High GPA but low ACT scores, what to do?

Parent Cafe
21

<p>Even kids with very high IQs can have significant LDs. If you strongly suspect that your son has an LD you should arrange to have him tested by someone good, someone who specializes in doing such educational testing. Your son may be eligible for an accomodation, up to and including double-time to take standardized tests. The eligibility rules for this are spelled out on the Collegeboard.com site. I would suggest doing this before he takes his first official standardized test.</p>

<p>This might be the best money you invest in your son’s education.</p>

22

<p>*Should we wait until spring (which they recommend) to take the first ACT/SAT tests or do it right away and maybe take 2 this year and another one early senior year?
*</p>

<p>I don’t know who is making such a recommendation, but both my kids took their first ACT and SAT in the winter of junior year. There’s no reason to wait til spring for the first tests.</p>

<p>As for the right name for that ACT book…It’s called…The REAL ACT Prep Guide. Those books can be gotten from bookstores, Amazon, or from the Collegeboard and ACT websites.</p>

<p>And, definitely look into getting a tutor to work on English skills. :slight_smile: That is an easy area for a smart kid to improve. :)</p>

23

<p>Yardim, I think your problem is that you are fixated on the “remedial” requirement – that is not related to admission or your son’s ability to do well in college. </p>

<p>Your son can get accepted to a Cal State U. and can meet the requirement in a number of ways. See: [CSU</a> English Success: English Placement Test](<a href=“http://www.csumathsuccess.org/ept_requirement]CSU”>http://www.csumathsuccess.org/ept_requirement)</p>

<p>One way appears to be to answer 15 optional multiple choice questions on the STAR testing that will be given to all juniors this spring; see:
[CSU</a> English Success: Early Assessment Program](<a href=“http://www.csumathsuccess.org/eap_esw]CSU”>http://www.csumathsuccess.org/eap_esw)</p>

<p>Another would be for him to enroll in an appropriate English class in community college course and get a grade of C or better. With your son’s high grades, I’ll bet he could do this easily. Check the evening and summer classes at your local community college; also I know that there are some online community college classes that can be taken for transfer credit to the CSU’s. </p>

<p>Your son can also take an English Placement test at a CSU at any time during his senior year:
[CSU</a> English Success: English Placement Test](<a href=“http://www.csumathsuccess.org/ept]CSU”>http://www.csumathsuccess.org/ept)</p>

<p>This test can only be taken once, so he would want to use the links for test preparation materials first to practice and familiarize himself with the testing. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that the goal of this requirement is to ensure that your son can write well enough to meet expectations in other classes, so even though it is frustrating, overall it will benefit him to take the suggested community college course or to take the remedial courses offered at the CSU. I do think the fact that you do not speak English at home is probably a factor – your son probably does not have the intuitive understanding of English grammar that native English speakers have. Standardized tests have questions that are deliberately designed to trip people up over minor errors that might not be apparent or stand out in other contexts, so it is quite likely he will do just fine in a class that focuses on overall ability rather than a administration of a multiple-choice type test. </p>

<p>On the SAT or ACT, there will always be questions that ask the student to pick out the “best” choice of phrasing, where the test is set up so there is always at least one answer that is “wrong” but close enough to being right that it will lead many students to choose it. If they didn’t design the tests that way, the tests would be too easy – but the same sort of mistakes that bring your son’s test scores down may be so trivial in real life that teachers are likely to overlook them, or note a correction without grading down for the error.</p>

24

<p>Calmom, thank you so muck for the detailed info. I feel much better after reading you tread. Do you have any input about his chance of getting into SJSU, Chico, Sonoma if he gets his practice scores on the actual tests and have any suggestions for industrial design major?</p>

25

<p>Yardim, I really don’t have any information about admission, but I don’t think those test scores have anything at all to do with admission requirements. With a 4.0 GPA he should not have a problem qualifying for admission – the higher the GPA, the less needed for test scores. The eligibility index for CSU’s is: </p>

<p>GPA* x 800 + Your SAT Reasoning Test (2900 required)</p>

<p>or </p>

<p>(Your GPA* x 200) + (10 x ACT Composite) (694 required)</p>

<p>See: [CSUMentor</a> - Plan for College - High School Students - Eligibility Index](<a href=“Cal State Apply | CSU”>http://www.csumentor.edu/planning/high_school/eligibility_index.asp)</p>

