Help with the most difficult transfer decision? (being a "do-gooder" at Penn v Brown)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Brown University
1

Didn’t want to end up starting another one of these threads but I am having a really difficult time deciding. I ended up wanting to leave my previous school because of my strong interest in international/economic development and nonprofit work/ social enterprise management. The school didn’t have much coursework or programs available for either. Below, I’ve listed the pros and cons of Penn CAS and Brown, the schools I’ve been accepted to. Any extra input you guys could impart would be really helpful!

Brown
Pros:
-The open curriculum, pass/fail system, and generous drop system and the noncompetitive atmosphere that come out of it are everything I could want in an academic experience. I want to be able to explore college-level physics without killing my GPA. I want to be able to focus more on learning for the sake of learning despite knowing how GPA plays a role in my future. I am a self directed learner who is far more motivated and thrives when being able to make my own decisions.
-Stronger in development economics I believe. It has more development economists than Penn CAS’s econ department (although Penn has a few amazing people in this field too of course).
-Has it’s own development studies program that I’m interested in pursuing. All of the classes look amazing and I would be so excited to take them.
-I’m also interested in its Applied-Math econ program, which looks amazing, as well as its Public Policy program. I’m super excited to try classes in like all of these lol.
-Since I was accepted into the spring semester I could finish up a research project I had begun with a professor at my current school, or at least go farther with it
-I like a lot of the stereotypes I’ve heard about the vibe…despite being an ivy for instance, investment banking isn’t as popular or dominant amongst the student body as it is at its peer institutions. Finance is something I’ve expressed interest in myself for its potential application to development, but I never want to feel as if there is social pressure to go into it like I have heard there is at other schools
-Providence is a lovely place, as is RISD. I would love to take art classes there!
-Smaller size possibly means closer interaction with the professors, as well as the smaller graduate school population in proportion to undergrads

Cons:
-So many (admittedly somewhat similar) concentrations and classes there I want to explore, but I was accepted as an incoming Spring sophomore, giving me very little time to explore their courses before declaring a major.
-As a spring transfer I’m afraid of how adjusting socially will work out…unlike Penn, I don’t really know anyone there and there doesn’t seem to be as active of a transfer student organization. That being said, the few students I’ve managed to talk to who know of spring transfer students said they were well adjusted socially.
-It’s a very long drive from where I live
-Sometimes I fear that the laid-back may translate to laziness? People I know who go there claim most students there are hard working though.
-I was glad to hear from current students that the courses are challenging, but it seems to have a reputation as a “lazy ivy” because of its open curriculum and pass fail and drop policies. Its ranking is a bit lower because of this

Penn
Pros:
-Much closer to home and the demographics of the population seem much more like home.
-Larger alumni base and apparently higher ranked. Yes I know this should not be the be all and end all for my decision making, but it’s definitely something I’ve noticed
-The size has its benefits…I think the school would feel a bit closer to the real world because of the sheer diversity offered by its size. Theoretically, it would be much harder for me to not find a group I fit in with when there are this many people. This also counters negative stereotypes I may have heard about the student body, since really how can you generalize such a huge number of people?
-I can start in the Fall which may be more convenient
-It seems to have a larger and more active transfer community and more transfers period. They seem to take an active part in making sure transfers adjust and integrate into the community. I also have high school friends who go here already, so all this means I won’t be socially dead as a transfer.
-I could potentially pursue a dual major with Wharton, which would give me more practical skills and knowledge involved in social enterprise work or nonprofit finance work. Of course it’s no guarantee I’d make it, but based on what others have told me about the academic requirements I think I have a decent shot.
-It has an international development minor and its International relations major allows a focus in development…so even though opportunities to take classes in development are less than they would be at Brown, it’s still a substantial improvement to my old school and might be enough to satisfy me
-There are a LOT of preprofessional nonprofit consulting clubs that are actually really well run…definitely something I’m interested in.
-The campus is prettier than Brown’s and it’s near a bunch of delicious, cheap, food trucks.
-I hear students are super intense about not only their academics, but their extracurricular activities as well…just generally something I would love to see since I am the same way.

Cons:
-I might end up majoring in Econ at CAS (but very well may end up majoring in IR instead with a focus on development), and I hear a lot of them feel overshadowed by Wharton students and that even in just Econ CAS there’s a huge social pressure to get into the finance industry. I’ve heard a couple of negative comments about the professors
-I’m just not a fan of the curves I keep hearing about. Based on what friends from my high school told me, it’s still not too difficult to get A’s if you work hard, but it’s the principal of it that I disagree with…I feel like if a class has more intelligent students one year who have mastered the material, it makes sense for more of them to get A’s than if you had a class where more of the students didn’t try as hard
-Competitive environment may either drive me crazy or make me stronger…maybe both? It’s definitely something my high school should have gotten me used to by now.
-Class sizes seem larger on average than Brown’s
-Gen-eds…granted, it could be worse since its gen-eds are still kindof flexible, but it’s certainly no open curriculum
-Not a fan of Philly in general
-I’ve also heard that students are a lot more focused on how classes will look or add to their resumes than how their classes will add to their knowledge, help them grow as human beings, or satisfy their intellectual curiosity

I guess another thing that has made this decision difficult is that Penn is known for pre-professionalness and kids being sure of their career path or post-grad life while Brown is known for being more like an lac where a lot of kids are encouraged to explore and it’s considered more normal to not know what you want to do…I’m not sure exactly where I fall in this spectrum myself sometimes, but I’d wager that I’m just a little closer to wanting to explore and not knowing what I want for my future yet (even though I have some obvious ideas of interests I wish to pursue).

