Help with my Brown Decision!

<p>I really really really want to love Brown but after going to dartmouth’s dimensions I have become to question some things. First of all, I learned so much more at Dartmouth’s dimensions and this has led me to question Brown’s ability to promote and organize (the latter being a big problem at ADOCH). So here are my questions:

  1. Dartmouth makes traveling abroad so easy and is even wiling to pay for most of it. Is this similar at Brown? are there language requirements to go?
  2. I loved Dartmouth’s political discussion. There were many different views and they seemed to be respected and not immediately rejected. Is Brown’s political discussion as one-sided as it seems? Is there an republican political undercurrent at all?
  3. School unity at Dartmouth was amazing. People honestly loved their school. Although i stayed a shorter time at Brown, I did not get the same sense of unity. Is this a wrong interpretation?
  4. Dartmouth seems to have many programs for freshmen bonding (ie the five day camping trip and sophomore summer). Does brown have similar programs?
  5. Will Brown match Dartmouth’s financial aid? There was an 8,000 difference which could have a big impact on my admission. Also, if they can match this descion will they only match it for freshman year or will they continue to set the lower bar.
  6. Brown’s freshmen dorms that i stayed in weren’t that great. Do they get better as the you get older. Are apartments available?
  7. What is Brown’s social scene like? Is it a bunch of kids drinking and being promiscuous (which was my impression when i visited)? My host came back to the dorms drunk and had a late nite “visitor” (if you get my drift)
    I will add more questions as they come up…I love Brown but going to dimensions raised a few concerns. BTW things about Dartmouth that i didn’t like were its complete isolation, cliquish nature, frat parties as the main social scene. Please help me answer these questions because they will really help me in my decision!!! THANKS!!</p>

<p>lot's of questions :) for the record, my younger brother is graduating from dartmouth this year and i love both schools</p>

<ol>
<li><p>brown has its own study abroad programs in 14 countries and supports students in alternative programs in nearly 50 additional countries--together, this covers almost anywhere you could want to go. If you qualify for financial aid, brown will cover you for your semesters abroad. language requirements depend on which program you would like to attend. more info can be found here
Brown</a> University Office of International Programs | Home</p></li>
<li><p>there is a vocal and intelligent conservative presence at brown, just like at dartmouth. see The</a> Brown University Spectator
furthermore, brown has launched students from both ends of the political spectrum into high-profile public office
U</a>. grads in politics shake liberal stereotype - Campus News</p></li>
<li><p>Brown students (and alums) love Brown. Hence the ranking for the happiest students.</p></li>
<li><p>Brown has a similar camping trip at the beginning of sophomore year
BOLT</a> -Brown Outdoor Leadership Training
In addition, Brown has several other traditions that students bond over, including the midnight organ concerts, campus dance, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>brown will most likely match your offer from dartmouth.</p></li>
<li><p>freshman dorms at brown vary in quality just as they do at dartmouth and housing tends to get much better (with more options) as you become an upperclassman. actually, my brother's dorm his freshman year at dartmouth was far worse than anything that exists at brown.
some of the housing at brown is great
Residential</a> Life: Residence Hall Map</p></li>
<li><p>brown has a diverse social scene with all types of people--it's almost impossible to not find a comfortable niche. unlike dartmouth, frats and house parties do not predominate--more intimate room parties or large campus wide events tend to be more of the norm at brown.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>best of luck with your decision and feel free to PM me!</p>

<p>we had a transfer from Dartmouth this past fall. he said there was too much drinking centered on frats and he was looking for a different environment</p>

<p>what you dont realize is that weather at darmouth sucks. Its nice for dimensions, and sucks everyone in, but the rest of the year its snowing and cold. i went to dartmouth a few days before dimensions last year and there was still snow on the ground.</p>

<p>the weather thing is true of all new england schools (though perhaps dartmouth moreso). probably a silly reason to choose a school either way
here is what brown looks like in all seasons
Flickr:</a> The Brown Annual Fund Photo Contest Pool</p>

<p>If you think the weather is a silly reason to choose a school when the destination is Hanover, NH I disagree</p>

<p>Sorry for posting this again. I thought it might help. Feel free to fill in any Brown gaps and things I might have left out. </p>

