Here is what I have learned...

Parents Forum
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<p>I could be wrong, (so what do I know, just a parent) but I think Princeton was looking for out-of-the-box candidates and ilcapo fit that category very neatly this year. Here is what I think got him in:
1) He is very artistic and has a wonderful portfolio of photographs. I truely think he can be an award-winning photographer. If you have looked at his protest photos, you would see what I mean.
2) His protest essay outlined his involvement in photography and protests in NYC.
3) He has an outstanding record with the Congressman's office in Veteran's affairs. The extra reco from the congressman could have pushed him over the top. He helped disabled veterans get their VA benefits and went out of the way to do that.
4) The Congressional intern essay outlined that work.
5) His mail essay was creative; again, reinforcing his creativity and artistic talents.
6) He can do the work in the Humanities; he has taken college-level courses and loves to do that. He has a portfolio of classes outside the typical HS classroom.</p>

<p>So I think if I were an adcom for Princeton, I would look at the totality of his application and admit him. He put together a coherent application which said a few things about him.</p>

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<p>And if I were a candidate for college again, I would look at that record and the direction he took and try to emulate that on my own.
1) Find out who you are and what you are good at. 2 or 3 things. This is advice taken from Interesteddad in other posts.
2) Put together a coherent application that focuses on these 2 or 3 things.
3) If you are marginal in terms of grades, focus on proving to them that you can do the work.
4) Be very enthusiastic about your college; focus on why you want to go there. And put together a 'Why college x' essay based on your research.</p>

<p>Now, I gotta get back to work (not a 17-year old, have to pay by bills).</p>

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<p>ilcapo235:
Breaking the rules works--more often than many people think. BUT there is a downside.</p>

<p>Some background: My daughters were home schooled ( a rule breaker if ever there was one!) and broke nearly every "rule" in applying to college. They wrote many long essays (with illustrations no less), submitted 7 recommendations, made many personal college contacts, wrote cover letters, and had no AP's, EC's or grades. I think that flies in the face of most people's idea of how one should play by the rules of getting into college. :)</p>

<p>Yes, both girls got accepted ED to the top school of their choice. (The oldest is about to graduate...already!)</p>

<p>Here's the downside: Regardless of how they think of themselves, many (if not most) of the people on CC follow the rules. They just do NOT want to hear about your success in flaunting the rules. That is my experience ilcapo, and I believe you will find it to be true for yourself.</p>

<hr>

<p>I spent an afternoon at Princeton (30+ years ago.) Strangely, the thing that left the most lasting impression on me was a huge, magnificent weeping beech tree. I hope it is still there---and that you enjoy it and everything else on campus.</p>

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<p>So, if what you (Achat) say is true, Ilcapo's own analysis is way off the mark.</p>

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<p>Morgantruce, I am a rule follower, no doubt - but please listen to this. The danger of students hearing how Ilcapo "flaunted the rules" is that the "ordinary" applicant will get idea that they can flaunt the rules,too. IlCapo is quite talented young man (I've always assumed;)), both artistically and in writing, passionate about his liberal convictions. We don't know exactly why Princeton accepted him, heck, we don't really know that he is entirely telling the truth or presenting his situation accurately (I think he is, by the way, there have been too many opportunities to trip himself up, but I don't KNOW that about anything posted online). The chances of another person going so very far against common sense (for example, if you are applying to MIT, and you aren't the greatest writer in the world, 1000 words on the fall of Communism may not be your best ticket in) and prevailing are small. The "truth" that he learned applies to himself, pieces of it could apply to anyone, but I think the whole of it is unique for Ilcapo.</p>

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<p>Perhaps the most unique thing about Ilcapo, however, is that after starting 2 threads in the last 2 weeks for which he got "reprimanded" (remember the thread about his friend's recommendation..) for questionable judgement, etc..he still came back for more.</p>

<p>Reading his post about his mother's and his illness makes me wonder if he was just trying to distract himself/keep busy- but wasn't really being as thoughtful or careful as he might have been. I am trying to put a positive spin on this, as you can see.</p>

<p>AS for his recommendations and observations, I am sure there are inumerable kids every year who buck conventional wisdom and do quite well...but there has to be quite a hook.</p>

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<p>Morgan... your daughters are the exception that proves the rule! By homeschooling, your kids needed to violate every other dictum in order to put together an application which adequately demonstrated the range and depth of their ability.</p>

<p>Do you honestly think that a 1450, A average kid from Great Neck High School is getting in to Yale with 7 recommendations, no AP's, and no EC's???</p>

<p>I think it's great that Ilcapo got into Princeton. I think it heaps salt on the wounds of the thousands of kids who didn't get in to their ED school to tell them that they were rejected by following the rules, or that by flouting convention they coulda-shoulda-woulda. I also know several kids who ended up in their safety schools (nothing wrong with that, but not where they thought they'd be) who had a reputation for being snotty to school personnel, who acted arrogantly when asked why they missed so many classes and who wrote lengthy essays on their applications as if they were the next William Safire. Sometimes the high stats kids choose to attend a school a few rungs "lower down" than their first choice... sometimes they end up there when a teacher or two decides they've taken enough Cr*& and writes an honest recommendation.</p>

