High GPA, decent MCAT: where should I apply?

<p>Hi everyone,
I will be applying for med school this upcoming cycle and just got my MCAT score back the other day and am starting to form a solid list of schools to apply to. I was hoping some of the veterans could chime in and help me out, especially when it comes to whether I should even apply to top 20 schools. </p>

<p>Stats:
-MCAT: 31Q (lowest subscore is a 9) not really considering a retake at this point because I doubt I would score higher than a 34.<br>
-cGPA: 3.9
-sGPA: 3.97
-Biology Major</p>

<p>Background:
-Minnesota Resident
-I am looking at schools in the midwest and northeast. The only schools in the south I am considering would be Duke or Emory. The only schools in the west I am considering are Stanford and Colorado.
-not a URM or collegiate athlete</p>

<p>EC's:
-one summer of clinical research, publication currently pending. one year of biomedical research, publication likely. Will be doing more biomedical research this summer full time and a poster/publication should result.
-Significant/unique clinical experience on a Indian Reservation during a summer.<br>
-Hospital volunteering in the ER since freshman year (with patient interaction)
-60+ hours of physician shadowing including family doc.
-Extensive non clinical volunteering to undeserved communities in my college's metro area.
-Leadership experience being a biology lab TA, youth soccer referee, Captain on several intramural sports teams, and officer of a club.
-Major hobby is sports: most notably cross country skiing (skied a half marathon) and other team sports such as soccer.
-involved in various other EC's that aren't that impressive</p>

<p>Schools I am considering in no particular order:
-Minnesota (only in state school)
-All of the Catholic medical schools (Creighton, Loyola, Georgetown, St. Louis)
-Mayo Clinic (first choice/dream med school)
-Nebraska (have connections to this state)
-MC of Wisconsin
-Colorado (have some connections to this state)
-Dartmouth
-Emory
-Duke
-Stanford
-Rochester
-Northwestern
-Stanford
-maybe George Washington, Albany, Temple, or Rosalind Franklin for some more "safeties"</p>

<p>Do I have any chance for a top 10 or top 20 school? Are there any schools I missed that might be good fits? How does the list in general look so far? Also, I am definitely leaning toward clinical medicine rather than academic medicine so prestige isn't that important to me but is a factor. I am also trying to avoid schools that are notoriously expensive like tufts, even though I would love to go to school in boston. </p>

<p>Thanks in advance for your help!</p>

<p>I would apply to 12 medical schools where you think you have a realistic shot. After that, you can apply to as many others as you like – including schools like Duke, Stanford, whatever.</p>

<p>What you’re going to want to do is buy an MSAR and a US News. Find medical schools that: (1) Don’t have abysmally low admissions percentages (this removes, for example, Georgetown); (2) Have an average MCAT among matriculants no higher than a 32 or MAYBE 33 if you’re feeling like a gamble; (3) You would be willing to attend; (4) Don’t favor in-state students, or at least still have a high admissions percentage for out-of-staters.</p>

<p>Once you’ve gotten twelve schools that fit those four criteria, you can apply wherever else you wish, but I’d say no more than eighteen schools total.</p>

<p>I remember Kristin mentioning that some top med schools immediately eliminate anyone with a sub 10 subscore in any section. </p>

<p>Which schools are those? No point in this student applying to those.</p>

<p>I think Georgetown was one.</p>

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<p>There’s a LOT of them, but so far as I know there’s no way to know precisely which ones they are.</p>

<p>Yeah mom2, I remember saying that too, but now I can’t remember which schools they were–and I don’t think I was working off anything official, just what I had noticed among me and my friends who applied to the same schools. It could have been something altogether different, but it seemed like MCAT was the common thread. </p>

<p>pccool, sift through the 2010-2011 thread–the parts in like, end of July through mid-August, I think. It seems like you and I may have similar enough candidacies that you could really use the advice people gave me–and I bet they’d give you similar advice on this thread (for example, that’s exactly what Mike told me!). </p>

<p>Here are my thoughts on schools where I applied that you’re applying to also. Keep in mind I’m just one person and far from an expert on any of this stuff…I applied last cycle and I’m looking forward to being an M1 this summer. </p>

<p>I’d be happy to expand on any of this!</p>

<p>For your reference, 3.8/30S/big state school</p>

<p>Jesuit schools (St Louis, Creighton, Georgetown, Loyola) applied to all 4, no interviews: </p>

<p>I am Catholic, I’m from a very Catholic city (St Louis), and I went to Catholic schools through high school. I think each of these schools has a wonderful philosophy and I really liked everything they emphasized in terms of service, compassion, leadership, faith, etc in addition to medicine. I had terrible luck with them though! </p>

<p>It seems like Georgetown is much more competitive than its scores and GPA would indicate (Mike has a few theories about this), and SLU seems to value high MCAT scores (my friends who had interviews had 10 or better on each subsection, and I think my 9 subscore is what kept me out of SLU). </p>