<p>This is so close to home, so I guess I'll write alot. Dartmouth/ Brown was my choice as well and I ended up choosing Dartmouth but not after some serious thinking. The funny thing is that even after serious contemplation, I literally could not decide and choose Dartmouth basically after a coin flip of sorts lol! During college I visited Brown probably 7-8 weekends, however, so I know it really well. The great news is there is no wrong choice: I loved Dartmouth more than anything, but I am totally convinced I would have loved Brown just as much. These are by far my two of most favorite schools (throw in Stanford as the other).</p>

<p>1) Academic scene
I don't know much about Brown except the obvious lack of a core. Dartmouth's distributives are very broad so honestly to me it was a benefit if anything in that it forced me to take a couple classes (like Acting for my art) that I might otherwise not have taken. Dartmouth is awesome in terms of teaching and professor engagement, and the school is absolutely focused on the undergrad. I was an anthro major and I got $10K for my thesis research and TWO incredibly active thesis advisors. I literally had some classes with less than five people at the upper levels. Dartmouth professors take you to dinner, they encourage you, and they are amazing. I think part of the reason Dartmouth grads do so well at grad school admissions is the fact that they know their professors so well. Frankly its amazing. I am sure Brown's academics are great too, but Dartmouth does have a terrific LAC-like feel. People love to discard the D-plan but I thought it was awesome. Sophomore summer is most students favorite term.</p>

<p>Job Placement?
Slight advantage to Dartmouth here in terms of recruiting.</p>

<p>Grad School Placement?
Both do amazingly well, I'd say equals</p>

<p>Study Abroad?
Most students at Dartmouth go on a study abroad, many go on 2-3. Its not only a thing to do, its a way of life. The language programs are OUTSTANDING, you not only have small classes a preperation, you have drill with its "rassias method" which is an amazingly fun way to really learn a language. Study abroad programs include a professor and about 20 other Dartmouth students (which is different from other schools which have people from al schools). There are special trips every weekend and you get to become incredibly close to your fellow Dartmouth students. Also since Dartmouth is on the quarter system it allows for multiple study abroads.</p>

<p>2) Campus location and closest city/town location
In my opinion Brown's nearby Thayer Street blows Hanover out of the water. East Providence is hip, cool, and there are alot of great restaurants and it really does cater to students. Providence itself isn't that wonderful, but its awesome in the area where Brown is located. Conversely, Hanover is beautiful but I found the town to be more stodgy and its not catered to students. In terms of the city, Brown wins bigtime.</p>

<p>ON the other hand, Dartmouth's location in the mountains is amazing. The outdoor access is awesome, people ski during the winters on the skiway, jump in the river in summers. To be honest only a select group of students are into the hardcore outdoors. Its the casual outdoor stuff like snowball fights during the winter, riding your bike through the beautiful fall leaves, the swimming in the river during summers, BBQs by houses on the river, the awesome stars when you are out at night, etc, etc. During the summer the campus feels like a magical summer camp, during the winters its charming and warm.</p>

<p>3) Social scene
Brown is very active socially. The dorms restrictions are very lax so first-year parties abound. There are house parties, frat parties, bars, and people even venture downtown to clubs. Its a larger scene, however. Different groups tend to stick together more, so its less community oriented. Its safe to say I think that people walk away with great friends, but it feels more like a University than Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Dartmouth is very community oriented. The Greek scene is huge, but its unlike any other greek scene anywhere. The houses are all open for parties to everyone and there's actually a campus list publishing the big parties that weekend. What usually happens is there will be two-three big dance parties a night plus lots of houses will have smaller groups hanging out. The cool thing is there is usually a lot of energy as everyone is going to the same key places or are at least aware of the big parties. Its absolutely open and everyone is absolutely friendly. In addition to the greek scene there is a house party scene, smaller gatherings in dorms, plus niche scenes like the organic farm crowd or the Ledyard Canoe club crowd. The nights are full of activity. </p>

<p>No question Dartmouth's downside is that its jock culture does have power. Also frats like Chi Heorot, Theta Delt, and Psi U are centered around sports teams and I think this can intimidating. The upside is there is a large social scene outside these places and many of the frats do not fit the typical frat stereotype. </p>

<p>I think its safe to say Brown has smaller gatherings for niche groups (although there are big parties!), while Dartmouth has bigger parties that everyone goes to all the time.</p>