2

Making a decision in just a couple of days…no one from the Brown forum can offer further insight on this? :confused:

3

I started this when you first posted because I get annoyed with people repeating stereotypes, but just decided not to post. I thought Brown meets your needs a little better but you seem to have negative stereotypes that I don’t think are true but may color your satisfaction. Can’t have both, you will have to figure it out yourself.

The ranking is not a bit lower because of what you speculate. If you look at the criteria that is used it doesn’t have anything to do with that perception or the fact that there is S/Nc. (Not to mention that Brown apparently misreported some data last year. US News uses sat scores, returning freshman rate, grad rate, endowment, alumni giving and a bunch of other stuff.) Brown is intense, it is just relatively laid back as opposed to cutthroat, that is not the same as lazy. Students are pushing themselves hard from what I saw. Like they were in high school to get in in the first place they are highly motivated people with many interests engaged in many things. You are just completely off base with your assumption that there are any more lazy students at Brown than any peer school.

I know a student at Princeton who couldn’t risk taking a desired foreign language, for instance because they couldn’t risk the gpa. Where my dd took Mandarin and Russian S/Nc out of interest, was a math/cs major. You yourself want to take advantage of the opportunity to take physics without having to be hyper gpa aware, so do you consider yourself lazy I know my kid was not able to do all the things she wanted, so you won’t get to do everything you want but you will get to do quite a bit.

I hate to burst your bubble but their are lots of kids looking to premed and finance/banking at Brown. But I don’t know anything particularly about Penn. I don’t see a bad choice here of course, just making up your mind and going with it.

4

@BrownParent even though I posted this topic at 3pm, I wrote most of the post really late at night when I was a bit loopy from sleep deprivation. The allegations of laziness are more from other people who admittedly aren’t in a good position to judge. My mom outright told me she wanted me to pick Brown for example, because she thought it sounded “easier” than Penn. Brown was my top choice in high school, and I would have never even considered thinking of kids there as anything close to lazy back then. The reason I’ve even begun to think about that was because the school I’m transferring out of is considered “elite” with a vibe described as similar to Brown but I was taken aback by how common it was for kids to not put effort into their courses. Granted, Brown kids are probably harder working since it is harder to get into than that other school…my old school with a supposed similar vibe just left a bad taste in my mouth. I guess in the end I do agree it’s a more desirable environment…the perceived of difficulty in fitting in and making friends because of the reasons mentioned in my first post is probably the strongest thing keeping me from giving an immediate yes at this point.

And yeah, Brown is still an elite school in the end, where I know how common it is to pursue finance. When I said less pressure I only meant relative to its peer schools…and especially to Penn where I personally know both some current students and recent graduates who have all consistently agreed on the strong pressure to enter that field. I recently spoke to a couple of Brown students who suggested that the pressure is there but not as prominent because of its less preprofessional environment

5

Is money an issue? Will both schools cost the same?

Brown students aren’t lazy. Be careful about stereotypes. If Brown students aren’t lazy, then perhaps Penn students aren’t preprofessional. I’ll bet anything that there are lazy students at both Penn and Brown, that some Brown students are preprofessional, and that some Penn students are not preprofessional.

To me, the differences boil down to: Open curriculum vs. distribution requirements. Spring vs. fall semester. Size. Academics, as in the specifics of what you want to study.

The fall vs. spring semester seems significant to me – what will you do next fall if you go to Brown? Can you start in the spring as a first-semester sophomore? Consider both schools, imagine where you will be in September for each one – what is your gut reaction?

If you go to Penn – how many gen ed requirements will you have to take?

If you are transferring primarily because of academics, does one school clearly have better resources/classes/professors than the other in that field?

I don’t know enough about Penn, and I don’t know you at all, to help you out any more than that.

6

You are in a great position to be in. I applied to transfer from a school that is considered elite to some ivies such as Penn and Brown. I have always wanted to go to Penn but I got into Brown Fall which is a great school as well. Both schools are excellent institutions to attend. However, it seems to me that attending Penn will be an overall better experience than attending Brown in your case. The social scene is more lively and it is a larger institution. Plus, you will have more opportunities in the city of Philadelphia. Yes, Penn is more competitive and more cutthroat than Brown. However, given that you are in CAS, it doesn’t have to necessarily be that bad for you