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Parents Forum
1

<p>I was advised by cangel to post my thread from the Chances forum here (the thread can be found here <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=73824%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=73824&lt;/a> which has a more extensive description)</p>

<p>Organizations</p>

<p>Science Olympiad (since 7th, regional & state medals)
Senior Class President
School choir (since 9th, we sing yearly at various places)
School Paper (since 10th)
FBLA (since 10th - the earliest we can join)</p>

<p>Sports (good but not college material)</p>

<p>Track and Field (since 7th, Varsity Letters)
Cross Country (8th, 9th, 11th, 12th, couldn't form teams in other years, Varsity Letters)</p>

<p>Employment</p>

<p>Pizza company (Employee since 2002)</p>

<p>Community Service</p>

<p>Recycling @ Work (R@W) <a href="http://www.geocities.com/recyclingatwork%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.geocities.com/recyclingatwork&lt;/a> (site not done, program's still continuing)
- Created/organized program in 2004 to raise funds for local library and awareness of the need to conserve our resources
- Established an online shop with personalized items
- Have received help and support from the media including from local newspapers, TV stations, and radio stations
Jr. Leadership Wilkes Barre
- Organized “The Rockin’ Red Cross Lock-In” with a few members & raised ~ $2000 for the Red Cross’s HIV/AIDS education program
- Role as public relations person
Red Cross
- Began last summer
- The President’s Volunteer Service Award</p>

<p>Misc.</p>

<p>Supporting Family in Vietnam
- Have been sending $200 earned from job to Vietnam every 3-4 months to support grandparents, uncles, aunts, and cousins still living in Vietnam
Upward Bound
- Have been taking weekly classes since 2004 & will continue until graduation
- Will be taking college-credited classes during summer of 2006
- Attended 2004 Upward Bound Summer Program
Pennsylvania Poetry Society’s Pegasus
- Received 2 honorable mentions in 2003
Wyoming Valley Poetry Society
- Received 2nd place in spring of 2003
Jr. & Sr. National Honor Society (since 7th)
Will attend Pennsylvania’s Governor School of Health Care in a few days!<br>
- Organizing Bridging the Gap: Hepatitis C to offer free Hep C testing and other services <a href="http://www.geocities.com/bridgingthegaphc%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.geocities.com/bridgingthegaphc&lt;/a> (not done)
Bausch and Lomb Award</p>

<p>First generation immigrant
First generation college
Southeast Asian </p>

<p>2 APs available, took AP Hist., can't take AP Physics b/c of schedule conflicts
Took all Adv. Classes available
Rank - 1/150-160 (maybe 250) somethingish
Old SAT M 730, V 740; New SAT M 620, V 700, W 800
SAT II Writing (before New SAT) 750, U.S. History 760, Chem 720, IIc 650
Most colleges only require two SAT IIs with the new sat, and 3 with old but one of them has to Writing so i thought the IIc score shouldn't hurt me since i already have 2 other SATIIs </p>

<p>I know my scores dropped from old to new but I had other things going on at the time, i'll be taking the new one again and hopefully bringing it back to original/higher, most colleges will mix and match so hopefully that won't be a major problem (this is the case for upenn so technically i have 2270)</p>

<p>I'm a senior-to-be, and confused as to what my safeties, matches, reaches are for EA/ED and Regular Admission....i've been looking over some materials for upenn, other ivys, jhu....any chance? EA/ED?</p>

<p>Sorry cangel, I tried shortening that but I'm not sure what you mean and at the moment i have limited internet availability as i'm away from home. My parents send money back to Vietnam every 3-4 months but because they are also supporting my bro in college, i had begun helping them with the aid to our families in Vietnam. </p>

<p>As to what kind of school, it personally does not matter to me because i can easily adapt to different surroundings. However, i would prefer small cities like Brown or large towns like Cornell & Dartmouth. I was at upenn today and i found the campus and the area to be amazing even though Philly is a big city. Transportation isn't much of an issue as long as it's not across the country.</p>

