<p>hopefulaunt, my two girls were in a very similar situation to your niece. (I’m not related to my girls). By the time they were in their 2nd & 3rd years of high school, their father had stopped providing food for them. Their grades ranged from F’s to A’s. The younger of the two was suspended from high school many times. Neither of their parents had the financial means nor the desire to help(out of 7 siblings they were the only two to graduate high school). I doubt if either had high PSAT scores. But they both managed to go on to college and were able to get scholarships,grants and loans to make it work. So it is possible. But I think they were able to be declared independent from their parents - social services became involved while they were in high school and they moved in with a “grandmother” who received money from the state to support the girls. One girl spent a year at community college before transferring to a 4 year college. The younger girl (the one who was in more trouble while in high school) went directly to a 4 year college and managed more scholarships than the older girl. The younger girl also left her grandmothers after less than a year, was on the street for a while before ending up living with an older sister. Their parents are no longer involved in their lives in any way.<br>
best of luck to your niece.</p>
<p>if she becomes a National Merit Semi Finalist and is interested in combining a merit scholarship with performing arts and is willing to look far from home have her look at Arizona State U.They have a great scholarship for NMF that is not need based (no FAFSA needed) and a stellar School of the Arts (you didnt specify what her talent is).If she has a god guidance counselor relationship encourage the counselor to look into ASU for her (some east coast/midwest counselors arent familiar with ASU’s benefits) oor maybe you could help her do the research? The School of the Arts is named the Herberger school and its on the main campus in Tempe.Az which is a Phoenix suburb.</p>
<p>Dysfunctional parents … ugh. Clearly need-based aid is in this girl’s best interest. The fact that the parents actively obstruct this means the girl needs a competent advocate, and she needs that advocate ASAP.</p>
<p>Is there a religious leader who knows the family who can help intervene? Our local Boys and Girls Club, United Way, Jewish Federation, etc. all have relationships with the local clergy who can access private scholarships funds or generous private donors for kids in dicey circumstances. The money is generally not meant to substitute for Financial Aid (a shame in this case) but is often there for books, lab fees, travel back and forth, laptop, etc. and in most cases is renewable for four years with no paperwork required (beyond a letter from the registrar that the kid is indeed enrolled.) A couple of thousand dollars a year from a private donor via a clergyperson can really help a kid if the parents are truly clueless.</p>
<p>And on that theme… are there other grownups on the scene (clergy, social worker, etc.) who know the situation who can prod the guidance counselor into action???</p>
<p>What particularly concerns me about this situation is that although the girl is obviously smart, she doesn’t seem to be researching college alternatives for herself. I know many adults my age as well as adults whom I met when they were in high school or college who came from highly dysfunctional families who actively tried to block the students’ aspirations for being the first in their family to go to college.</p>
<p>None of the women whom I know had the kind of scores that the girl in this thread has. Yet all of the women moved heaven and earth to get themselves to college. This includes one who took various buses 15 miles to meet face to face with the lone shop owner in her neighborhood to beg him for a job – something that he did give her.</p>
<p>I think for the girl to go to college, she’ll have to do much more to help herself. That may include her taking a gap year or two, earning money, putting it aside for college, and developing maturity along the way.</p>
<p>There certainly is enough info available now – including on the Internet – for a smart girl to learn that college is a possibility for her even without the help of her family.</p>
<p>especially for a National Merit student… Generous scholarships are available.</p>
<p>
I think she needs to contact these schools if she becomes NMSF and NMF. They may or may not contact her - she should be proactive on this matter. If she researches the schools, and there are a couple she likes best, she should put those on the form she got from the counselor.</p>