<p>So with a 4.0 GPA your son could have -0- on the standardized tests and still qualify for admisson – based on GPA alone his SAT index is 4.0 x 800 = 3200 – about 300 points above the required minimum; his ACT index is 4.0 x 200 = 800 – which is 106 points above the required minimum. </p>

<p>If I include the SAT and ACT scores, based on what you provided, here are your son’s index scores:</p>

<p>SAT (based on PSAT - note that they look at CR & Math scores only):</p>

<p>(4.0 x 800) + 1160 = 4360</p>

<p>ACT
(4.0 x 200) + (10 x 26) = 1060</p>

<p>So clearly your son’s numbers are way above the minimum.<br>
The main thing now is that your son needs to get his applications in to CSU’s EARLY – admission is impacted at some campuses, which means that they don’t have room for all eligible students. You should also make sure that your son fulfills all required courses:</p>

<p>4 years English
3 years Mathematics
2 years Social Science
2 years Science with a Laboratory
2 years Foreign Language
1 year Visual and Performing Arts
1 year College Preparatory Elective</p>

<p>See [California</a> State University, Chico - Freshmen: Admission Requirements - CSU, Chico](<a href=“http://em.csuchico.edu/admissions/freshmen/AdmissionRequirements.aspx]California”>http://em.csuchico.edu/admissions/freshmen/AdmissionRequirements.aspx) for more details as to those requirements.</p>

26

<p>Although the minimum requirements/eligibility index for Cal State may be met, if the school you want to attend or the program you want to major in is “impacted,” you may have to have a substantially higher score than the minimum to get into the school or program you want. </p>

<p>Also, he will have to apply within that one month period in November of senior year if he wants to apply to any impacted schools. This year, many Cal States closed their application window at the end of November because they had enough applications to choose from to fill a class. Blame budget cuts…</p>

<p>Our public school GCs were very up to date on all of the latest CSU and UC news. Be sure your son keeps in touch with them next year.</p>

<p>But someone with an unweighted 4.0 in high school taking a college prep curriculum should not have any trouble getting into any of the Cal States you mentioned.</p>

<p>Calmom is also correct that if you don’t get the requisite score on the SAT or ACT sections, you can take the English and/or math entrance exam for CSU. If you don’t pass that, then you’ll be assigned to remedial courses.</p>

<p>I’m surprised that you are not looking at any UC schools.</p>

27

<p>I’d note that despite the low English score, a 26 ACT composite is pretty good – your son’s math and science scores are better than my daughter’s and she was admitted to top-ranked colleges and universities. </p>

<p>It’s clear that your son has some issues with English composition, but overall he sounds like a very capable student, and his scores are in range for a lot of schools. It might be a good idea to have a teacher or tutor look over a sample of his writing to give you some feedback as to whether he seems to have a significant problem with written expression that would hurt him in college, or if it is more a matter of being tripped up over the standardized test format.</p>

28

<p>I think he has a very good chance for the California State Schools. There is no stigma associated with taking the remedial class in English if that’s required. You may in fact have him ask to take it since success in writing would make it easier for him to deal with courses in history, government, business, etc.</p>

<p>It sounds very much like your S has a very strong work ethic. His recommendations would no doubt show that.</p>

29

<p>This may also help you <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-preparation/68210-xiggis-sat-prep-advice.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-preparation/68210-xiggis-sat-prep-advice.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

30

<p>Thank you so much for all your responds. I appreciate each and everyone of you. I would love him to attend Cal Poly San Lois O. The learn by doing system would be perfect for him, but that school is harder to get in than the rest of Cal State. Would you say that with his stats he has a change there too. It seems like they have higher ACT scores The only negative about that school is you have to pick and stick to your major. He is not sure about his major yet; industrial design, information technology are his interests. We found out that SJSU has industrial design but you have to choose it after the first semester. Do you know any public or private schools known in these fields. </p>

<p>I would like to thank each and everyone of you again. This is a wonderful site.</p>