<p>I know that ED is binding but you can also refuse the offer as long as it's something reasonable such as not enough financial aid to allow you to attend the university. As i had posted in the other thread, i thought the Ivys meet 100% aid whether it's through grants or work-study, etc. The reason i am not asking my GC about this is because she doesn't really know much about it. She had told my friend who's ranked second that she will not be able to handle pharmacy in college because her (GC) husband couldn't do it so nobody can, and told the seniors the FAFSA was due a month after it was actually due.</p>

<p>Any guesses as of my chances and such would be helpful.</p>

2

<p>Your obvious hook is your family that you support back in Viet Nam. The bridge between two worlds. </p>

<p>Since financial aid is going to be such a big issue for you, I would urge you to think very, very carefully before you apply ED to anywhere (EA or SCEA could be fine.) While a school may offer you a package THEY deem reasonable, you might not see it is a reasonable, and you may at least want the opportunity to compare (and also to ratchet up offers from various schools when they drop the "need-blind" ruse and actually go after candidates.) There is nothing in what you've written thus far that would indicate to a school that you wouldn't also be around in the RD round, and since you're not paying full-freight or quarterbacking the football team, I can't see what particular advantage would accrue to the school from admitting you ED. Under such circumstances, there is no existing evidence that I know of suggesting that ED will provide anything in the way of a boost.</p>

<p>Be that as it may, find some safeties that you LOVE, and work from there. None of the schools you named are safeties, and with hundreds of fine colleges and universities out there, there must be a good safety for you (or were you thinking Penn State? Honors program there is said to be excellent, and I have heard of at least two folks who turned down Ivies for it.)</p>

3

<p>Icyhot:</p>

<p>I think you will be a very attractive applicant to many excellent schools. Ranked 1st in your class, Upward Bound, first generation immigrant, working during high school, supporting family in VietNam, good test scores. That is a very strong package.</p>

<p>I'm not going to recommend specific schools, but more an approach to see what you like -- types of schools that you can visit right in Phila.</p>

<p>You've seen UPenn, which is a great example of a large private urban university.</p>

<p>I would also hop on the R3/Media train and ride out to Swarthmore (about 11 miles SW of downtown Philly). The train station is right in middle of campus. A great example of an excellent small undergrad college. About the same difficulty of admissions as UPenn (maybe a bit harder), but I think they'd look favorably on your app. Very large Asian-American enrollment. It's the kind of place that would probably be pretty comfortable for you. Tough academics.</p>

<p>Another is NW of Philly -- Haverford. Similar kind of school. Not as much diversity, probably a little more laid back. In the same neck of the woods is Bryn Mawr, similar kind of school in an "all-girls" format (I didn't see where you said).</p>

<p>You could visit any of these schools in an afternoon. Call ahead, take a tour and see what you think. Post what you did or didn't like and we can go from there in terms of additional kinds of schools, safeties, etc. The goal at this point is not so much to focus on specific schools, but types of schools.</p>

4

<p>"and since you're not paying full-freight or quarterbacking the football team, I can't"
Thank you for the advice above, but from what you said it sounds like you're saying ED is used to admit all-star athletes and rich kids. Since when was this the case? </p>

<p>"There is nothing in what you've written thus far that would indicate to a school that you wouldn't also be around in the RD round"
Sorry i'm not sure what you mean by that</p>

<p>Interesteddad, thanks for the advice but i'm only in Philly tonight and heading to NY tomorrow for a bday and then to Governor School so i won't be able to visit any other colleges.</p>

<p>Edited...I've also read in some of the applications that ED DOES give you a little bit more edge than RD does b/c it shows a commitment to the college etc....it said it right in the application package</p>

5

<p>"and since you're not paying full-freight or quarterbacking the football team, I can't"
"Thank you for the advice above, but from what you said it sounds like you're saying ED is used to admit all-star athletes and rich kids. Since when was this the case?"</p>