<p>I don’t know what went “wrong” with Creighton. A good friend of mine (also Catholic, from St Louis, an all-around great candidate, etc) went to Northwestern for med school (and had a lot of great interviews) and never heard anything from Creighton after he applied. He suspects that it’s because Creighton knew about his other big interviews and figured he wouldn’t bother coming there, so why bother interviewing him? As if he were overqualified or something. I don’t know if that’s true, but I do know that I was expecting to hear from them and didn’t (I had some great interviews too), and my friends with similar stats to me, but who had fewer interviews than I did, also heard back from Creighton. Which is a long way to say, I think Creighton’s unpredictably picky about giving out interviews. </p>

<p>Don’t know what to say about Loyola, other than I have a few friends who go there or are going there next year and they seem thrilled. The thing that turned me off about Loyola (and actually, I almost didn’t apply) is that their curriculum seems very…archaic? Too traditional? Not very flexible? So you might check into that.</p>

<p>Mayo interviewed, currently on alternate list: </p>

<p>Mayo is a special place, and as a Minnesota kid I’m sure you know. Mayo seems to be looking for students who bring a unique flavor to the table–students who are mature, who have had a wide variety of life experiences, and who have a unique hook. If there’s one thing that made the Mayo applicants stand out to me, it’s that every single one of them had done something absolutely incredible–there was no such thing as a kid who “just” excelled at “normal” stuff. We’re talking a kid who went to Julliard and is single-handedly rehabilitating elementary schools in Harlem or a guy who grew up on an Indian reservation and has clocked thousands of hours volunteering in their clinics, teaching Native Americans about health care, and advocating form their rights in the Arizona government. The Mayo group clearly had developed a passion for something and have made strides to fix a problem they’ve seen. Leadership, service, and compassion are definitely musts for Mayo. </p>

<p>Their curriculum is really unique and flexible. Their class size is tiny. You would get tons of attention from some of the world’s best clinicians and be working in some truly incredible facilities with patients who have diseases no one else can solve. I met a patient on the bus on the way to Mayo, and I asked her why she goes there. “It’s simple. I want the most brilliant doctors to solve my medical problems. And the most brilliant ones in the world at are the Mayo Clinic.”</p>

<p>Who am I kidding, I’d go there in a heartbeat.</p>

<p>(Note that Mayo doesn’t have a secondary, so your primary and your LORs will really need to shine if you’re going to impress them!)</p>

<p>Duke interviewed, currently on alternate list: </p>

<p>Another really unique, forward-thinking curriculum. I think you can learn a lot about Duke from their website and from their alumni magazine (check out the article “Capable of Brilliance” which is about how Duke selects medical students). Durham’s a great town. Duke’s medical center is absolutely gorgeous, state of the art, etc. I was very impressed by the students I met there, and they seemed very down to earth (less quirky than the Mayo crowd, not as competitive as the Northwestern crowd). I’m not exactly sure what Duke’s looking for, but I certainly had an incredible time interviewing there and learning more about it. Duke’s philosophy felt a little like Mayo’s to me (another applicant interviewing with me had interviewed at Mayo too, and he agreed) but seemed less…pervasive, I guess. Bottom line is, if you like the way Mayo works, and the things Mayo values in education, I’m not surprised at all that you like Duke. If you’re applying to one, I’d apply to the other. But FYI, Duke’s secondary is absolutely brutal.</p>

<p>Northwestern interviewed, withdrew application (but withdrew incorrectly, and was eventually rejected): </p>

<p>Northwestern’s curriculum is very similar to my school’s in that they both really emphasize problem-based learning (which I think would work well for me). Northwestern’s facilities are brand new, shiny, and beautiful. Feinberg’s in the heart of downtown Chicago, so if you think you could live in a huge metropolis, Northwestern might be for you. In the end, I decided I didn’t like the big city, I didn’t like the research focus (I too want to do clinical medicine), and I didn’t like how competitive it felt (out of my 4 interviews, it had by far the most competitive and least collaborative environment–and I want collaborative), so I withdrew. </p>

<p>Duke, Mayo, and Northwestern have unique curricula, and I think it takes a certain kind of student to really thrive there. I think Rochester and Durham had very similar “feels” and I thought Chicago was just way too much for me. I thought the Mayo applicants were mature and quirky, the Duke applicants smart and down to earth, and the Northwestern applicants competitive and sophisticated. If I were doing it all over again, I’d definitely apply to the trio!</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>PS: the schools I applied to were Boston, Creighton, Drexel, Duke, Georgetown, Harvard, Loyola, Mayo, Missouri, Northwestern, SLU, Tufts, UVA. I interviewed at Missouri, Mayo, Northwestern, and Duke. When I was accepted to Missouri in December, I withdrew from the ones I hadn’t heard from (had already been rejected by Georgetown) except Harvard (which later rejected me!).</p>

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<p>This is like asking “what went wrong” at the slot machine. What went wrong is that Creighton has a very low admissions percentage. :)</p>

<p>Truthfully, you are probably a weak applicant for top 20 schools. I think your strategy should be to apply to 10-15 schools ranked 30 and lower on the US News rankings (I think your target schools are low and mid tier schools). You can apply to as many Stanfords as you’d like but you should have a solid amount of schools you can realistically get into.</p>

