Help with tricky situation?

Paying for College
61

I think you need to be very realistic about your chances of being acceoted to UNC as an out of state transfer…or to UVA or Michigan.

I also think both you and your sister need to drop the need for prestige. Your majors are offered at almost every college in the country. There are research opportunity at almost every college in the country. The reality is, you might actually get more opportunities at a less prestigious school…because you might actually be able to,stand out in a positive way,

There is a fine flagship university in Florida…that is also a research institution. It would cost you a fraction of the OOS costs at UVM.

Now for the money. If your parents GROSS income is $60,000 a year, and they are self employed…they would need to pay federal income taxes, and both the employer and employee FICA bills. That would,eat up a large chunk of that $60,000. They also have living expenses…either a mortgage or rent (right?), utilities, food, clothing, health insurance for all of you.

I can’t believe there is $24,000 left for them to pay your college bills.

Were you eligible for Bright Futures? Or not? If so, why didn’t you take that opportunity? If not, what makes you think you will get accepted to UVA, UNC or Michigan?

62

@twoinanddone Is the prestige of FSU really higher than UVM? Because I know my mom prefers UF, I just don’t think she likes FSU just in case I can’t get into UF
For this semester my mom sold one or two houses or something, and I think now they’re trying to save what they can for next time. But yeah, we’re all unsure of where the future money will come from.
It’s not worth 24k for me to live in Vermont and we know that. So far the only options are in-state schools, top publics, and Vanderbilt bc Idk of any others that would possibly meet need…
Are there really dozens? We only have heard of UF and Miami in the top 100 and I know about FSU.
My mom even told my sister not to apply to Miami, she just doesn’t like the atmosphere or something. Again she just won’t support it.

@thumper1 I’m really only somewhat assured about UMich because I know they value legacy. I kind of don’t care too much about going to a top-ranked school myself though, if I don’t go it will just bother my mom. She actually told me today that if I went to UMich her dreams will come true because she will have both kids in a good school, it’s a really big thing for her
We know my sister is going to stay at UMich because she’s almost done and she worked hard to transfer, it’s just my situation that needs “fixing” right now.
We’re considering UF for sure. Just not sure about any others
Yes we have a mortgage, plus all the books, food, insurance, etc.
Yep this is a really bad situation and my mom knew it. But she didn’t want me going to that ranked-500 school. Honestly because she knew it would be harder to transfer out of there into a better one rather than transferring out of Vermont (with good grades ofc)
I’m not eligible for bright futures. I would have to do 100 hours of community service and I couldn’t do that before graduating HS. Also I’m not sure but I think my gpa was too low.
Like I mentioned above, if I work hard I think because of legacy UMich will consider me. I really don’t know about the others though

63

Right now I’m considering applying to UMich for next year but they will have to consider my HS gpa…
So if I don’t apply I will do another year at UVM and then apply to UMich plus FL schools and maybe UNC, UVA, etc.
But that means one more year of UVM payments.
Are there any good resources for national scholarships out there? Because again I couldn’t find any for my demographic really.

64

The #1source of scholarships is the college itself. Then the federal government. Then the state, if you’re attending a public university in your state (some states don’t have qualifiers - Bright Futures has very high parameters to award state aid. :s)

You already got amazing financial aid from UVermont. But 30K for a 60K income is completely crazy. Your parents would probably stretch to have you pay more than 10K. So something doesn’t add up if they took on 5K in Parent PLUS loans and can pay everything - my guess is that the rental income is not included in the 60K, and that UVermont doesn’t realize your parents may well make more than what they said they did (the fact you got SEOG and Perkins would point to that.)

Do you work? If not, take a job on campus or off campus and earn money to offset costs.

In short, you need to transfer to a college where you can get sufficient financial aid. And transfers always get lousy aid unless they have something exceptional which the college wants (that’s what happened with your sister).
Your odds at UMich are basically zero, even with legacy. Last year, only 1% admitted students had less than a 3.0 in HS and you can bet your bottom dollar that those were highly sought-after athletes. To give you perspective, the BOTTOM admitted students had a score in the 1880s-1920s.
With your SAT/GPA in HS + good record in college, you may be able to get some scholarships at some colleges but you can’t get a full tuition scholarship anywhere.
Forget your mother’s focus on prestige and rankings, and general lack of knowledge (Nova and UMiami have very litle in common, and only one of those would be considered “highly ranked”). Instead, focus on getting into colleges, then work on proving to your mother why those colleges are better (higher ranked overall, for your subject, for specific projects…) than UVM.
You’ll need to apply widely.
First, near UVM, you have a “hidden gem”, St Michael’s college. Go visit, express interest, and apply.
Second, apply by February 1st to some lower-cost state flagships such as UMN-Twin Cities and UAlabama that may have scholarships for transfers with a good college GPA.
Third, apply to good colleges where your odds aren’t bad, such as Appalachian State and UNC-Wilmington (one is in the mountains, the other is by the beach - and both have class profile’s stats similar to Rutgers’, the NJ flagship), perhaps Truman State or St Mary’s of Maryland or SUNY Geneseo, plus Temple, Hendrix, Wheaton (MA), Muhlenberg, Lawrence (it’s excellent for physics), Beloit, Earlham, Gustavus Adolphus, Southwestern, Trinity (TX), Drake, Concordia-Moorhead, John Carroll.
Fourth, apply to FSU (it’s a high reach for you though), USF, FAU, UNF, Eckerd, Rollins, Stetson.