<p>4) Campus population
Both are equally diverse, although Dartmouth is conceived as less diverse than Brown the truth is its actually slightly more diverse. But since its smaller the sheer number of members of these groups is smaller so it might feel less diverse. However, people interact between groups at Dartmouth amazingly well. Yet I think some minority groups find comfort in sticking together and someone who grew up only hanging out with a particular minority crowd might like Brown more. Also, Brown does "feel" more international in terms of student makeup.</p>

<p>In terms of student politics I would say there is a huge overlap of "liberal" students at both. Dartmouth is more accepting of people with a conservative (libertarian) point of view, but overall I'd say 75-80% of Dartmouth is liberal while 85-90% of Brown is liberal. Brown probably feels more liberal socially.</p>

<p>Overall thought the students at Dartmouth overwhelmingly are the playful, fun loving, brilliant type. People tend to play down themselves which is great and refreshing among the Ivies. My experience with Brown students is that they are very similar but a little more "edgy."</p>

<p>To be honest the fact that you've narrowed it down to these two means (In my opinion lol!) that you have impeccible taste when it comes to colleges. I've been to and know alums from many many schools and hands down these two seem to provide the best college experience. You just can't go wrong.</p>

<p>Like slipper1234 said, you really can't go wrong. However, if Brown doesn't match your financial aid package, I think that Dartmouth would be the better option. I think both schools are comparable in terms of how well they would educate you over the next four years, but don't underestimate the difficulties of coming out of college in debt. You'll surely regret it.</p>

<p>I am a student at Brown, but I have a very good friend at Dartmouth who loves it there as well, so I'd like to comment on the first post:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Traveling abroad is very easy at both schools. At Brown, you literally pay as if it were a semester on campus and the school covers all costs for the program of your choice. This is slightly more difficult if you're looking to design your own program, but very straightforward if you choose one of Brown's programs or 90 approved programs.</p></li>
<li><p>I'm not particularly into the political scene myself, but there are undergraduate groups for any kind of party you support (they like to have meetings in the common room of my dorm).</p></li>
<li><p>I agree with dcircle. I have not met a student here who doesn't absolutely love Brown. The no grades and no core make for a much more relaxed environment and people are ridiculously friendly.</p></li>
<li><p>Brown has it's own orientation and unit wars extravaganza. Personally, I loved my freshman unit. Dartmouth tends to have more outdoorsy programs simply because of its location and the student population really demands it. Brown is obviously more urban and social bonding events are focused more around performances and dances and carnivals and yeah...lots.</p></li>
<li><p>Absolutely send a copy of the financial package you received from Dartmouth. Most often Brown will match the offer (the only case where Brown may not is for international students where we are not completely need-blind).</p></li>
<li><p>If you stayed in Keeney, it is no question the dorms looked funky. Housing does get significantly better, though I had no trouble decorating my Keeney room. As a freshman, you can also live on Pembroke with much nicer rooms, where two adjoining doubles share a bathroom. I am currently a sophomore living in suite with a massive double and a single and two bathrooms (hence I get my own), so I absolutely love my housing now. I can't really speak for Dartmouth's dorms, but I've found the actual rooms to be nicer in urban schools (i.e. Columbia and NYU), simply because the more suburban you get, the easier it is to live off-campus.</p></li>
<li><p>Any college you go to will have drunk, promiscuous kids running around...that's life. ADOCH around here tends to be particularly roudy because high school students get to spend a night away from parents on a college campus and think they can get away with anything (I housed a couple last year and I had to stay up all night while one vommitted her brains out and one had to go to the ER). A typical weekend is far from that. There is definitely a party or two open every night, but there are also comedy performances, 18+ clubs open only to Brown students, and as someone said most students choose more chill dorm parties/gatherings/whatever you want to call thems.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I hope all of this helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to look up the Brown Bruins Club (the people who do all the tours and info sessions and all that fun stuff). They love to helpl.</p>

<p>does anyone think brown will match an offer for jhu for an urm. do i just send in jhu's offer and explain? or do i have to fillout all the other financial mumbojumbo</p>

<p>brown is less likely to match jhu because students disproportionately choose brown over jhu anyway...but you may be able negotiate some compromise. it's certainly worth a shot. you should call and ask.</p>

<p>Here's a couple more questions:
When I went to Dartmouth it seemed very cliquish. Is this a big problem there?
I visited a lot of the fraternities on both nights and the impression i got is all there is to do is drink and play beer pong. Is there any other form of night life? Also, is there a running club there?....because i am not fast enough to be on varsity but i would very much like to continue running. Thanks again!</p>

