understand. There are a lot of EFC calculators out there, and though they aren't perfect they may have given you cause to be a little less open ended about things. </p>
<p>But that is in the past. Your daughter should get those merit scholarship applications in asap if for no other reason than to give your family the complete picture on which the final choice will be based. In the end the differences may be less than anticipated and the choice may be easier for both you and your daughter.</p>
<p>However if the difference is significant you need to explain to your daughter in greater detail why she may have to reconsider things. We laid down certain financial guidelines early in his hs junior year and avoided issues that you are now facing. But explained the reasons in detail and he understood and appreciated them. And you should also have ready some options of what she can do to make her top choices work-college loans($20-24000 tops), fulltime+ summer jobs, work during the school year within limits(12-15 hrs/wk tops). While these things will not fill the financial gap you would like they would demonstrate her willingness to sacrifice for her first choice and perhaps convince you to stretch more too.</p>
<p>If she continues to balk at being more proactive you are in an unenviable predicament. But it is quite likely that her outburst last nite was as a result of emotional stress and will be able to calmly consider all options in the days ahead.</p>
<p>I've never been one to tip-toe or psycho-babble with my kids; they knew from the outset that I "wasn't going to make it happen" somehow. I think too many kids believe that - and I can completely see why parents in the first go-round might strike that note. It's a confusing mess out there! And then you suddenly realize you could be looking at $16,000 bills coming twice a year. :eek:</p>
<p>Anyway, if you spend any time on the student forums on here you'll see your daughter isn't the only one who might feel disappointed right now. Lots of kids and parents are suddenly realizing they can't afford their ED schools. The other thing you see a lot is kids transferring out after freshman year - they're out of money.</p>
<p>People (kids too) always suffer from that "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" problem. And it doesn't help that there's so much chit-chat and one-up-man-ship (s?) at school. </p>
<p>She must have chosen her schools for a reason. Encourage (OK - just TELL her) her to KEEP AN OPEN MIND about the entire list. She'll be more fortunate than the vast majority of American (to say nothing of world) teens if she manages to actually attend one of those.</p>
<p>I have a good friend in exactly this situation. They had given a "we'll make it work somehow" message, but then when they saw actual EFC, knew they'd have to change their tune. Their D had a meltdown at first, but then went to her room and applied to a few more schools that would give financial safety. They're all breathing a lot easier. On the other hand, if their D got into her "dream school", an Ivy, I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to make it work somehow.</p>
<p>We were in a similar situation before Christmas. Daughter has had her heart set on a pretty expensive school for years. I, of course, would rip my heart out and give it to her if she asked, so I lost a lot of sleep over the guilt on this. Could I work a second job? Sell a kidney, something, to give her what she wanted. But, ultimately, I came to realize that it's simply not possible for us to pay that money. She applied to 8 schools and has been accepted at 7, with substantial merit money at 3 and waiting to hear on money packages at the others. Based on information I received from the kind people here, I did a spreadsheet of costs for each college and ran a calculator to show what the cost per month would be for her for 10 years if she took loans to cover the difference between what we could pay and the cost of the expensive colleges. Zoosergirl didn't say anything, but took the papers and left. Fast forward to this past weekend. She received the acceptance to a five-year master's program at SUNY Plattsburgh in the field of her choice. Again, she didn't say anything right away. On Monday night, she came to the dining room with a stack of papers and some of her silly pens and told me that she has decided to accept her place at Plattsburgh because she feels this will best suit her needs. She will come out of school at 22 with a bachelor's in biology, a master's in secondary education and 0 debt. Teaching high school biology is her dream, but she knows that she absolutely wants children and feels that this educational path will allow her to have a career and a family in the time and circumstance of her choosing. My husband and I respect, admire and support her. The eighth school to which she applied is the "dream school" and we have all agreed that if somehow she gets enough money to bring it down to or below Plattsburgh, she will reassess, but we know that's not likely. Oh, and as for guilt, you're going to have it anyway, so it might as well be for this as for something tragic.</p>
<p>You should feel guilty if you don't share the financial situation with her and help her understand that the right thing to do is to play out the options and consider all aspects of her college choice. I don't think parents are doing the right thing silently suffering financially while breaking the bank sending their kid who doesn't have a clue of that situation off to school. There is such thing as a moral education too, and that starts at home as charity does. Where your child goes to college is far less important than the values she holds.<br>