<p>Since forever. It is what gives them the freedom to pursue other types of candidates in the RD round without overspending their financial aid budget, and ensuring they lock down the athletes they need to make the program go.</p>

<p>"There is nothing in what you've written thus far that would indicate to a school that you wouldn't also be around in the RD round"
Sorry i'm not sure what you mean by that.</p>

<p>You are a great candidate, among other great candidates. So they would have the luxury of deferring you until later, to compare you with the total sum of applicants that come in.</p>

<p>"Edited...I've also read in some of the applications that ED DOES give you a little bit more edge than RD does b/c it shows a commitment to the college etc....it said it right in the application package"</p>

<p>It means that a legacy who does not apply ED might be suspect. ;)</p>

<p>Lots of GREAT colleges out there. Just make sure you have a safety you LOVE.</p>

6

<p>Icyhot
I hope someone familiar with Pennsylvania schools will post some ideas of matches and safeties.
Mini's points are what I wanted you to hear. It is a little more complicated to get out of ED than you think. Some schools will only let you out to go to a state school - positive evidence of real hardship. Many schools will rescind your admission and at least threaten to "blackball" you if they get wind of you applying to other schools RD. ED is binding, and because it is binding, is theoretically a bad choice for someone needing financial aid - if they know you have to come, why do they have to offer you their "best deal". An example of a situation that would get you released from ED without prejudice would be a parent being diagnosed with a severe illness between application and spring.
EA,though is not binding.</p>

7

<p>To be honest, I've never read anything of schools actually "blackball"ing you, but thanks a lot mini & cangel for clearing up the ED issue.</p>

8

<p>I would seriously look into Penn state's Schreyer's Honor's if you are looking for an in state safety-match. Isolated, but a well equipped small college town to cater to your needs. Excellent repuation,excellent advising.One of those honor'sprograms that "shrinks down" the large state U.Research opportunities,new dedicated honor's dorms (right across the street from town shopping!).
Question:Isn't college counseling part of the Upward Bound program? If the component is there, take full advantage .</p>

9

<p>Cathymee, yes it is but it's the summer and i wasn't sure if the office would be open but now tomorrow they're starting the summer program so i know they will be open but i will be in Gov. School</p>

<p>Mini, Cangel, or anyone else, since you seem to know very much about ED, could you tell me what's the difference/purpose between EA/SCEA and RD other than the dates?</p>

10

<p>There can be some variations in rules schools have about what other schools, if any, you can apply to under the various options. But this is a basic summary:</p>

<p>ED=Early Decision. Is binding. You can apply only to one school and MUST attend if accepted. You mentioned an "out" based on financial aid, but as others have indicated, you and the school might not agree about that; not all schools have that out; and they can, in fact, communicate to other schools that you have failed to honor your ED. Some applicants have found all acceptances rescinded based on this.
ED does not seem like it is appropriate for you.</p>

<p>EA=Early Action. Usually this is quite unrestricted. You apply early and get an early response, but you are not bound to attend and do not have to reply until the general RD response date (usually 5/1). You can apply to as many such schools as you want and wait until all EA/RD and financial aid awards are in to make your decision.</p>

<p>Rolling=the school reviews applications as they are received and responds usually within a few weeks to each application, sometimes in a matter of days. Also not binding or restricted, as with EA.</p>

<p>EA/rolling are an excellent choice, much recommended by all on cc. Gives you the comfort of having acceptance(s) in hand, allowing you to narrow the number of schools you apply to, using RD only for any you think you might like better than what you already have.</p>

<p>SCEA=Single Choice Early Action. Relatively new,not yet common. Stanford, Harvard, Princeton (I believe) known for this option. Not binding, BUT you can only apply to one early school. Cannot combine with any other ED. Have to read each school's rules with a fine tooth comb to see if you can apply non-binding EA to any other schools. You get your answer early but can wait until your RD results are in as well as your financial aid awards to compare/negotiate choose.</p>