65

I think you need to apply to some FL schools as well NOW. What about UCF? or maybe USF or FIA or FAU?

66

I think your sister needs to graduate on time, she might need to major in physics and minor in math or something, but your family can’t afford for her to do a fifth year. If you can’t afford the last year she will end up without a degree.

The same goes for you, if you plan on double majoring in chem and physics.

Where do you think your sister is going to get a big enough scholarship from?

Most major scholarships, institutional or national are for college freshmen. Upperclass students get maybe small ones from the science department of their school, but not enough for what she needs.

Most schools will not offer much for transfer students. Temple will give a few thousand but OOS costs are $40k.

If you went instate the tuition would be much lower.

This is not about preference anymore, it is a financial necessity.

67

I was also wondering about the rental income and asset. You got almost a full Pell grant and SEOG.
The FAFSA is your finaid application, you sign it and one parent signs it and affirms that it is complete and correct.

So you need to know what’s on there.

68

@MYOS1634 Sometimes my mom goes to the casino and wins money, so on occasion that has actually paid the bills. Yeah, it’s pretty bad but that’s how things work financially with my family.
What is a good resource for federal scholarships?
I plan to work, yeah. Do you also mean work outside of work-study?
I know my sister just got need-based aid though, not merit. But like someone pointed out yeah, I guess getting in is its own merit qualifier sort of
Thanks for the suggestions. I don’t think we will really consider schools outside of FL though except maybe Alabama (Idk my mom’s opinion on it but my sister says they have good out of state aid). But like St. Michael’s though, I mean I have no reason to stay in Vermont and the name’s even less known than UVM so with all the FL schools Idk if it will make the list really.
Also should I apply to those schools this year even with my HS gpa? I was considering waiting a year bc of that but again the money concern
I’m guessing all of those schools offer good financial aid though? Like Appalachian state etc.
Thanks for the FL recommendations too. Why is FSU a reach though?
It’s weird because my mom thinks so lowly of it but if it’s actually a reach, wow. Her expectations are unrealistic

@mom2collegekids Isn’t my HS gpa really low though? I wanted to wait a year so my college grades will be more considered

@mommdc She talked to multiple advisors about graduating on time, but apparently UMich has a lot of required humanities and stuff etc. so graduating on time would force her to take 18 credits every semester, and she also wants to do research during the year. She said it might also just be an extra semester instead of a year… But yeah I’ll tell her and see what she says
Again where can I look up stuff about national scholarships? Aren’t there national contests or something that will fund a bit of undergrad stuff? Even if they’re competitive, I just want to see which ones are possible for my demographic
Also I will ask my mom. Idek if it’s a rental or anything or what my mom puts on there actually, maybe there’s some stuff I don’t know about so I will ask
I really have no involvement in financial stuff whatsoever which is what makes this hard, because my parents want to take care of everything

69

I think you are looking down on schools like FSU and UCF that you may not even get accepted to. With a college gpa of 3.8, yes, you may now get in. You admit your HS gpa and scores were not high, yet you expect schools to give you a 100% scholarship. That is not going to happen. You are looking for outside scholarships but most of those are for freshman (Gates, Coke, Elks). You don’t have a good chance at anything like those anymore. You don’t have a chance at schools that meet all financial need like Harvard or Princeton because they don’t take many transfers.

Don’t look at what you could have done, but where you are now. Are you going to get into UVa or Michigan? Very unlikely but you won’t know if you don’t apply to transfer. Michigan might consider legacies, but it is not that big of a hook. Do you realize how many legacies there are to Michigan? They can’t let them all in, and I’d bet most of their transfers come from instate schools. Your sister was very lucky.