31

<p>My S has the opposite problem. Strong test scores (ACT composite = 34) but relatively low GPA. I know, from a variety of sources, that GPA is much more important than test scores. So what purpose do ACT and SAT scores serve in a situation where they aren’t in sync with the GPA? Will some schools consider ACT scores (which I read is more representative of a student’s ability than the SAT test) as an indication that the student has potential? His high school is known for tough grading, so can he make a case that the higher ACT scores demonstrate that he is more competent than what his deflated grades suggest?</p>

<p>The whole college admission process is a mystery wrapped in an enigma. This discrepancy between gpa and act scores is making the process a bit more mysterious. Appreciate any thoughts, particularly if someone was in a similar situation.</p>

<p>PS : No, the ACT scores weren’t a result of extraordinary coaching. He took a couple of practice tests at home and we went over the practice tests.</p>

32

<p>^^^</p>

<p>Is your son a junior or senior?</p>

<p>What is his weighted GPA?</p>

<p>I wouldn’t say that GPA is more important than test scores, because there are many kids with 4.0 GPAs whose schools practice massive grade inflation or are sub-standard schools (therefore a A at that school would be a B at another.). </p>

<p>Those kids will post on CC that they have a 4.0 or 3.8 GPA with an ACT 22 (or similar). Schools are not going to be impressed with a 4.0 with an ACT 22 - especially if that’s par for the course for that school.</p>

<p>Conversely, a very high ACT with truly low GPA sends a message that the child won’t do his homework, won’t follow directions for assignments, leaves assignments at home (instead of turning them in), etc.</p>

<p>So extreme differences (high scores/low GPA and high GPA/low scores) send different messages to colleges…</p>

<p>However, your idea of a “low GPA” may not be that low at all. :)</p>

<p>What is his weighted GPA? What is his UW GPA?</p>

<p>If it’s not really low, he still can get into many colleges. Is money an issue?</p>

33

<p>Son is a senior. His school doesn’t compute a GPA, but when I compute a weighted GPA it is a bit below 3 on a 4.0 scale. I know it doesn’t compare to all the GPAs I see posted here. However, his college counseling office assured us that many colleges know about the tough grading policies at his high school. For example, the local large state university automatically adds a 0.5 to the grades for students from his highschool (or so we are told). Several students from his highschool each year go to highly selective schools (ivies etc) and 100% of students go to college.</p>

34

<p>Cal Poly San Luis Obispo is probably the most competitive CSU to get into if you are interested in an engineering or architecture major. I would feel better if your S could score even a little higher on the SAT/ACT test–it could make a difference. I used an SAT score of 1800/2400 in looking at the scatterplots earlier referenced. Getting a 1900 seems to increase chances at getting accepted.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.arcadiachineseparents.org/plots/2008/CPSLO.png[/url]”>http://www.arcadiachineseparents.org/plots/2008/CPSLO.png&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I would my effort into two places: do more science practice tests. He seems to be good in science and math, but the science section is more of a graph interpretation section. Familiarity with the format would definitely help.</p>

<p>Secondly, I would try to figure out what the problem is with the English section. Grammar rules would help. Getting the timing of the test down may help.</p>

<p>Finally, take the ACT test to see what he would get. Estimating from books is nice, but may not be so accurate. Prep in the above two areas and give it a try. Also give the SAT a try.</p>

35

<p>*Son is a senior. His school doesn’t compute a GPA, but when I compute a weighted GPA it is a bit below 3 on a 4.0 scale. I know it doesn’t compare to all the GPAs I see posted here. However, his college counseling office assured us that many colleges know about the tough grading policies at his high school. For example, the local large state university automatically adds a 0.5 to the grades for students from his highschool (or so we are told). Several students from his highschool each year go to highly selective schools (ivies etc) and 100% of students go to college. *</p>

<p>I’m not sure what you mean. What exactly is on your son’s transcript? It sounds like he’s not given grades (like A, B, C). Do his report cards and transcript show numbers on a scale of 100? If not, what scale does it use?</p>

<p>Is it possible that you’re not converting accurately? Does it seem right that his GPA would convert to be under 3.0?</p>

