<p>In well to do communities in NY, especially at private schools, you would expect there are also many legacies at top colleges. This is strange.</p>
<p>It’s Western New York, but there are legacies here as well. I plan to wait until this year’s listing comes out, and then maybe ask the GC about it…</p>
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<p>Yes, that is exactly what is suggests…or more correctly, it suggests that the product of your high school is not as well regarded as the product of other high schools. For example, our HS (just a California free public), usually gets the top dozen into HYPSM et al.</p>
<p>The other thing to consider is that small schools are at a disadvantage, according to Michelle Hernandez. All other things equal, it it much more impressive (to HYPSM) to be a Val of a 500+ person class than a 30 person class.</p>
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Good point, although these classes were 185, 192, and 146. </p>
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It seems to me that if you have a curve on the grades, you still have to have a distribution. Someone was making a point on one of the threads that, while everyone (nearly) who goes to TIPPY-TOP U is at the top of their HS class, once at U, they have to distribute and some will be at the bottom. They can’t all be #1.</p>
<p>^Right.</p>
<p>But what do you call the person who graduates at the bottom of her class in medical school? </p>
<p>Doctor. :)</p>
<p>I agree with College4three, Levirm and Redroses that this could be a case of students/parents self selecting certain universitities as top choices. Do most of the top students go on to marticulate at Catholic colleges?</p>
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<p>While the size might be relevant, the issue is really about how a school presents its students. Catholic schools are known for offering a solid core of classes, tough grading, and resisting to jump of the popular educational gimmicks such as IB, or even jumping onto the costly AP bandwagon. All in all, the “marketing” of students is often lacking, albeit the results are more … honest. Unfortunately, in the ultra competitive world of high selective admissions, the packaging and marketing have become as ubiquitous as necessary, especially since it WORKS so well with adcoms.</p>
<p>If guidance counselors are typically pretty weak in understanding the changes, it seems that catholic schools have had the hardest time adjusting. With salaries that are much lower than at their public counterparts, the guidance profession at catholic schools does not attract many young, dedicated, and highly educated and competent professionals. Too often, GC at catholic schools are borrowing pages from the past, as well as clinging to yesterday’s notions of academic success and core values. For instance, many catholic schools will proudly share that 100% of their students DO attend a college, showing a great concern for their bottom half. On the other hand, the competing public school, as a direct result of the various “school within a school” tricks, might send its top students to highly selective schools and not be overly concerned about dropouts and their bottom half. </p>
<p>Different missions, different objectives! And alas, also different results.</p>
<p>Just had to put a shout out for public schools… My son is graduating from a public school in California (yes, the broke state). The class is very large (772 students) and we have seniors attending: UPenn, Harvard, MIT, Brown, Emerson, U of North Carolina, U of Michigan, Wake Forest, U of Chicago, USC USCD, UCLA and UC Berkeley among others… My son will be attending Berkeley. Not bad for a public school in California…</p>
<p>Oh and this is where they are attending… there were acceptances to Yale, Princeton, Harvey Mudd, Pomona College, etc.</p>
<p>xiggi:</p>
<p>you are absolutely correct, but is the glass half-full or half-empty? The Catholic Prep schools in my 'hood, costing thousands of dollars per year with high GC/student ratios, have lower average test scores than the neighboring publics, which have gc/student ratios of 1/600. No marketing needed, since the mean SAT and AP scores are pretty clear to adcoms. The neighboring Catholics also have great athletic programs, and their kids that are accepted to the Ancient Eight (and Stanford) tend to be recruited athletes. If I recall, last year one Catholic HS had it’s starting five b’ball accepted to top 20 colleges. Sure, they may send 90%+ to a four year college, but is Cal State xx worth the HS cost (when they guarantee acceptance with anyone with ~B average in college prep classes)?</p>
<p>^^^^ Got to be Mater Dei… I hear you on that one!</p>
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<p>BB, while we know that all public high schools are not cut from the same cloth, it seems harder to convince people that Catholic schools also come in a shapes and form. All in all, it often comes to the location with a world of difference between the urban and impoverished schools and the small Shangri-Las that have been created in the new suburban areas. At the end, it all comes to the availanility of resources. In our neck of the woods, the private schools are the poor kids on the block. </p>
<p>And, fwiw, there is a LOT more than SAT and AP scores than come in play. Grading policies, liberal uses of weights, and overall grading toughness come in play. Policies such as having no final exams for perfect attendance are not part of the world of the Catholic schools I know, and neither are an “apple for an A.” Although this is all anecdotal, I learned how different the world of an athlete at a tough grading high school could be from that at one local public schools. While I do not doubt that the exact opposite could be true in other localities, this is what I … observed.</p>