Yes, there are dozens of colleges in Florida that have more name recognition (especially IN Florida, to people IN Florida) than UVM. UF, FSU, and UMiami are the biggest names, but look at ALL the schools, public and private. So you didn’t get into New College, did you even try any of the other state schools? UCF has 50,000 students and more than a few of them major in physics and chemistry. Want close to Miami? Try Barry or Lynn or FIU. Want small and private? Embry Riddle or Flagler or Rollins for more merit aid. Can you now transfer to New College?

We are all just looking at the $25k-$30k you are talking about for the first two years and thinking you’ll have nothing left and be in big debt before you transfer anywhere.

70

I don’t know of any national scholarships for students other than students just graduating from high school.

U Alabama has great merit aid for high stats students who go there as freshmen. I don’t think they give much in way of transfer scholarships except for community college students from Alabama. Even then it would not be enough to offset OOS cost.

Your best bet is a Florida school you can afford.

71

And yes, the prestige to most people IN FLORIDA of FSU, UMiami, and UF are similar. My kids were in high school in northern Florida and very few kids went to UMiami, but an equal number at the top of the class went to UF, FSU and UCF. All three were considered, by the kids, to be equals. I didn’t really understand why anyone would pick UCF, but the kids like it. One of my daughter’s friends attends UCF and just loves it. She had a lot of choices, money wasn’t an issue, but she loves UCF. My nephew went to high school near Tampa, and no one from his school went to FSU (too close to home? don’t know, but it was a despised school in his area), he was very thrilled to be accepted to UCF and U of South Florida in Tampa, but he chose UF - over Brown, Cornell, NYU, Colorado, UMass and a few others. He thought UF gave him the best education for the price. The only school he would have picked over UF was Stanford, and he wasn’t accepted there.

You have to deal in your reality, not what your mother thinks should have happened (free ride at Harvard). You didn’t have the grades for a free ride. You don’t have the money for some other schools. Look at what you can make happen.

72

http://www.academic-guide.fsu.edu/physics.htm

info about FSU physics program and contact info about transfer questions.

73

@twoinanddone I guess not 100% scholarship but like what my parents pay for UMich with my sister or cheaper
I realize that’s possible with FL schools because of in-state tuition. But yeah it doesn’t have to be completely covered I guess. UVM was just an accident because I didn’t apply to enough places my senior year of HS
FIU was actually that 500-ranked school my mom didn’t want me to go to. It’s definitely not an option lol
Anything away from home would actually be better. I’ll consider New College again I guess.

The thing is I think my mom would rather take out more loans to keep a bit of prestige than send me to an in-state school she doesn’t like. She’s only interested in national prestige not in-state prestige. I myself would rather not stay in-state but it looks like if I care about my family I have to. It’s just so weird when I’m trying to help but my mom thinks I’m hurting her considering somewhere like UCF.

74

FSU’s stats are 3.8-4.4 for the middle range. It means the BOTTOM 25% students admitted to FSU had a 3.8 WGPA. The middle range test scores are 27-30, meaning that a quarter had more than 30 on their ACT and only a quarter had less than 27. The bottom individual score is 580 so your SAT score would place you in the bottom of possible admits… which would make it a reach even if you had a 4.0… which you don’t. Hence, a high reach.

Where do you want to work? If in Florida or in the South, pick a FL college. If in the Northeast, look there too but don’t discount the FL system.
St Michael’s is actually pretty good and similarly ranked as UVermont. Your college GPA and demonstrated interest may indeed make you an interesting prospect to them, hard to know.

Worrying about a college being “well-known” is pointless. You yourself admitted your mother had never heard of Pomona or Haverford or other top schools, so unless you mean “whose football/basketball team is known in Florida”, you don’t need to restrict your choices with this criterion. To be blunt, show your mother the USNWR rankings and prove to her that UVermont is a Top 100 college, and the schools you got into also are, and may even be higher ranked.
Look for colleges that will admit a student with a 2.7 GPA and 1640 SAT (those are your stats, right? Or did I read that wrong?), slightly offset by a strong college GPA, AND will provide him with scholarship.

I second Flagler.

Some FL colleges may consider you a freshman with college credit (ie., not a transfer), so you could take the January SAT and present that score, thus improving your prospects. LOOK INTO IT NOW.

You could look NOW for colleges that take Spring transfers. Most state universities do. This way, you could apply in September for Spring 2017, and have two semesters’ worth of college grades (+, if you’re savvy, 2 courses taken at FL community colleges that can transfer to UVT, hence saving money - but in order to do that you’ll need to check with your adviser).

There are no federal scholarships that you don’t already have. In fact, you have pretty much maxed out federal grants and loans (which typically go to students whose families make much less than your family, so you can understand why we’re wondering what exactly your family filed for FAFSA. Please check it out.)

