High Income, but Can't Afford College!

Paying for College
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<p>Sigh. No reason to get irritated with a teenager who wants to go to a big name school, something with name recognition, in her case, one of the big OOS publics. I have one in the same situation. SUNYs just don’t have the panache, neither in nor out of state, is the reality. Parents make too much to qualify for fin aid, are set up in a way they don’t want to pay more than about $25K a year (which would nicely cover a SUNY even as a boarder), and the student is a respectable student but just not way up there in the stats to likely get sizeable merit awards, especially from the big name schools that s/he wants. So s/he’s trying to check out all of the alternatives if there is just anyway possible. </p>

<p>I wish there were too. $50K+ for a UMich, UWisc, UVA, if my student could even get accepted is out of our range. $40K for PennState only doable if he can kick some money in there too, so possible. Alabama has his interest and that would really make it nice for us. But, yes, he likes the schools with that name recognition. Too bad we don’t live in one of those states.</p>

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<p>“Or whether they just like their present lifestyle and what it costs.”</p>

<p>Or think that few/no schools are worth an extra $100K (at least among the ones that the OP is considering) and that that money would be better saved for their retirement or as a financial reserve in case of job loss or other emergencies/tragedies. Only on CC do I see some people blithely assume that all jobs are stable or that the economy and medical emergencies don’t affect people and that the trade-off is between $100K spent on a kid’s education or on luxury car/Birkin bags (rather than a trade-off between a better brand-name & network vs. more serious stuff like a financial cushion in case of financial emergencies). </p>

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<p>I also just want to point out that a some of the comments in middle comments are predicated upon OP raising their SAT score by a lot. The OP has a 1700 and thinks by taking two prep classes they can raise it to 2100. I want to comment on that for a moment.</p>

<p>I know that some - many, even - students are able to raise their SAT score - by a lot, even. I am assuming that OP went into the original SAT with little to no prep. So some prep will help. But it’s very unlikely that it’ll raise the score by 400 points.</p>

<p>The College Board claims that intensive coaching only makes small average differences in test scores - 15-20 points on the verbal and 20-30 points on the math (35-50 points total). I think that’s a deliberately small estimate. FairTest reports on a small sample of students who did an intensive prep class (30-35 hours over the course of 4 weeks, which is about 8 hours a week, which is a lot of time). Most students made score increases on the math section of 70-100 points.</p>

<p>I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. There are several other independent studies that have found that the average jump in points on the entire test, after intensive SAT prep, ranges anywhere from 30-100 points. These were done pre-writing section, but if we multiply by 1.5, that’s still only about an average 45-150 points on the SAT.</p>

<p>Another thing to note is that it’s a lot easier to go from a 1700 to a 1900 than it is to go from a 1900 to a 2100. At 1700, you’re still right around the average or slightly above, so going from average to above average is easier - there are a lot of mistakes and misconceptions to fix. Going from 1900 to 2100 is more difficult - there are fewer questions that you can get right from there on out, and the things to fix are usually more difficult.</p>

<p>The last point is that I don’t think test prep is additive like that - that it’ll make your score jump big every time. I used to teach SAT prep for a major SAT prep company, and the thing is once you learn the techniques and tricks that test prep companies hawk in one intensive class, taking another one is kind of a waste of time and money. It’s not like there are different tricks or something. Every company pretty much teaches the same thing (look at Kaplan’s and Princeton Review’s books to compare). I’m not saying that there’s nothing you can do to improve your score in the upper ranges - I started with upper range scores and still managed to improve them through study - but I don’t think it’s the kind of improvement that a test prep company can give you, AND it won’t be large. This will be intensive, focused kind of improvement that you can do on your own by identifying your weaknesses and working away assiduously at them, or by working with a freelance tutor (probably who scored very high themselves) who can do that for you (and not all tutors will be skilled enough to do this).</p>

<p>the tl;dr is that I think you should look for merit scholarship opportunities either based on your current score or based on a score of around 1800-1900, recognizing that even this 200-point increase would be fantastic and statistically on the high end of score increases.</p>

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<p>""“My grandmother is an immigrant so she has not retirement funds to pay for living expenses. Also, no one else in my family can afford to provide for her so if the other option is leaving her in a shelter, I’m not sure taking care of her is a choice…”""</p>