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<p>Eddy_Merkx, I think ilcapo is off the mark in his own analysis. But then again, I haven't met ilcapo in person, so I could be wrong. Trying to read the tea leaves is a dangerous occupation. :)</p>

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<p>A long time ago, I heard the cliche "the exception that proves the rule." I've always had trouble figuring that one out, but perhaps you are an example of this, Ilcapo. Good luck at Princeton, young man! It seems that you wear your heart on your sleeve, and perhaps THAT is one of the qualities that helped you stand out, and endeared you to the adcoms, warts and all.</p>

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<p>I have read ilcapos posts for a long time, way back when I was a mere lurker. I believe he is an exceptional candidate who is a real person, unafraid of speaking his mind. Sometimes he was confused, sometimes he was irrational....but all in all, he is a great kid in my mind. This posting was intended to be helpful, and I think grown men and women should either keep their mouths shut, or thank him for it - there is no excuse for a parent saying that they are glad ilcapo "is not their own". It's simply rude, and a horrible thing to say to someone who is being gracious.</p>

<p>edit: ilcapos original posting is also very informative in that it exposes the fact that you do not need to follow every rule of admissions to be accepted to a great school. people would probably pay $20 for a book written by some former adcom entitled "how to break the rules and still get in to a great school"...yet some of you find this insulting to the process? I think for 'alternative' students, his tips can help them find peace of mind in knowing that not every convention must be followed.</p>

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<p>I saw absolutely nothing suprising in Ilcapo's post that started this thread. Clearly, he had what is probably the rarest thing to find in college applicants: a strong, demonstrated passion in something that is not that typical for h.s. students to do.</p>

<p>Typically, candidates to top colleges who appear to be demonstrating intellectual passion are doing it in the sciences. Ilcapo did not do this. There also was no indication that he was forced into a "passion" because of overbearing parents who just happened to be in that field.</p>

<p>While top colleges like candidates to take the most difficult curriculum, that doesn't mean that candidates must take the toughest courses in all subjects. Adcoms are flexible particularly when it's clear that a candidate has a strong lopsided interest and is pursuing that interest in depth.</p>

<p>Anyway, Ilcapo's success can be taken as a cautionary tale for students who ignore their own passions and interests in order to follow some kind of rigid formula to Ivy success. His post certainly doesn't mean, however, that the way to get into a top college is to do exactly what he did. His road worked for him because he was following his heart, not the so-called rulebook.</p>

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<p>Ilcapo, when you stated with regard to your GC that "this woman does nothing", I feel insulted on the part of educators. Now, if you told me she was ill informed, derelict in certain duties, not nice, showed lack of effort with something, not professional, or a myriad of other specific things, I could see it. Believe me, I have come in contact with educators whom I do not think too highly of. However, as an educator myself, I don't believe there is ANY educator who does "nothing." She likely has worked very hard but it is possible that she has other faults, as in my examples. But I doubt she does NOTHING. That comment shows disrespect to those who do her job, even if not done real well, she does work for kids. Think about it. </p>

<p>When I read that you referred to your adcom using a five letter curse word, now your GC is someone who does "nothing" and you were going to write a negative peer rec for another student sabotaging her as a fellow applicant, were absent from classes without trying to amiably work out a schedule conflict and then blamed the teachers if they might not pass you due to this problem, it reflects on a certain attitude about educators and about the process here and ultimately about yourself. You may not realize this, but you are not coming across well in these examples. You have LOTS going for you academically, artistically, motivationally, extracurricularly, and achievement-wise.....but these other characteristics are also what carries you through life. Did you have an interview for Princeton? You need to be careful or think about how you sometimes come across in your posts.</p>

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<p>I think kids need to listen to what drives them. That is what will help them find a place where they can thrive, not trying to 2nd guess admission offices.</p>

<p>One of the first kids at my daughters school to be admitted to Princeton was admitted before Thanksgiving. Her hook was that she is on a national crew team, it would be pretty hard to come up with that if you weren't interested in it ( and good) and what would be the point?</p>

<p>Reggie Watts is probably typical for some of the superacheivers, no one is pushing them, they are pulling themselves

[quote]
OK, world's longest question: You've been compared to Al Green, Marvin Gaye, Barry White, Bryan Ferry, Isaac Hayes, Chris Cornell, Robert Plant. You've styled songs on your 2004 solo album "Simplified" in the vein of Hall and Oates, Depeche Mode and Joe Jackson. You sing soul, pop, hip-hop, jazz, rock, electronica, funk, R&B. You dance, sing, perform and do stand-up. Aren't you really, really tired?</p>

<p>A: Yes and no. If there was a cartoon of me being dragged on the ground by an arm, if you pulled back the camera, you'd see it was my own arm. I'm exhausted, but I'm addicted to doing these things.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>I agree with Northstarmom. </p>