36

<p>mom2collegekids: His school gives out letter grades like most other schools, but it doesn’t compute a GPA. We had to compute the GPA myself (and cross checked with school). School sends out transcripts without gpa and without class rank. It also doesn’t identify any classes as AP or Hons, although many classes qualify for these criteria (based on how tough the classes are, size of the classes, and the AP based syllabus). In other words, the school expects colleges to learn about the school and consider their students’ record on that basis. That works out well at some schools, but I don’t think most large public universities care to do the necessary work to know a specific high school. So my son is at a disadvantage when schools have minimum gpa requirements (unofficial, of course).</p>

<p>Also, when I said weighted GPA, it is only weighting for difference in number of credits. I understand others use higher weight for an AP or a hons course (e.g. if Statistics is a 1.0 course credit at my son’s high school, a public school offering the same course would call it AP Statistics and the weighted might be 1.1 for that course), but since the school doesn’t identify any of the courses as Ap or hons, even the AP courses (based on the syllabus/text used and the AP tests taken) look like plain courses. It is frustrating – feels like my son is taking a knife to a gun fight because the school confiscated his gun and sent him off with a knife for the fight.</p>

37

<p>*In other words, the school expects colleges to learn about the school and consider their students’ record on that basis. *</p>

<p>That is just arrogant, and kind of conceited on their part. What makes them think that the nation’s hundreds of colleges have the time (or interest) in learning about this school’s odd-ball policy? Do they think if EVERY high school instituted an odd ball policy, that colleges would spend time learning about each and every one? That is just naive thinking - and actually, it’s rather childish thinking.</p>

<p>My sons’ Catholic school used to refuse to weight grades, but then it was shown that students were actually losing out on automatic merit scholarships at various schools in the region. Some students were also likely getting rejected from some elite schools due to their GPAs, but there was no way to prove that. However, the financial repercussions were easily demonstrated when awards would be “automatic.”</p>

<p>At that point, there was no way that the school board could further justify standing by their position. However, then the board dragged its feet for 18 months “deciding” how to weight the grades. Later, at a parent meeting, when they said that they were “still deciding how,” I stood up and reminded them that when I was on the school board, we didn’t spend THAT MUCH TIME interviewing candidates and hiring the current principal. Sheepishly, they came up with weighted GPA scale within the month (by just copying another school’s weighting system.) Seriously, sometimes schools have to be shamed into doing what’s right. </p>

<p>*It is frustrating – feels like my son is taking a knife to a gun fight because the school confiscated his gun and sent him off with a knife for the fight. *</p>

<p>If I were you, I would copy off some examples of automatic scholarships that your son could have qualified for if his grades had been weighted. Then I’d ask how they could continue with a policy that unnecessarily is costing students thousands of dollars in scholarships. If necessary, I’d encourage other parents to do the same and ask the same question. </p>

<p>Is this a public or private school?</p>

<p>His school gives out letter grades like most other schools, but it doesn’t compute a GPA.</p>

<p>So, if you think his GPA is slight under 3.0, are you saying that he has a mix of As, Bs, and Cs, and if you gave each A a 4, each B a 3, and each C a 2, they would average to just under a 3.0? Are you including everything in his GPA (including PE and electives)? or just core subjects? </p>

<p>Does the school give minuses and pluses?</p>

38

<p>It is A, A-, B+ etc and we computed the gpa (required on some applications, but thankfully not on the common app) using 4.0 for A, 3.7 for A- etc. I’ve included everything, including PE and electives, because the one university where my son had to fill a GPA asked to self report gpa based on ALL courses. Most of the colleges son is applying to use the common app, which doesn’t ask for a GPA. We weren’t the first one to be frustrated by the school’s attitude, 'cos the school maintains that it is doing a great job of educating its students and that despite its approach to grading and reporting, students do get into top schools each year. As an immigrant educated outside of the US in a very different education system, I didn’t grasp the significance of this school’s approach to grading until the end of my son’s freshman year. But our son, who had already spent four years at that school, wanted to continue there for the next three years.</p>

<p>I don’t want to sidetrack the discussion on this thread; just wanted to understand how colleges/universities that are unfamiliar with the school’s grading/reporting system might view the discrepancy. Thanks for the info I have received so far.</p>