Here're my thoughts, your input is appreciated (H or Y)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>I need some help figuring out which college to choose to attend. Sometimes typing things out really helps to organize thoughts, and sometimes when strangers read the writing, insights previously unknown to the writer will surface (I'm hoping this is the case for me). Now, here's my list between Harvard and Yale; please read then give me your input!</p>

<p>Campus: I love the closed off feeling of Yale--the school is distinctly separate from the city of New Haven. At Harvard, Cambridge essentially runs through the campus and I don't like that. It makes everything feel so disjointed and scattered.</p>

<p>Location: Um, Boston over New Haven any day, I think. So Harvard wins in this respect.</p>

<p>Academics: Both are great schools, but Yale has this five-year masters program with their School of Public Health that I'm totally interested in. Although this program requires a separate application in junior year and I might not get in, the thing is, if I go to Yale, there's that option there. If I go to Harvard I won't even have that option. Aside from that five-year program though, the academics are basically even. So no one really beats the other out here, but for sure Yale's masters program is a HUGE plus (actually, one of my main reasons for wanting to go to Yale).</p>

<p>Housing: Yale has the residential college system that is absolutely amazing. You really form this connection with people in your house and I'm excited to be a part of it. Harvard has something similar, but nothing compared to Yale. However, when I visited both campuses, I felt that the roommates at Harvard were like family--they all worked in the common room and really were best friends. At Yale though, my host didn't even talk to her roommates and the common room was bare (to the point where I wondered whether anyone lived in the suite). I have to keep in mind that my host isn't really representative of what freshmen roommate connections are like at Yale, but it certainly shows that because Harvard has you take this roommate survey as opposed to Yale's random assignment, I might not be able to recreate a family at Yale (does that make sense?). On the other hand, I don't want to feel like I can NEVER get alone time in my own room. I like doing my homework by myself, for instance, but if my desk is in the common room (like at Harvard), then I'll never be alone.</p>

<p>Food: I'm going into Nutritional Sciences, so obviously food will play an important role in my college years (not only that, but I love food =D). Boston easily wins in this department (though I do wonder how often I will be going into Boston. How're the restaurants like in Cambridge?).</p>

<p>Opportunities: For everything else, the opportunities are the same at both schools (ie, traveling abroad, grants, research, etc.), but the opportunities that Boston presents are so much greater in terms of hospitals I can intern in, or public schools I can work with (in nutrition). But Harvard does not have the opportunity of getting a masters in five years. So I really don't know. In addition, I know that Yale has this sustainable farm that they recently started and I'd love to be a part of it. I don't know if Harvard has anything similar.</p>

<p>Weather: Okay, I admit it: I'm a total wimp when it comes to cold weather, so every little thing counts. New Haven is two and a half hours SOUTH of Cambridge, meaning that their winters would be slightly less harsh.</p>

<p>Calendar: Yale DEFINITELY wins here: they get a whole week off for Thanksgiving! Harvard gets the typical four days.</p>

<p>I'm probably missing a category, but that's all I can think about at this time. I simply don't know which to choose because both have pros and cons. So what are your inputs after reading this? Thank you!</p>

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<p>I went to Harvard undergrad and Yale grad school. Admittedly some time ago - my son just graduated from Harvard - but I’ve kept in close touch with both. I’m a big fan of both schools so I’m definitely in the “you can’t go wrong” camp on this choice. But a few thoughts on your comparisons.</p>

<p>First of all, it’s hard to imagine two more similar schools than these two - in terms of education, student body, housing system, opportunities, etc. Both are great on all scores.</p>

<p>Campus - Harvard Yard and Yale’s Old Campus (the focus for freshmen at each) are equally distinct and set off. Harvard’s houses are a little more separated from the Yard than Yale’s colleges are from Old Campus, but they’re pretty distinct from the city too. Hard for me to see that much difference.</p>

<p>Location - I agree that Cambridge/Boston has the advantage, but don’t sell New Haven short. It’s not a bad little city.</p>