<p>Futureadcom... I also agree that Ilcapo's post points out that kids can get into a college who did not follow each of those specific points he made and I posted to him regarding those points. It is good for other kids to hear that, sure! But it is NOT surprising, as I stated before. None of those "rules" are steadfast ones....each alone is a guideline, but a guideline that is broken time and again when adcoms are looking holistically at students and so it is not any one thing in terms of black and white. A rank below 10% is not common for admission (as the stats of accepted students attest) and thus is a trend but it does not make it impossible to be accepted if that one thing is not in place in a child's profile. A child who is first generation might trump class rank, or a kid who took college classes might trump no AP Physics. A kid who explored his passions might trump some other "common rule". I don't think it is unusual that Ilcapo got in. I think those guidelines he was told are just that...guidelines, or trends but clearly all are broken time and again. They take a person, not a list of numbers.</p>

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<p>Achat: There are many, more dangerous, occupations.</p>

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<p>Conventional wisdom would say that the best way to increase your standard of living would be to get a college education. But look at the Williams sisters (tennis stars) and LeBron James (basketball star)--people who as teenagers made MILLIONS of dollars without the benefit of a college degree. </p>

<p>If you have a special talent like ilcapo, then the "application rules" don't apply to you. But if you aren't blessed with a super special talent, then the tried-and-true, safe way will yield better results on average. </p>

<p>Let's hope that 4 years at Princeton will round out some of ilcapo's "sharp elbows."</p>

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<p>Ilcapo also benefitted from the fact that he fit Princeton's zeitgeist this year. Princeton is actively seeking out students who are artistic, and Ilcapo's great photography must have impressed the adcoms. If Princeton had decided to attract more math/science students, he might not have fared as well in the admission process.</p>

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<p>I am one of 10 kids and was raised by the adage that if you are going to tell, you better tell it all. </p>

<p>Unless someone has followed IlCapo's threads through out his process when he makes general statements like:</p>

<p>You must take physics. </p>

<p>Not true, I never took physics...in fact I didn't even take a science senior year.</p>

<p>-You must take an Advanced Placement math course.</p>

<p>Teachers in the math department insisted that if I dropped AP Calculus, I was spelling out a death wish for any top school. Princeton accepted me without me even being enrolled in a math course (I am taking Statistical Methods in Political Science in Spring)</p>

<p>You won't get in to any Ivy level school if you aren't in the top 10%</p>

<p>Ranked 50 of 400, accepted at Princeton.</p>

<p>While the situation may be true for him, someone without knowledge of his background , and because Il does not tell his whole story, some one will look at this lone posting and beleive that Il has discovered some kind of magic bullet and in the end his advice (IMHO) will do more harm than good.</p>

<p>As one of the parents previously mentioned, Princeton tales a "wholistic " look at the applicant, so while it is easy to make general statements, the reader of the post does not have the luxury of knowing all of the components that went into the application.</p>

<p>Il needs to talk about while he has not taken Physics or AP calc, he has signed up and taken a string (close to 10 ) college courses, and while they may not be calculated in to his GPA and has no affect on his ranking, the grades will still be on his transcript and will demonstrate his ability to do college level work.</p>

<p>I have really held off a long time from making this comment, but I have read some of Ilcapo's other comments, and I feel at some level Princeton did him no favor by accepting him because he has shown every thing but grace and compassions. Since his acceptance he has come off in some of his post as arrogant, condescending, and seems to be looking down at others who won't be wearing the orange this year. I just from communicating with other parents on this forum who are Princeton alums or have children who are attending Princeton, can you say that you are happy with how IL is showing him self as one of the "faces of Princeton"?</p>

<p>We have met some amazing young people who have been admitted into some exceptional places and has not let the acceptance go to their head (worse if some one comes off with grandious ego issues to begin with. Or it could be his coping mechanism)</p>

<p>Regarding the comment;</p>

<p>"I think grown men and women should either keep their mouths shut, or thank him for it - there is no excuse for a parent saying that they are glad ilcapo "is not their own". It's simply rude, and a horrible thing to say to someone who is being gracious"</p>

<p>I would be remiss as a parent if my child (while not perfect by a long shot) walked around with this attitude and I stood by and idly watched. He should be proud of his accomplishments but he should also be cognizant as to how he appears before others because his 4 years at Princeton will be what he makes of it. All of the book smarts in the world can make up for being life stupid. But as I said in previous post, thankfully he is young and can grow out of this.</p>

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<p>Ilcapo, it is obvious from reading your post why you got into Princeton. The quality that ignited the virgulate-headed promulgators of worthiness here in CC is the one that will take you a long way in life. Your passion is to speak your mind fearlessly is what Princeton wants from you. Develop it, nurture it, tame it, and best of luck to you, young man.</p>

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<p>Sybbie,
Your post makes me think a bit more about this obviously talented, but stressed young man. He was engaged in some unusual postings on this forum before he was admitted, and I have never looked at the Princeton board so I don;t know how things might have played out there. Something is not falling into place in my mind. Grandiosity, disinhibition...I have my radar tuned.</p>