But as a mom, I can tell you that the guilt feelings are all a part of the journey for you. As inevitable as labor pains, and they last a whole lot longer.</p>
<p>Oh people, have a heart. Who among us hasn't made a financial miscaluation along the way, whether it's visiting a house with a realtor that we wouldn't have been able to afford unless we stopped eating, or buying Enron stock for our 401K????</p>
<p>To the OP-- of course you feel guilty and of course she's mad. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't spent much time in real life and has too much time in cyberspace IMHO. You all are entitled to your feelings; the real question is, are you going to allow those feelings to get in the way of you all making a good, rational decision come April??</p>
<p>If it were me, I'd invest an hour in a meeting with a bank loan officer or an on-line calculator. You and your daughter can sit down and assume various scenarios-- admitted to first choice school with no fin-aid. You can pay X; she's responsible for Y. How much would she need to earn over the summer and during the year, how much of a loan will she need to gap the difference, what will the payback scenario look like and for how long-- how much income does it take to pay off a loan of that magnitude, etc. Then go through the other scenarios-- cheaper school, merit aid, gap year to live at home, work a minimum wage job while saving her salary, etc.</p>
<p>Make a big chart with the various scenarios and then drop the subject until you all need to make a decision. You'd be surprised how rational a 17 year old can be when there are facts on the table.... right now she's assumed the facts in evidence, i.e. that if she gets into number 1 school you can afford to send her there. Once you've laid out all the other facts..... that in fact, you can only afford to send her there if she assumes a large chunk of the cost whether through loans, work, or both, she'll find a way to get those scholarship apps out so she can make a good decision in a few months.</p>
<p>Just a suggestion to people reading this thread with sophomores and juniors - NOW is the time start using the financial aid calculators on the CollegeBoard and various college sites to get a good idea of what your EFC will be. </p>
<p>We started running the numbers when D was a high school sophomore and then started looking at the cost of attendance. It still took a little while for reality to sink in. When her college list was finalized it included many schools that offered merit aid (we don't qualify for need based) and she chose a school which offered her a full tuition plus room allowance scholarship.</p>
<p>Because of running the numbers early, she was aware of how much we would have to pay to send her to school and she takes great pride that she is "paying" for her undergrad (so we can pay for graduate school).</p>
<p>Cost of school IS part of the process of choosing. Do you feel guilty that your job is paying only so much and not triple amount of it? . Do you feel guilty that your child is wearing whatever clothes she is wearing and you can not provide her with credit card with no limit to buy anything she wants? Did you not gave her pink Corvette for sweet 16?
I would advice to sit down with your child and discuss your financial situation- how much you can afford and what are her financial options have to be. Your child is going to be adult living on her own pretty soon. No guilt trip, just reality check.</p>
<p>Whether FAFSA or the college regards money spent should have gone for college expenses does not address the moral issue or choice that any family has to make in certain situations. Though we always have a choice, and there has to be a line in the finanacial aid world as to what situations should get consideration, the actual choice of helping someone who is not immediate family or not family at all, might be the "right" one given the relationship at hand. I have known many who have helped nephews and cousins who are truly needy, to a point where it may have inmoral to them and to many of us not to have intervened. Sometimes the relationship is such that the obligation is there, though it is considered a "choice". I find it upsetting that there is a jump on those who the EFC but are bound by other important considerations (those considered important by FAFSA,etc). They are not going to get the financial aid or the consideration; they don't need sneering comments about their choices. Yes, they will complain. And they have to figure out a way for themselves. There does not have to be such a meanspiritedness about those who have money but issues outside of FA consideration. Those issues can have merit too, and bless those who do help others even if FAFSA does not consider it in the methodology. Bless them even if they complain.</p>
<p>Calmom, I think you misunderstood the point of my post. I wasn't complaining or suggesting that colleges should consider how I spend my money when calculating FA. My note was addressed to posters such as danas who seem to think parents with comfortable incomes should feel obliged to pay for top-price colleges "just because". My point was that many people with good incomes spend a lot of that income in ways that other people cannot see. I have no desire to see FAFSA reworked to account for voluntary aid to family members, because it would be far too easy to cheat. The post wasn't about me and mine; I only used my own family as an example because I'm not nosy enough to know the details about anyone else.</p>