<p>then have her live with your family. that would cost little. other sibs could kick in a 100 a month. no one should have to provide rent/etc in this situation. she can have your room. you will be in college.</p>

145

<p>With that income and stats, OP pretty much has zero chance at financial aid and merit scholarships.
HOWEVER, OP has a decent college fund of 25k per year.
I suggest you, the OP, to check out the thread about colleges where the net cost of attendance is <25k year, even for OOS. See if you can get in.</p>

146

<p>
[QUOTE: Sugarbubbletea wrote: We have a fairly high house hold income and quite a bit in savings. $200,000> per year. However, my family cannot afford to pay $50,000 per year for college. How can I maximize the amount of need based aid I can I get?
[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>If your family has an income that’s $200k/year and a large savings account, I don’t think you’ll qualify for any need based aid. The reality of college financing is that if your parents are unwilling to pay the cost of attendance (after subtracting the amount of merit aid you qualify for), then you either have to take federal loans (up to the $5500-7500/year limit), get a job to make up the difference, and/or choose less expensive options. Have you checked the thread for schools that offer guaranteed merit aid? That’s likely your best bet.</p>

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<p>The fact of the matter is that the parents in this family can afford to send the student away to an instate public, any of the SUNYs. So no big crisis here… Kid can go to college. Private college, OOS public, that’s a whole other story, and OP is really in an eviable position of knowing college is doable, but striving for more options which will take effort and luck. </p>

<p>I agree that getting those test scores up to a range for substantial merit money is going to be a long shot. Substantial merit money, which is what is needed here for what the OP wants, i difficult to come by without pretty high stats.</p>

148

<p>You know, whenever I stumble upon these threads where the student is from a family that can afford 25k-35k but doesn’t qualify for enough aid and is worrying about what to do, I tend to laugh, especially when that student just wants to go to expensive schools like Emerson or OOS publics. America has SO many colleges–and that’s barely scratching the surface. There is a whole world out there (ever heard of Mount Allison University in Canada? How about the liberal arts colleges in the Netherlands?). With those resources and careful research, a lot is possible.</p>

<p>Anyway, if you want to get out of NY that badly, even though you have such fantastic options (CUNYs/SUNYs), it’s good to look into midwestern and southern schools that don’t cost as much. I tend to think that almost all schools in the US can offer superb instruction in writing and editing because of the high supply of qualified instructors. Journalism is more specialized, yes, but with the poor market for it I have to question if a degree in journalism in itself would give you any advantage.</p>

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<p>So all im getting from this thread is that only elite and low income can afford colleges that are not public in state colleges. </p>

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<p>We are not. “Elite” or “low income”. Both of our kids went to expensive private universities. Both parents were employed full time, and we made a commitment to fund college costs using one of our incomes entirely. We also were very conservative spenders.</p>

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<p>So all im getting from this thread is that only elite and low income can afford colleges that are not public in state colleges. </p>

<p>Then you are not reading very carefully, RedEyeJedi. The OP’s family has an income of $200K a year. That is way up there in earnings. Look it up. So they are not likely to qualify for financial aid–they still might with two kids in college and if out of pocket medical expenses should be taken into account under professional judgement. </p>

<p>The way the formulas work, those families with incomes and assets over certain amounts are expected to pay towards college. The federal govt and the state of NY pretty much assures that no one cannot go to college due lack of money, but that assurance does not cover room , board, discretionary expenses, and does have levels of responsibilities of payment. No it is nor all free. </p>

<p>The OP’s family can afford about mid twentyK a year. There are options for the OP at that dollar amount. But not likely for financial aid. There is a point at which families are expected to contribute. </p>

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<p>@RedEyeJedi‌ you need to realize that low income students have very few options unless they are extremely high performers. And that doesn’t even help at OOS public Us which mostly reserve their $ for in-state students. As is the case in most instances, if you want someone to help you a student needs to stand out. The best way to do that is with high grades and scores.</p>

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<p>@RedEyeJedi‌
False. Have you not seen the thread about out of state colleges where the net cost of attendance is less than $25,000 per year?</p>