<p>University of Arizona used to have a full scholarship for NMF’s and they have a good drama department. Northstarmom is correct in that the girl should be motivated to follow do a bit of her own college research, but maybe she is so beaten down by her family situation that she doesn’t even dare to have hope. A few options presented by her Aunt may well inspire her to get going on pursuing her dreams of attending college. My son got very motivated once he knew he was a NMSF contender… it opened doors he had not even considered the year before and he took full advantage of the opportunities that presented. Perhaps the OP’s niece can read through the list of schools offering NMSF scholarships and see which ones have performing arts majors, then contact those schools she would be interested in attending. Her parents may be willing to fill out the paperwork (assuming they are not hiding something illegal from IRS) once they see it will help their daughter pay for college.</p>
<p>Everyone, keep in mind that the girl may not be a NMS finalist or semifinalist. During spring of junior year, students learn if they are in the top 50,000 junior year scorers on the PSAT. That means, that come the fall, they’ll either be named National Merit Commended or a NMS semifinalist. What they are named depends on the score breakdown in their state. The OP has said that the girl’s PSAT is on the borderline of what has been semifinalist in her state before. </p>
<p>To make finalist depends on grades, SAT scores, essay, activities, and recommendations. Grades, though, do count a great deal, and I think it’s unlikely that a girl who has Fs on her transcript will make finalist. </p>
<p>There’s a good chance that the girl won’t qualify for National Merit scholarships. If her parents won’t do financial aid paperwork or release tax information, she can’t get need-based aid unless she’s declared an independent minor, something that is extremely difficult to obtain.</p>
<p>The fact that the girl has been unmotivated to find out college options, and has been running with a bad crowd, and has very spotty grades despite being very bright indicates that she doesn’t yet have the maturity for college. She could, though, be a good candidate for a program like Americorps or for working a year or two, moving away from home, and then applying to college.</p>
<p>I agree with NSM–we had a semi-finalist who would get As in classes he liked and Ds in classes that didn’t interest him. He didn’t make it to the finalist round. </p>
<p>He ended up going to community college. If you get good grades at a CC, the high school record is often “forgiven.”</p>
<p>It’s so hard to accurately explain this family situation. For reasons that are unknown to me, the parents will not under any circumstances provide any information for the FAFSA forms. They do not behave emotionally towards their children as bad parents, but are completely dysfunctional and lead a life I can’t understand. Niece has suffered. At her core, she is a good kid. She has been overly influenced by older kids at times, which has caused her to do stupid things like run away - but it’s mostly because her dysfunctional parents have caused her to raise herself and she’s had no guidance. </p>
<p>I agree, I wish she were self-motivated and I know plenty of people (including neice’s mother) who “pulled herself up by her bootstraps” and made things happen. Niece is beaten down and feels hopeless, but her parents took her on a college visit and niece went to a college fair and she is suddenly very excited about college (but that still did not cause her to study for the upcoming SATs - although she did make dean’s list for the first time in her public school and she takes several AP courses). I wish niece would hound me every day for help, but instead, I am trying to provide her with beacons of hope, which thus far she has only moderately responded to.</p>
<p>I do not think niece would enter the military or do something like Americorps. I think she and her parents see her only path as college. They may consider something in the NYC area which would allow her to live at home and save on room and board. My greatest hope for niece would be for her to go to a college and become inspired by the environment and succeed. I think that is possible, it’s just trying to find a path. As she says “I know my parents love me, they are just “busy””. She has this false hope that because her parents are well-educated and seem to love her that they will somehow figure out a way to help her. I’ve already had to step in to pay (and register her at the last minute) for her AP tests, SATs and other expenses to keep niece functioning. I don’t see that the parents will do anything and I’m trying not to let niece fail. Niece is extraordinarily talented (acting) and very smart, I do feel confident that she could suceed if she were in the right environment. Are there full scholarships for acting without regard to need? Sadly, if her parents were willing to cooperate on the FAFSA, she probably would be entitled to need-based assistance. That is a lost cause, but I don’t want niece to think that she is a lost cause as well.</p>