<p>WashDadJr has remained charmingly insouciant through this whole process. Except for not wanting to go to the local community college, his attitude has been "whatever happens is OK with me." When the rejection letter came in from MY first choice school, his response was, "Oh, OK. I guess we don't have to visit there." He went off to play a computer game. Frankly, after doing the financial discussion, and looking at where he might be admitted, his first choice is one of two real stretch schools with an ROTC scholarship, or New Mexico Tech with a merit scholarship. (When he visisted the NMT Website and found out that they are one of the schools that operates the Very Large Array radio telescope for NASA, and that they have an explosives research program, he almost accepted that day.)</p>
<p>I know I'm rambling here, but I guess I'm just really grateful that he doesn't have his heart set on anywhere in particular.</p>
<p>My parents had a similar situation. Both me + my brother were admitted to UMich (great school, in-state so only 18k). However, in my brother's case he wants to go OOS to a difference school (I'm sure he'll get into at least a couple of the schools he applied to like Northwestern, Cornell, WashU, and other schools around that level). My parents told us that they would be willing to pay about 22k (a little more then how much it would cost to go to UMich), and the difference in the actual price of the college and the 22k they would be willing to pay would be how much my brother would have to make up in loans/scholarships/work-study/etc. Originally, our family calculated our EFC to be about 22k a year, so he would probably have around 5-10k in loans per year which he would have to pay off. Both me + my brother thought this was quite fair, considering that UMich is not that much worse of a college compared to some of the top 10ish schools. </p>
<p>However, when our EFC actually turned out to be 28k a year, my brother was obviously quite unhappy with the fact that my parents would only be willing to pay 22k a year, but he understood where my parents were coming from, and may be willing to pay the extra money if he really wishes to go there.</p>
<p>Another thing that really helped both me + my brother understand our parents was the fact that we never had our hearts set on any particular school.</p>
<p>This thread is a great cautionary tale about running the EFC numbers and having the finances conversation at the outset of the college search process or even earlier. How I wish I'd been reading CC when my kid was 8 years old; the paltry balance in her OMG-I-started-way-too-late 529 college-savings acct. might look a lot different.</p>
<p>WashDad: This is SO funny:
[quote]
When the rejection letter came in from MY first choice school, his response was, "Oh, OK. I guess we don't have to visit there." He went off to play a computer game.
<p>Oh, how I feel for you! I worked in financial aid years ago at a school that was expensive & didn't offer much in the way of merit aid. I talked with so many parents who were stunned by their EFC's & had to make some very hard choices. I really think guidance counselors would be doing families a great service if they would give all students/parents info about the whole financial aid process in sophomore year.</p>
<p>It's too late now, of course, for you to go back in time and do it differently. You need to make the difficult choice: are you going to help her by taking out the loans, or not? If so, feel free to seek comfort from other overburdened parents on CC --- but don't make your D feel bad, because you chose to do it. You can, of course, "expect" her to be eternally grateful and take care of you in your old age!! If you choose not to take out the loans, talk to her right away about the reality your family is facing. It would be a good lesson about finances. Too often we protect our kids from the very things they need to know about in life.</p>
<p>I guess I was fortunate because of my background. I knew we couldn't do the need-only route. D was a bit bummed about that at first, but she got over it. She concentrated on schools where merit aid was a strong possibility. That left out the ivies & well-known LAC's, but she eventually decided they weren't for her, anyway. She didn't even apply just to see if she could get in, as many of her friends did. I encourage anyone starting out in the process to run their numbers in the FAFSA calculator (& do a CSS check, if looking at the selective private schools). There are so many wonderful schools, and the web makes it easy to research them.</p>
<p>I was interested in reading a reference to COW in the context of choosing between a school with great merit aid and a school offering no merit aid. D will probably not be eligible for financial aid.</p>
<p>What can people tell me about COW? D is very excited about their IS program and the school appears to be very interested in her. She is a good student and I want her to be at a school where she will be challenged , as well as supported.</p>
<p>Would appreciate hearing from people who know this school. I have been inpressed by positive references to it in earlier posts.</p>
<p>Rita. Welcome to the board. We have some Ohioans on here so someone should know. I'd suggest making yourself a thread here on the Parents Forum. Use College of Wooster instead of COW. Half the people here will think the COW you speak of is purple and resides in the Berkshires. .;)</p>
<p>Just click the "new thread" button.</p>
<p>As to the other part of your question-yeah. We lived that choice last year . P.M. me if you want details.</p>
<p>Thanks Curmudgeon. I'd love to hear about your D/S experience last year. How can I P.M you about this? And how can I start a new thread for College of Wooster?</p>