<p><a href=“VERY LOW COST OOS COA universities......less than $25k COA for everything! - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1651944-very-low-cost-oos-coa-universities-less-than-25k-coa-for-everything-p1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Very low income students tend to be limited to local state options unless they have high stats and grades and can qualify for heavy duty merit awards that will cover pretty much the whole tab or get accepted to a school that will give a lot of aid. Most schools do not meet full need for most of their students, and when one looks at whose need they do fulfill 100%, it often turns out to be those with very little need. Merit aid is nearly always integrated with need so it can be frustrating to get large merit award, and then lose out on school aid if the need is met by the merit award. It’s not easy getting need met. </p>

<p>Also even the most generous schools require some hefty student contributions which can be onerous for some kids from low income homes. </p>

<p>Anyone envying those with low income status can ask their parents to stop working and live on the amounts needed to qualifying for financial aid. It’s not so possible to do the reverse. But doubtful there will be any takers to get aid that way.</p>

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<p>@cptofthehouse Could end up being cheaper in the long run… I will consider your proposition. </p>

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<p>@RedeyeJedi, you’re a fool. My kid is one of those $0 EFC kids. We used to be upper middle class, but 5 years ago job loss, illness, divorce all took its toll. We went through foreclosure. My kid did have elite college choices, because she has high stats. but her only options were big merit or meets need school. She took the merit aid. If she didn’t have the stats, she’d be commuting to the local U or a CC, and gasoline would be a major expense.</p>

<p>I would suggest that you, instead of wishing you were poor, try live as though you were until your kids are out of college. Sell the house and the cars. Move to a smaller house in a lesser neighborhood and but used cars. That way you’ll have saved the money and options for their schooling no matter what their stats are. Get used to no more vacations, unless it’s camping,or visiting relatives. No more tutoring. No special activities for the kids. No new clothes for you or the kids. Forget braces, and hope they don’t lose or break their glasses. Dinner and a movie will be McDonald’s and the $3 dollar movie theater. </p>

<p>Go live a life a where necessities become luxuries and pray that no one gets sick or anything breaks down. The dentist, that’s a luxury I can’t afford. Too bad, for my D, her wisdom teeth should come out. My refrigerator and my laptop broke this week and all the bills are due. The money is not there. I have to figure out what to do, which is probably to buy a used refrigerator and hope it works longer than the 30 day guarantee. </p>

<p>So go ahead, purposely make yourself poor so your kids can get financial aid. Fool. I’d rather have the 25k a year and the nice life, than the financial aid and my lifestyle.</p>

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<p>We’re not really just knee-jerk getting irritated with a teen with big dreams. Rather, it seems she doesn’t know much about costs, NPCs, how finaid looks at income/resources and discretionary spending. We don’t know that she even glanced at a related website or book yet. And there are many like that- kids and parents. </p>

<p>I know one poster here does have older, dependent relatives living with the family. And clearly at least a few do have some trying financial (or other) positions. Not just about college costs, but month-to-month. That is so different than just saying, oh, maybe they prefer to save for a rainy day or retirement. Or, oh, just reduce your income voluntarily. </p>

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<p>We are a family that will not get need based aid. But my DD’s have applied to schools that are either in-state or lower cost OOS, or apply to schools where they can get merit money.
Also you could start the first 2 years at a Community college and then go to State U for the last two.</p>

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<p>@RedEyeJedi‌
I am a student with 0 EFC, and trust me, YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE IN MY SHOES.
I cannot attend any of the state’s flagships, and my options are limited to either the local community college, schools that award tremendous merit aid - on CC they’re pretty famous -, or elite private schools that are total crapshoots even for my stats (granted, they’re crapshoots for anyone’s stats…). In the latter two cases, I’d still have to pay non-trivial amounts of money; I could afford some if I work year-long, others will require me to take out federal loans on top of that.</p>

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<p>OP has vanished.
In any case, I agree that the 1700->1900->2100 plan doesn’t sound realistic; while going from top 25% to top 15% is doable, going from top 15% to top2% is unrealistic. I might happen but that can’t be expected or used for merit aid or admission predictions.
So merit aid research should focus on schools that will award merit for a 1900.</p>