<p>Academics - both schools are pretty amazing, though I’d give Harvard a bit of an edge for sciences and Yale a bit of an edge for humanities. I’m not familiar with Yale’s five-year program with school of public health, but Harvard’s school of public health is probably the premier in the country. As an undergrad at either, I think you’ll have some access to the resources of the grad schools, but you should probably ask at Harvard about the ability to take courses at, and otherwise access the resources of, their school of public health.</p>

<p>Housing - Yale’s residential colleges and Harvard’s houses are very similar. Hard to see your assessment on this one - I still feel very bonded to my undergrad House. But I also think that you had an atypical experience at Yale with your host not talking to her roommates - as a general matter roomies at both schools get along well with each other. You’ll probably get a desk in your own room as an upperclassman at Harvard - but having a desk in the common room freshman year never really bothered me (or my son). There are also lots of libraries with great study space at both schools.</p>

<p>Food - Cambridge has some decent restaurants, though Boston is better and wider range - including some really great restaurants. New Haven has some decent restaurants too - probably comparable to Cambridge but not Boston. That said, at either school you’re probably going to do most of your meals on campus, where both schools are a bit above average as colleges go, but we’re not talking gourmet food at either.</p>

<p>Opportunities are generally pretty similar at both schools - sounds like you’ve done some research on the areas you’re particularly interested in.</p>

<p>Weather is really very similar at both schools - can’t say that I noticed much of difference based on New Haven’s slightly more southern location. Both can get very cold and snowy at times, so if cold weather is really a problem, I can’t recommend either.</p>

<p>Calendar - I used to give the edge to Yale on this because I hated having first semester exams after Christmas (as did my son). But Harvard just changed its calendar this year to move exams before Christmas (they did this to try to align the undergrad and graduate school calendars so that undergrads could take better advantage of the grad schools, but it had the ancillary benefit of no longer ruining Christmas break). Hard for me to get excited by the difference between a week off and four days off for Thanksgiving, but if it matters to you, then there is still that difference.</p>

<p>Two other categories that I think are important in assessing colleges - student body and extracurriculars. I think both are great at both schools, so I can’t give the edge to one or the other in these categories, but still worth trying to look into/assess.</p>

<p>Ultimately, it’s hard for me to imagine that anyone who would be happy at one of these schools would not be happy at the other. So I’d advise spending as much time as you’re able to visit both and then just deciding where you feel the most comfortable. Or maybe just flip a coin. :)</p>

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<p>Re: housing and residential colleges. H and Y will be very similar, with the exception that Y students are assigned to their Houses at the outset while H students spend their freshman year on the Old Yard together, then go to their Houses for the next three years. At H, this requires the necessary angst known as “blocking groups” which a lot of frosh find stressful, but there are some significant benefits. Because all the freshmen live together for a year, there are friendships formed that subsequently interconnect classmates to one another regardless of House assignment. I would think that over the course of the four years, H students may have broader connections to friends in other Houses - and therefore to the whole of their graduating class - than might be typical at Y.</p>

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<p>I’m making the same decision. I second cosar’s last statement :slight_smile: If I really can’t decide by May 1st, my plan is to just pick the one that bashes the other the least. Yale hated on Harvard at BDD a lot, so I’ll see if Harvard hates that much on Yale this weekend. Good luck! Everyone tells me this and I know that it doesn’t make the decision any less stressful, but you really cannot go wrong :). Another thing to consider-- New Haven is a much crappier city than Cambridge, which may seem like a downside, but it actually gives you lots of opportunities to volunteer, especially in public health. I was really pleased with how much volunteer work Yale students do in New Haven. There is a student group at Yale that goes into middle and high schools in New Haven and teaches health because apparently there isn’t any health education in the public schools. That sounds like it’d be perfect for you, and it’d look great on a resume. You could probably do similar things in Boston, too, but it’s definitely farther from Harvard than New Haven schools are from Yale.</p>

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<p>I agree with the sentiment that there isn’t a wrong decision. (My D had the choice four years ago and chose H.)</p>