<p>Maybe they should just pick the CUNY that seems to have the most of what she’s looking for, and take it from there. Certainly many people have used a CUNY education to better themselves, myself included.</p>
<p>Northstarmom was right on with her advice to have the girl do far more of this research on her own. After reading everything you have written, I am not sure that the girl really wants all of this. YOU do, and she may have been “excited” when confronted by a fair or a visit, but she still doesn’t prep for tests, etc. Step back, take a deep breath and make sure that this is really what the young lady wants and not what you want for her. It may be fun, something different that intrigues her when she confronts it, but she has to really WANT it and not just sit back and expect to have a full scholarship handed to her. You want to help her and that’s wonderful, but, you know, no kid is entitled to a full scholarship. I haven’t seen anything written about her willingness to get a job, now through next year and while she is in college. She has to step up, forget about the excuses and get her grades in order, accepting the fact that she has to do her part in this process. I can’t imagine that any college is going to hand a full ride, or even a major amount of money to anyone who has erratic grades and who isn’t working a PT job (and as much as she can during the summer ) to help out. I don’t mean this to sound harsh, but I’ve been there- parents who would not give any financial info at all (but that was back in the Stone Age!) and my D has had to deal with a father who not only wouldn’t provide info but who fights paying child support (another whole ugly story…). LurkNessMonster had a good idea with the CUNY schools. You say she likes music- what is her instrument? Queens College (CUNY) has a good vocal music program, so that would be a place to begin, and the tuition is affordable. Living in NY makes it difficult to have her go through “emancipation”, and I’m not sure that would even be an option since it seems that the girl’s parents appear to be actively parenting.They pay attention to their daughter’s behavior problems and have taken her to a college fair and on at least one visit- which makes me wonder where you fit in. The girl has had problems, no doubt about it, but some are of her own making and she needs to do something-starting yesterday- to convince a colleges that she IS worth taking a chance on and that she is willing to help herself. If she is looking at a major in any kind of music, she should have had performing experience- depending upon the variables,she may have to take a gap year or two even though she doesn’t want to. I am surprised that she, and her parents, nix anything other than going directly to college; again, I don’t intend to be mean, but I don’t see that the girl, nor her parents, are in any position to expect anything for free.The military may be out, just for personal beliefs, but Americorps would provide her some needed money and some time to get her act together and show responsibility. You state your “hope for her is to go to college and to become inspired…” and that you have “had to step in and register,etc”; the former is all backwards, she should be inspired to go to college and not expect to find a magic potion there and as for the latter,the girl should have done the registration, etc, on her own (good prep for the future when you won’t be there to do it) and, if there are financial problems, her HS has the needed paperwork for fee waivers for the SAT/ACT as well as the AP tests. She needs to stand up and do these things for herself.
You clearly care about this young lady, but I don’t think you are doing her a favor by choosing the destination, mapping the route and then paving it for her. Stop focusing on what she doesn’t have and look ahead. She needs to take stock of where she is now and to accept that if she wants to attend college she will have to take out loans, research small scholarships and apply for everything she is eligible for. Point her toward a public library, have her go to the Research Librarian and begin to look at schools, majors, costs and then begin looking at the scholarships. There are guides to colleges that will give her a place to begin, but, seriously, I really think that looking within the CUNY system is a great option. She could do much worse and pay far more! Tell her to get a job; don’t let her out of it because she doesn’t want to ask “Do you want fries with that?” when she’d rather be arranging window displays at Gucci- she needs money. Any college is going to question why they should be expected to give her money when she hasn’t bothered to put anything aside on her own. It’s not like she lives on the prarie, fifty miles from the nearest store- there is public transportation and places are hiring. It’s late, the most desirable jobs have gone to kids who got out there months ago and applied, but she can go online and walk in to as many places as she can.