<p>You might stand a chance at Emory (ranked 20). Its average gpa is a 3.66 and its average MCAT score is around a 33. Your gpa should make up your mcat for this school.</p>

<p>*Jesuit schools (St Louis, Creighton, Georgetown, Loyola) applied to all 4, no interviews: </p>

<p>I am Catholic, I’m from a very Catholic city (St Louis), and I went to Catholic schools through high school. I think each of these schools has a wonderful philosophy and I really liked everything they emphasized in terms of service, compassion, leadership, faith, etc in addition to medicine. I had terrible luck with them though!*</p>

<p>:(</p>

<p>Doesn’t bode well for my son, but he’ll still apply. He’ll be from a far less-Catholic city/state, so maybe that will help a tiny bit.</p>

<p>That said…do they ask if you’re Catholic and went to Catholic K-12?</p>

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<p>Why is this the case? I applied to Georgetown (it was my first choice) for undergrad this past year and was rejected. I was hoping to try again when i apply for med school, but have read about how people with stats that fall into G-town’s range, have considered it to have been a waste of money.</p>

<p>It’s just inordinately, wildly disproportionately popular. Location, heritage, marketing, Patrick Ewing, I don’t know. I think the big thing is that it’s a famous university which doesn’t have very high MCAT scores, so tons and tons of kids think they’re “in range.”</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1121822-usnwr-10-medical-schools-lowest-admission-rate.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1121822-usnwr-10-medical-schools-lowest-admission-rate.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Thanks for saving me the $130 application fee :)</p>

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<p>Nope! But I mentioned it in my secondaries. Each of them asked a variation of “Why us?” and a small but noticeable part of my answer was “because you’re Jesuit, and I understand the value of a Jesuit education”</p>

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<p>That’s great advice, and I’m so happy I more or less took it (had fewer than their recommended 12, but also really loved a school I had a great shot at, and now will be attending!). The challenge for you will be to find schools that fit into your range MCAT-wise–your GPA’s fine no matter where you apply. Finding schools that you want to apply to that have reasonable admissions rates and an average MCAT <33 is somewhat challenging. </p>

<p>I’d make sure you only apply to schools you really really really love, because chances are you won’t get into most of them–you may get into more than one, but even that’s pretty unlikely (which is so hard for us high achieving students to grasp! But it’s reality!) So if you make it a point to only apply to schools you really like, then you win regardless of which one accepts you. (That’s not to say you can’t like some more than others–you certainly can, and I think you should. I just mean, don’t apply to a school in New York if you refuse to live in a city, regardless of how its MCAT score looks.)</p>

<p>You might check into the ones that I applied to. I’d also be happy to email you the excel spreadsheet I put together to analyze all the numbers, with the numbers from those schools already plugged in!</p>

<p>Wow, thanks for all of the great and thoughtful responses everyone. This is very helpful. </p>

<p>As for the schools that reject people with a subscore of 9 or lower on the MCAT, I find it kind of frustrating how much weight they put on it considering it’s one subscore from one test from one day. I understand it’s one of the only ways to divide the applicants, but seriously, dismissing an entire application because of one subscore seems a bit outrageous. Tis life I guess. </p>

<p>Anyway, I am definitely going to take the advice to apply broadly to 12 or so target schools. Luckily, my undergrad is Creighton and the med school has been known to give extra consideration to their own students, so hopefully I can at least get an acceptance there. After reading up on my MSAR yesterday, I think I may add a few state schools that are nice to out of staters like Iowa and Vermont and some other privates. What do people think of Boston U and Tufts? They seem to be in my range academically yet they have a really low acceptance rate because of their huge application pools. </p>

<p>Kristin, thanks for your thorough response. Your school by school analysis was awesome. By the way, I would love to get that excel sheet from you. I can PM you my email address.</p>

<p>The emphasis on your lowest subscore is a reflection of medical school admissions – and in fact even medicine – in general: balance is more important than excelling at any one thing. It is most important to be good at everything; being great at one thing is nice, but won’t make up for deficiencies.</p>

<p>Boston University is precisely the sort of school that I don’t think people should be applying to. It’s a popular region and a famous university that lots of students apply to thinking that the low average MCAT scores give them a chance. And they overlook the absurdly low admissions percentage. (If memory serves, Tufts’ percentage is much more reasonable.)</p>

<p>Creighton has a ridiculously low admissions percentage. Let’s say it’s 5% or whatever. Your numbers are around average for them, but maybe they do favor their own a little bit. So … you might have… I don’t know, double the odds? That would be, what, 10%? This still isn’t the sort of thing you should bank on.</p>

<p>In general, start with the presumption that you’re not going to apply to any OOS publics. If after parsing the numbers very carefully you think there’s a couple that are worth an application, you can go for it. But pay very close attention to the state-by-state breakdowns.</p>

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<p>There are basically two ways to get rejected from medical school. The first is to do poorly on the MCAT. You’re right on the border there. The second is to pick your application list poorly. If you handle this end of things well, I don’t see any reason why you should get rejected. But you also can’t afford to be too optimistic at this point. Our goal is to get you into a medical school. Let’s play it very conservative here and make sure that we get you in somewhere.</p>