<p>I would just like to follow up on post #4. While Boston may be farther from the H campus than New Haven is from the Y campus, H is in Cambridge, and there are opportunities to volunteer in the Cambridge schools. (Not that Boston is all that far from the H campus.) As an example, my D volunteered with special needs children at a Cambridge school within walking distance of the H campus. </p>

<p>Here’s a link that will give you a good idea of some of the volunteer opportunities at H. [Phillips</a> Brooks House Association](<a href=“http://pbha.org/]Phillips”>http://pbha.org/)</p>

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<p>I dont think Harvard is going to hate on Yale as much as Yale hated on Harvard.</p>

<p>But I liked that Yale was hating on Harvard. Its a huge rivalry and I like the school spirit. Nothing would make me more angry at admitted student days when I would say “what do you think of these schools?” And people would say “I don’t want to say anything negative.” Sell your school to me man.</p>

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I think that’s generally correct and was my D’s experience when she visited H. I also think there are ways to sell one’s school without bashing its rival. To me, that’s a more effective, confident sales pitch.</p>

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<p>Well I was choosing between Yale and Princeton, and I wanted to hear why Yale was better than Princeton, and vice-versa not just why Yale or Princeton were great.</p>

<p>Its not like you’re going to hear the drawbacks of Princeton from people at Princeton, or the drawbacks of Yale from the people at Yale, or the drawbacks of Harvard from the people at Harvard.</p>

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<p>Correct. Harvard mostly tries to sell you on Harvard and seldom mentions any other schools. I’d be surprised if there were any significant Yale bashing.</p>

<p>Now around the time of the annual football game it’s another story.</p>

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<p>Did your child attend admitted students days at both schools? Mine did, and he heard plenty of bashing coming from both sides (and did not like it coming from either side). I think it’s part of a non-pathological rivalry, but it’s just not true that denigrating Y is beneath the dignity of H students. [Yale</a> Daily News - Harvard freshman operates Yale ■■■ site](<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/12/01/harvard-runs-yalefmlcom-■■■/]Yale”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/12/01/harvard-runs-yalefmlcom-■■■/)</p>

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<p>^^No, she did not attend either one. I was referring more to what the schools themselves said during admissions spiels, tours, etc. rather than what students said. Yale regularly kept pointing out ways in which it was as good as or better than Harvard, advantages of Yale over Harvard, etc. Harvard never mentioned Yale or any other school.</p>

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<p>With regards to the bashing or lack thereof, Harvard has sat at the top of higher education in most people’s minds for a very, very long time. Everyone at Harvard knows they’re the best. And they know you know it too! </p>

<p>… but seriously. Yale is amazing. I probably would have picked it over Harvard, but alas, they didn’t give me the chance to choose. :stuck_out_tongue: It’s just that some Yale students tend to get this ridiculous inferiority complex which can only be resolved by bringing Harvard down. Meh.</p>

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<p>I think the extent of the “bashing” is “Harvard Sucks”. Most people here (at Yale) have several friends at Harvard and others chose between the two universities too. I don’t think anyone genuinely believes that it sucks - or means to say anything mean… it’s just a rivalry thing.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the responses! I guess part of the reason why I’m so undecided is BECAUSE the two schools are rather similar, that I must go nit-picking into small details that I feel will make a tremendous difference. But I simply still don’t know and I only have a week left!</p>

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<p>^^Well in that case just pick based on whether you look better wearing crimson or blue. You’ll want to look your best while wearing your hoodie around campus.</p>

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<p>^ coureur. This was literally one of my deciding factors. No joke. </p>

<p>And I completely forgot. Good advice!</p>

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<p>“^^No, she did not attend either one. I was referring more to what the schools themselves said during admissions spiels, tours, etc. rather than what students said. Yale regularly kept pointing out ways in which it was as good as or better than Harvard, advantages of Yale over Harvard, etc. Harvard never mentioned Yale or any other school.”</p>