11

<p>How much does UPenn usually give to ED applicants? I understand that they can give me a crappy package since they know i'm binded, but won't they still base the aid package on the FAFSA, EFC, etc? My family makes about $50,000/year and my brother will be entering his senior year at college this year also. The profile of UPenn on Collegeboard says that the university meets 100% aid so then wouldn't it have to do that if my EFC is low? It's here where it gets fuzzy for me, i don't know if they will meet the 100% aid through work-study, loans, grants etc. How does that usually work?</p>

12

<p>Remember, Icyhot, we are telling you worst case, any given school may offer a very acceptable ED package - epople have posted on this forum that they have gotten great FA after an ED admit - or the school may not. What you have given up is your opportunity to see how much money some other school will give you.</p>

<p>It is my opinion, OPINION, that your chances of getting an acceptable ED package are better with the need-based, meets 100% of need schools, they are the most likely to offer a similar package regardless of when you apply. But, for example, you might get a higher percentage of loans in ED vs RD, or one school may calculate your family's EFC a little differently than another. If your income is $50K, and parents are coming off 4 years of college for a brother, the EFC will be low at a place like Penn, but your family's ability to pay will be lower, too.</p>

13

<p>Can't answer most of your questions -- so many others more qualified! Just wanted to share that when Penn figured our EFC (S just graduated from there), it came out somewhat higher than what FAFSA said. In other words, Penn said we could afford to pay MORE than what FAFSA figured. Their EFC was the highest of any of the schools S applied to. However, they gave him grants and work study for the rest (100% of need, based on THEIR figures), rather than loans, and ended up being the best "bargain" among the private schools S applied to.</p>

14

<p>Icyhot,</p>

<p>I haven't seen the answer to your question, but it has to be asked? Are you a U.S. Citizen or permanent resident?</p>

<p>If not, please be aware that </p>

<ol>
<li><p>You will be considered an international student and will be evaluated with the international pool of candidates during the admissions process. There will be a lot of candidates for very few slots in an already competitive process.</p></li>
<li><p>Very few schools are need blind to international students so even applying ED, your ability to pay will factor in the admissions process.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>From Penn's Financial aid:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/aid.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/aid.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>*If you are a Non-Citizen
The University is able to offer financial assistance to very few students who are not citizens or permanent residents of the U.S., Canada or Mexico. Therefore, most non-citizens should plan to meet expenses for their entire schooling before applying for admission. Because the offer of admission for non-citizens is directly linked to their ability to meet these expenses, candidates who can pay for their schooling are urged not to apply for Penn-sponsored assistance. *</p>

<p>If you are an international student and you have already stated that money is an issue, you willhave to make a real concerted effort to seek schools that are both need blind and meet 100% of of the demonstrated need to international students.</p>

<p>Even if you are a citizen or permanent resident you must also remember that meeting 100% demonstrated need means different things to different schools. As Mini stated, the *school * determines how much your family can afford to pay. While they will think that it is commendable that you send money back to Vietnam, that money will also be calucated into yours and your Family's EFC. A typical financial aid package will
consists of </p>

<p>Work study
Loans ( Perkins, and Unsubsidized Stafford Loan)
Grant /scholarship</p>

<p>If your family is not able to meet the EFC, then they may have to take out a PLUS (parents loan).</p>

<p>While Penn meets 100% of your demonstrated need, an overwhelming number of schools do not. Schools that do not meet 100% demonstrated need (gap) leave it to you to find a way to fill the gap. In addtion, a school can give you all loan aid while still meeting 100% of your demonstrated need.</p>

<p>Before you do anything, I would suggest that you definitely become well versed with the financial aid policies at any school which you are considering.</p>

15

<p>Hi, sorry for the late reply, i'm at Gov. School so it's a bit hard for me to find an available computer. I value everyone who has offered his/her advice and I've decided to apply EA at another school, and apply RD at UPenn. I emailed UPenn a few days ago before you guys had replied, and to be honest, they were pretty (purposely no doubt) vague in answering my question and simply said they will meet 100% aid that THEY determine. Thanks again.</p>