High GPA/low LSAT?

Graduate School Law School
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<p>Just starting the "interested observer" process...my DS is finishing UG (at a "lower" Ivy) and has just taken the LSAT...he has a very high GPA (3.9+), but a rather disappointing first LSAT score: 165.</p>

<p>He plans to retake the LSAT.</p>

<p>Would love to hear your perspective(s) on the potential outcomes...he feels confident he can do better on his second attempt at the LSAT (that was his pattern w/standardized tests in high school, too...he improved his SAT by 70 points on his second attempt)...</p>

<p>He tells me that most of the N-14 law schools no longer look at more than one LSAT score; they just look at the one the applicant submits. Is this your experience, too?</p>

<p>He has not finalized his list of schools he'd like to attend...but is inclined towards the big city schools (NY, Chicago, Washington, DC) in the "national 14"...he definitely wants an N-14 school. He has not settled on a particular area of the law in which he's interested...he believes his law school experience will help him determine that)...it seems to him (and to me, with much less current knowledge) that he has a realistic shot at acceptance at one or more of these schools, particularly if he improves his LSAT score.)</p>

<p>He does want to go to law school full time, and to start in the fall of 2009.</p>

<p>Both his father and I are lawyers w/JDs from an N-14 school, but both of us took LSATs and attended law school so long ago that I'm inclined to believe that our (very different) experiences are basically irrelevant.</p>

<p>So...what do you think DS will need to achieve on his second LSAT to have a realistic shot at the NY, Chicago and Washington, DC N-14 schools? (Reminder: his GPA is in excess of 3.9). And what kind of schools can he aspire to if he keeps his 165 score from his first attempt?</p>

<p>Thanks for the input...as is usual, he's calmer and more knowledgeable than I am...I believe everything he's telling me...but I found the CC input when we were going thru the UG application process very helpful at staving off my tendency to "bug him" w/questions and comments...and presume I will find it equally useful this go-round!</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

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<p>Currently his best bet would be Boalt Hall, or Berkeley School of Law it might be called now.. not sure if they have changed the name yet. Out of the T14 they weigh the GPA more heavily than any other school, so he might be able to slide with that LSAT. Their median acceptance stats are 167 on the LSAT and 3.79 GPA, their 75th percentile for GPA is a 3.90 and the 25th percentile for LSAT is a 163, so he would certainly have a good shot at getting in in my opinion given their heavy emphasis on GPA. Other than that I don't see much of a shot at any of the other T14 schools with a 165. To answer your question about what they do with multiple LSAT's, it varies, but most T14 schools look at the two and average them out, heres the most detailed list I've found: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/522182-most-frequently-asked-questions-concerning-law-school-answered.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/522182-most-frequently-asked-questions-concerning-law-school-answered.html&lt;/a> (about halfway down the page it lists the approach T14's take to multiple LSAT's). To have a legitimate shot at NYU, Columbia, and Chicago he'd need to get around a 170 (maybe a little higher for Columbia), whether that'd be an average of the two or just the top one, it depends on the school and perhaps on how good of an excuse he can come up with for scoring low the first time around. With a 169 he should would have a good shot at Cornell, Northwestern and Georgetown given his high GPA. As far as the top 3 go, I don't think there is any chance, unless he gets a 180 on his next LSAT, they will see both scores, average them out and it will be to low. For him not knowing what type of law he wants to practice, there is nothing wrong with that at all, that's what law school is for, 66% or so probably have no clue what type of law they're interested in upon entering.</p>

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<p>Also, check out lawschoolnumbers.com they give graphs with stats of each school, but don't get too caught up in those, most seem to be skewed slightly higher than the actual averages. For actual averages, go to Official</a> Guide and do an 'ABA Quick Data Search'</p>

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<p>Hi IMom- I am just another mom who spends way too much time reading these boards (including LSD and Top law schools)
Unfortunately- from all the anecdotal info I have read on these boards, I would not count on a 165 LSAT gaining admission to a T-14 school. The good news is a 165/3.9 would probably get him into a T-25 and maybe get some $ too.
As my d got a 167, I follow the bits of info re: admission for kids who got mid 160's on the LSAT--
This cycle, there was a Cornell grad who got off the Harvard waitlist with a 3.9/ 166. (I thought only HYP would get in with a 166, but I later read that she was from Cornell)
( I really did follow the saga of kids on LSD/Top Law schools way too much)<br>
I followed Cornell trends a bit more than the other schools, as
1) my d was an undergrad at Cornell
2) felt she has best chance of T-14 admittance at Cornell with a 167 LSAT.
But I gotta tell you, even at Cornell it's tough to get in with a 165. Generally speaking, a 166 really does seem to be the lower end of T-14 acceptance.
If your son is really set on a T-14 acceptance, it is probably worth his while to take the exam again.
I really wouldn't categorize a 165 as a low LSAT score- it's still around the top 92%.</p>

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<p>OP: Sent you a PM. You can access your inbox from the upper-right corner when you're logged in.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the replies...it so helps to have a place to read what other people think, and to comment myself--without having to subject my son to my "mental meanderings." I should say I'm extremely proud of him, and want to be supportive (rather than a source of yet more stress)...I'm certain he'll do fine, however this odyssey plays out...but I really appreciate being able to come here to vent my "craziness" rather than having to hold it it, or have it spill over on to him!</p>

<p>He'll retake the LSAT in October...if he performs as he did on the SAT, his score will go up significantly...if he keeps his 165 (give or take a point), he'll still have lots of options...</p>

<p>Good luck to everyone in law school (nothing in the world felt so good as finishing law school!...I take that back: finishing the bar exam felt better...but it was a close call!)...</p>

<p>Thanks again...</p>