<p>I’m EXTREMELY skeptical that this is true. Most schools have an official no-bashing policy towards other schools. In my personal experience through the initial (pre-admission) visits, the only mention of Harvard was that they aren’t a part of the library exchange. During my visit to Harvard, our guide put in a jab towards Yale. But the administrations have official policies against school-bashing, so I’m skeptical someone would hear that in an information session.</p>

<p>What exactly did kids at Harvard tell you that set it apart from other schools without bashing other schools? That it had great prestige? That it had great academics? That they have a huge endowment? That there are tons of undergraduate opportunities? All those things are true at Harvard–and all those things are true at Yale, Princeton, and Stanford as well.</p>

<p>I don’t buy for one second the idea that any HYPS school can efficiently sell itself against other HYPS schools just through positive things about themselves. You mean to tell me that if a kid says to a Harvard student “I’m deciding between Harvard and Yale” the student wouldn’t say “I’d much rather live in Cambridge (just outside of Boston) than New Haven.”? All Colleges sell themselves, and when I was at Yale, I heard students (not the Administration) say why they were better than Harvard, why they were better than Princeton, why they were better than Columbia, and etc.</p>

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<p>I attended local conventions for each university organized by the region’s alumni and I found that the rivalry was fully referenced and reciprocated by each when school comparisons entered the conversation. Harvard alumni would lightheartedly refer to it as “Fale.” Yale alumni would engage in such tautology as to avoid direct mention of Harvard’s name and essentially alluded to it as the “school-in-Massachusetts-that-must-not-be-named.” Although these groups are by no means representative of the collective atmosphere of each university, it demonstrates that some degree of understandable friction does exist between the two.</p>

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<p>That’s actually quite true. Harvard is nearly universally referenced as the epitome of higher education.</p>

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<p>:) To be quite honest, if Harvard and Yale’s colors were flipped, that would have thrown a slight difficulty into my decision process. (I prefer red to blue.)</p>

<p>As for your decision Bookworm88, it seems as if you are presently drifting in favor of Yale. I sincerely hope that you select Harvard, of course, but it appears as if Yale surpasses Harvard according to your personal specifications.</p>

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<p>Well, I hate to dampen any of your EXTREME skepticism, but I can’t deny simple facts. I’m not reporting my opinion, or what I’ve heard from others, but what I actually heard myself at the respective sessions and tours. Your experience, of course, may have been different.</p>

<p>And Yale didn’t bash Harvard in the sense of “Harvard sucks!” or any other form of rudeness. It was more a case of repeatedly comparing themselves to Harvard and asserting that they were just as good or better. After about the 3rd or 4th reference to Harvard, it began to seem as though they were trying to convince themselves more than us. Harvard, on the other hand, never mentioned any other schools by name. They just extolled what they had to offer. </p>

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<p>I can’t remember the exact words the schools used, but overarching message or vibe that each school presented to sell itself was this:</p>

<p>Harvard: “We have everything here. Come and get it.”</p>

<p>Yale: “We are great. You’ll be happier here than at Harvard. We are wonderful. We are as good as Harvard. No, really. We really are, honest.”</p>

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<p>And I’m telling you that while current student hosts are less likely to follow the rules, it is against the Yale policy to compare themselves to any schools–and those are rules that the actual admissions staff members are likely to follow. I went to the tours to, and I’m saying that not only is what your describing distinctly against the Yale admissions policy, but was not my experience at all. So apparently, you not only went on a day completely different from mine–but on a day they decided to inexplicably break their own rules.</p>

<p>Its not like people at Yale were the kids that were denied from Harvard. A large amount of the students there picked Yale over Harvard or didn’t apply to Harvard in the first place. The only head-to-head numbers I have are slightly outdated (2006) but showed 1 out of 3 picked Yale over Harvard. That’s reasonably close, by the head-to-head standards (for example, 1 out of 3 students picked Princeton over Yale, and 1/3 picked Stanford over Yale).</p>

<p>The bottom line is that the schools are rivals. I think its sort of out there to suggest Yale has any sort of obsessive competition with Harvard beyond the rivalry the two schools share.</p>