<p>in my experience, beer pong is HUGE at dartmouth...people play sometimes at brown, but it is like...part of their religion at dartmouth. the stereotype about drinking at dartmouth has some element of truth. </p>

<p>that being said, it is probably not impossible to find an alternate niche. for example, if you apply and get into the east wheelock dorm as a freshman there is basically no drinking--still, it is worth noting that the east wheelock kids are generally perceived to be isolated from the rest of the freshman class.</p>

<p>Wow, this thread about summed up everything that's going through my head! I'm making the Dartmouth/Brown decision, too. I'll throw in a couple more questions I have:</p>

<p>What are Brown's athletic facilities like? I toured Dartmouth's, and they were new and amaaazing.</p>

<p>When I was at Dimensions, someone told me she'd heard that at Brown, all the undergraduate kids are rich and kind of snobby, driving around their Mercedes and stuff. Is there any truth to that?</p>

<p>My mom is heavily favoring Brown. I guess Brown is slightly harder to get into, and she thinks that directly translates to being a much stronger school academically. Any opinions on that? (specifically science/premed)</p>

<p>How many classes do Brown kids take each term?</p>

<p>brown's current athletic facilities are mediocre but a brand new $50 million recreational fitness center will be completed in 2 years along with a brand new $30 million aquatic facility.
Building</a> Brown: Nelson Fitness Center and University Swim Center
when it's done, it will probably be the nicest rec sports facility anywhere</p>

<p>in the mean time, there is the OMAC (often cramped and crowded) and three satellite workout facilities in various dorms (these are quite new and have flat screen tvs and the like)</p>

<p>these are three different links with pictures (despite having the same title)
Brown</a> University Campus Recreation, Providence, Rhode Island
Brown</a> University Campus Recreation, Providence, Rhode Island
Brown</a> University Campus Recreation, Providence, Rhode Island</p>

<p>Thanks for the info. It doesn't look bad. Do you know anything about spinning classes or other group exercise classes?</p>

<p>"When I was at Dimensions, someone told me she'd heard that at Brown, all the undergraduate kids are rich and kind of snobby, driving around their Mercedes and stuff. Is there any truth to that?"</p>

<p>Wait, you're kidding right? I'm SURE there're lots of rich and snobby kids at Dartmouth too. In fact, I think there are wealthy kids at any of these schools. As far as I know, many of them, though not the majority, come from elite boarding schools. Nevertheless, after visiting Brown multiple times and having at least a dozen friends at Brown, I totally disagree with what your friend at Dimensions said...sorry it just sounds a little outrageous. I don't think freshman are even allowed to bring a car to school. Merely 4/5% of kids at Brown are RI residents and RI people (being a RIslander myself) are not snobbish....and I think most people don't even have cars on campus since it's so hard to find a parking spot and most kids come from faraway places.
Someone want to add on this?</p>

<p>brown and dartmouth are definitely academic peers, but each have some specialized areas of strength. brown has a clear advantage in the sciences, however, particularly life sciences on the basis of </p>

<ol>
<li><p>greater breadth of facilities including the newly opened $100 million life science building and $40 million center for genomics and proteomics</p></li>
<li><p>more rock star faculty (nobel laureates, macarthur winners, national academy members)</p></li>
<li><p>more NIH funding</p></li>
</ol>

<p>brown students typically take either 4 or 5 classes per term (it's up to you)</p>

<p>Wow, really?! That is a huge contrast to Dartmouth, where students take 3. It seems like it would be much harder to get good grades in 4 or 5 classes. Do they go a lot less in-depth at Brown?</p>

<p>New Construction:
Building</a> Brown: Projects
Building</a> Brown: Nelson Fitness Center and University Swim Center - for the fitness center to be completed in 2010
Faunce</a> House renovation to begin in summer 2009 - Campus News</p>

<p>Kristina, it sounds like you haven't been here before. Students here, for the most part, don't even have cars on campus. Parking is limited up here. I'm not sure how to respond to the Mercedes comment, that was just ridiculous. As far as how to compare the two schools why don't you read some of the other threads on this forum. Both schools are great obviously it just depends on which is a better fit for you not which one is marginally better in whatever way someone can cook up. However, you make take dcircles advice on the sciences.</p>