Your sister may get scholarships if she’s a top student in STEM, but she should plan on taking summer courses alongside doing summer research in order to make her 5th “year” into a semester.

ETA: I see that you mother won’t let you apply to FIU or other universities where you have a shot of admission. So, you’re really stuck.
Except… if she’d rather have you attend college outside of Florida so that she can keep some self image or for boasting to her friends, you need to find a cheap OOS college that you can “boost” in words so that she can boast about it. Would she have geographical restrictions too?(ie., you said she wouldn’t accept Mizzou, because it’s Missouri.)

Use these lists:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public/page+2
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities/top-public
UVermont ranks 37, ex-aequo with quite a few universities, and FSU is basically at the same level. Look at the 20 universities before UVermont and the 10 that follow, then the top 5 regional universities above. All are big public universities.
Also, at most LACs, being a boy actually gives you a boost, as does applying from 400+ miles (ie., awayfrom FL).

NCF stats: 3.96-4.44 WGPA, 27-32 ACT (and 29-34 on English +Reading).

75

Did either you or your sister get any portion of the Pell Grant this year? With n income of $60,000 a year, and two in college at the same time, I would think you would he each gotten a teeny bit of Pell money. Did you?

Still…the schools you are looking at are costly…and you have no way to fund them right now. I’m not sure Michigan meets full need for OOS transfer students. You need to check that too. Your sister may have gotten lucky.

And by your own admission, your sister had much better stats than you have when applying.

You need to be realistic. Very realistic. You need to look at affordable colleges where you will actually get acceoted. It’s nice to think about schools in the top 50 or so…but realistically, you do not have the credentials to get accepted at these schools.

76

@MYOS1634 In terms of work I don’t want to stay in FL after college. I would also prefer grad school to be outside FL.
I could retake the SAT I guess.
And yup, I’m stuck. My sister kept telling my mom to save money by choosing FIU over UVM for me but prestige and me leaving home was too important to my mom. It’s also mostly because my sister’s previous school before transferring was closeby and it was overall a really bad situation at home with my mom always complaining about her not being at a good school and stuff, so my mom didn’t want to have to go through all that again.
Yeah my mom does have restrictions on stuff like I think she would just laugh at me going to Alabama or something just because of the name. I mean like I said she questioned my sister about Michigan until she saw it on a few rankings and on TV or something, or found out about Madonna’s daughter lol. Really arbitrary bragworthy stuff tbh
Do LACS give good financial aid?
I think the best thing to do is get a list of good finaid schools and then from there choose what my mom is ok with.

@thumper1 I posted my school bill on a previous post. I think we’re both getting pell grant yeah
I’m thinking if I do happen to get into Mich that I’ll get the same money that my sister did, right? Because it depends on family situation and ours is the same
And yeah I know. I honestly don’t really care about the top 50 or whatever but it’s like a pride thing for my mom, Idek

77

@thumper1, Based on post #53, it looks like OP got a $5624/year Pell grant and an $1800/year SEOG grant.

The schools you attend might make a difference. Our family makes less than $60k/year and has no assets other than our primary residence, but our son only gets a few hundred dollars of Pell money/year. His school is much cheaper than yours, though, so that might account for the difference. If your sister’s school is less expensive than the one you’re currently attending, you may end up with less federal grant money than you got this year. Is tuition the same for sophomores and seniors? If upperclassmen pay more, than they may get a little more aid.

78

Well…getting accepted to Michigan is the first hurdle. Also keep in mind that once she graduates from undergrad school, your family contribution will likely almost double.

And that Pell Grant will likely disappear altogether.

@austinmshauri I believe Michigan charges more for upperclassmen than freshmen. UVM just charges a lot for everyone!

79

@austinmshauri By different schools do you mean different colleges in the same university?
I mean if we’re both students at UMich LSA then we’ll have the same bill I think but yeah I guess plus/minus the upperclassman thing
From what I just looked up it says UMich total cost of attendance is $57k while vermont is $52k so it would be more expensive but still arpund the same (Idk if the numbers are accurate or if it changes etc)

@thumper1 Yeah Idk if I’ll get in but I know for sure I will try. And yeah I think someone brought that up in this thread, I didn’t think of that so I’m looking into in-state schools too

80

Attending college for another yr will not negate your requirement of submitting your test scores and high school transcripts to UMich. Based on your description of your high school record, it sounds like gaining admission is a huge obstacle. You are more likely to gain admission to a FL school after 2 yrs (you could transfer to a CC and transfer exactly the same as from UVM but save $10s of thousands).