Go and look at the Music Major forum on CC. Note that kids who have worked for years on their instrument, or voice, spent countless hours at lessons, practicing and performing AND who have top grades, are NOT being handed full scholarships anywhere. Many parents pay as much as they can and kids take out loans etc. My own D, a Vocal Performace major at the top of her class, has 2 PT jobs and her tuition/room/board etc will be paid from a combination of scholarships (from the school and others that she found within our community), grants, loans and work-study. She knows it won’t be easy, but she wants this more than anything and is willing to do whatever she has to do to achieve it. Now is the time for your niece to get started- don’t wait until the fall. If you have any questions re. a music major/schools, PM me and I’ll try to help you as best I can.</p>
<p>She is working a part-time job (and has been since she was 14) to pay for all of her own food and other expenses. She likes acting and years ago, was actually in a few commercials and was an understudy on Broadway. I agree with you completely, I wish she would take charge - but honestly, her parents are so full of excuses, that I think she has inherited some of the same qualities. I am hoping that if she gets in the right environment, she will thrive and pull herself out of this situation. </p>
<p>Her parents had not paid for her AP tests and did not even know about them, until the guidance counselor called and said that niece would not be able to take the AP tests unless the fees were paid. They had NO money at the time, so I paid the fees. They also paid no attention to SAT signups, and had no money, so I signed her up for the SATs. Because of the parents’ refusal to submit any forms, she can’t qualify for any financial assistance.</p>
<p>Bottom line, I agree with all of the harsh comments and wish that I could say them to niece (and have said them to parents). I think her parents have mental issues, but nothing so severe that they cannot take care of their family. The parents often have NO money at all. They have no bank accounts, no credit cards, no savings, no health care. They live in squalor and in other circumstances that are disasterous. Until I stepped in to try and help her, she was doing nothing at all towards college and had no hope whatsoever. Now she seems to have hope and is working harder in school, actually wants to visit college fairs and continues to work at her job. She is lucky to have a roof over her head, although that roof is threatened to be taken away by eviction on a regular basis. </p>
<p>I feel the same way you do Mezzo and that’s the way I treat my children. With niece, I am hopeful that some college will see her talent and intelligence and open their doors to her. Her parents and family situation are so messed up, I’m afraid that if she doesnt find a path, she will never get out of the situation the parents have placed her in. </p>
<p>I am not trying to make a decision for her - I’m just trying to find alternatives that she can pursue (on her own - other than that I will probably have to pay application fees). I want her to create her own opportunities - but I can see the handicap she has with her family situation and just want to point her in the direction of an opportunity. </p>
<p>Would niece be better off transferring back to the highly competitive performing arts school? She could do her senior year there. The person who was a bad influence has left the school, so that is no longer an issue. Would that make a difference in terms of her opportunity? </p>
<p>If niece is unable to secure a scholarship, she will attend a community college and I am hopeful that she will take the situation and turn herself into a success. What would really be best for her would be for her to have the chance to become her own person without the burden of her family situation - which is why a four year college seems like the best option. Once she takes the SATs the picture will be a little more clear.</p>
<p>Thank you for all of your help. I am so frustrated by this situation as well.</p>
<p>She has to buy her own food?!?!? Augh. My heart goes out to her.</p>
<p>Glad you have her best interests in mind. I think it may be worthwhile trying to help her find a lesser known college that will give her a full ride or close to it - not too difficult if she makes NM finalist - and helping her get away from this environment for a while.</p>
<p>Hopeful, I think you’re a remarkable person to step in the way you have.</p>
<p>I will offer a counter argument to what you’re hearing here… this kid needs to get out of where she is if she’s going to make a success of college. Living in the same dysfunctional household isn’t going to get her inspired by high achievers, it’s going to bring her down.</p>
<p>Agree she needs to step up to the plate and start to own the process-- is there a teacher at her school willing to help her do some of the groundwork given the counselors lack of interest? Or go directly to the principal?</p>
<p>
Unfortunately it is quite possible she will not make it to NM finalist with the bad grades. Ds and Fs on the transcript could definitely be a problem.</p>
<p>"Would niece be better off transferring back to the highly competitive performing arts school? She could do her senior year there. The person who was a bad influence has left the school, so that is no longer an issue. Would that make a difference in terms of her opportunity? "</p>
<p>Probably a good idea for her to do that. She’ll be surrounded by highly motivated students sharing similar goals as she has, and may be positively influenced by them.</p>
<p>If it ends up that she has to go to community college, she may be able to get merit aid for tuition, and then work a job so she can cover the rest of her expenses while living away from home --possibly in a cheap shared apartment. As smart as she seems to be, she should be able to do well in community college while working as much as 30 hours a week. I had highly motivated, smart college students who did this.</p>
<p>blossom - that’s how I feel. If she is removed from the dysfunctional family, I think she will be much better off. I’m not sure what her grades have been - I’ve only heard reports through the mom. I do know that she took two AP classes this year, so she must have done something to earn that. I’ve asked that they gather her transcripts so she has the information to move forward. I hope she makes NM Finalist - it sounds like that will really help her. I suggested to both mother and niece that they cultivate a relationship with the guidance counselor but both said that the guidance counselor is not helpful at all. I told them to go to the principal…I think they are just making excuses. </p>
<p>My dream for her would be that she could find a school in the NY area that awards scholarships for acting talent with obvious academic ability. She is interested in psychology, but her true love is acting. She will work throughout school - she’s worked as long as I can remember. She needs a new start. Is there any hope for a scholarship at a SUNY school for acting?</p>
<p>The thing that worries me about the performing arts school is that the environment (maybe it’s just this school) is very permissive and lacks discipline. It may just be that it’s not what I’m used to - but the lack of academic discipline concerns me. If being a graduate of this school could really give her an advantage then it might be worth it. Frankly, anything to springboard her to a life of independent success.</p>
<p>First- this whole discussion is irrelevant if you don’t know precisely what this girl’s grades are. You can not base anything upon supposition. If she has top grades then there is something to work with and a college may be willing to take a chance, but if they, as I suspect, are low or very erratic, then there is nothing to be done at this time other than to tell her to shape up and prepare to take a year or two to get back on track. If you are going to continue this admirable quest, tell “niece” to bring each and every report card (she can go to her school counselor or office and ask them to make a transcript with all of her grades from all schools so that she only has to deal with 1-2 pieces of paper) to you and take a look for yourself. Then you know which direction to go, hopefully!
I would NOT send her back to the PA school. She lives with no structure and that sounds like it impacts her in many ways, the last thing she needs for her senior year is to be drifting around with no one paying attention to where she is or what she is doing. Is there a possibility that she could move out of her home and live elsewhere? Just being in a stable environment might do a world of good. Frankly, you may have to sit her down and talk about a gap year; junior year is the most important in high school and the one upon which most colleges base their decisions on ( although the early part of senior year is included also). She’s pretty much made a hash of school until now, with sporadic flashes of brilliance, so consistency is key. I know you mean well, we can hear it and I’m sure that I speak for others here in saying that we admire you and thank you for caring so much, but you can not do this for her. Sure, she may sound excited when she goes to a college fair,etc, but can she sustain the level of acheivement needed to remain in college if she gets there? If not, she will just sink further and it will doom her chances to be re-admitted if she has to leave. Go on-line and take a good look at the CUNY schools. They are nearby, and the price is right. She may have to go to college part-time and work a full-time job, but I think they will work with her to make it possible. Up to now, she certainly hasn’t shown the material needed for a college to offer her much in the way of scholarship aid, and certainly not a full-ride. But, in NY, she can apply for a TAP, use a PELL,and work-study (those go quickly at colleges, so she needs to stay on top of a schedule). Could you accompany her to visit a CUNY Admissions office? Make an appt. and sit down to talk with a person who could advise her. Is she willing to tell the truth about her family life in a situation like that? She will have to if she wants to get help based upon her own finances and not her parents. Also, although it is difficult to become “emancipated” in NY, it can be done-the info is available on line. Would she be willing to take that route? That would mean that she has to move out of her parents’ residence but would make it far easier to go through the FA process.
Bottom line- she needs structure and a disciplined environment. SHE has to want to make it to and through college, your wanting it doesn’t count and she has to know that she must follow through and not make excuses. I doubt that the PA school would change her chances in appying for college, especially at this point and the laxity would be a detriment. Sure, she doesn’t want to take a gap year or join Americorps or the military, but she doesn’t have the money to pay for college and her work, up to this point, is not impressive enough to gain attention from any college. Given her grades,etc colleges are more likely to see her standardized test scores as an anomaly, a freak occurance, and weigh the grades and behavior issues more heavily- she needs to understand that. If everything jived with her scores, I would tell you to look into the QuestBridge program, but they won’e give her the time of day with her class grades the way they are.
There are application fees needed for colleges-have her go to her Guidance counselor and explain the home situation and ask if she can have fee waivers, most colleges accept them. Having some experience with friends of D’s applying to colleges as Drama majors, I can tell you that schools are most assuredly going to look a little more at the grades, because a BFA is awarded and more time is spent in academic classrooms. Please, I know you have good intentions, but stop looking for places that “will give her a scholarship” and concentrate upon what is here and now. She may have talent, but without the grades to back it up, she may end up looking at AMDA ( Google it), where it doesn’t matter.</p>