High School Awards...do they matter??

Parents Forum
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<p>
[quote]
Tlaktan, what did you put in all the spaces on the Georgetown app?From the breakdowns they provide each year of the activities and honors of the class, seems to indicate that they have a pretty throrough idea of what these kids did in highschool. IT looked like a very busy, and productive group to me. I don't remember the GT app as it has been too many years since S1 applied there.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It was definitely common app style, six slots. It consisted of: extracurricular activity name, grade levels participated in, and positions earned/achievements rec'd. Since I held positions in all six extracurricular activities, I put the leadership role above the awards (esp. in ROTC).</p>

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<p>My D received many HS awards this year but she only really wanted one- Top AP Stats student. (which she got) It became a joke when she received the Physics(hates it), and Health (ugh) awards. She was getting yelled out at the event for taking the stupid awards too. Her story was even odder in that they always give out a science award for the top 3 year student (Bio, Chem, Physics) based on science cum GPA. My D clearly had the highest average but when they found out that she was NOT going into science (No AP sciences next year) they knew it would be stupid to give the award to her. That was a good move on their part, but instead of giving it to the next qualified student they decided not to give it out this year. Something else to get on My D's case about. Whenever my D's name was called for other awards- writing, BB/BS, etc everyone would laugh. Needless to say my D would have rathered only the one award and not taken the humiliation.</p>

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<p>contrary opinion:
It was SO nice to see academic awards given at my son's highschool. Half the awards program was filled with sports awards. Many of the remaining were in service and leadership. Academic awards seemed in the minority. They give no book awards (Are only certain highschools invited to distribute these, or must the school apply?)</p>

<p>His highschool also does not promote many extracurricular competitions (outside of sports and music). I hear of all types of activities offered by other schools (debate, model UN, science competitions, etc.) that are not offered at the local HS. The small local academic awards are often the only thing some students can list for excellent academic work. </p>

<p>It may be correct that these don't mean much to the top colleges -- but I think they can and should be appreciated by the students.</p>

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<p>savvymom,</p>

<p>It really is amazingly sad the way kids treat eachother sometimes. I am sorry your DD had to go through that tough time, especially when it should have been a celebration.</p>

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<p>Academic awards...I spent way too much time in HS being upset about these awards; its great that your kids have figured out how these awards really work. Here's my story...</p>

<p>One year, I was really working very hard in AP USH and hoping for the award. Once I got an invite to awards night, I figured that award was a lock [because despite my A's I didn't think I had been award-worthy in any other class that year]. At the ceremony, I learned that that the award went to a student who was solidly ranked in the middle of that class while I had the top average. I was upset to say the least. Later a friend tells me 'I'm sorry you didnt get AP USH, but I knew before the ceremony that you wouldn't. Mr. F told me that he had made award decision based on 1 particular test on which Chris beat your score by 3 points because he thought it was impressive that Chris beat you on that one test, despite the fact that you held the highest average from Sept. onwards. Mr. F said he kind of feels bad about it now but there's nothing he can do and Chris deserves to win even though he isn't #1 cause he's a great kid.' Made perfect sense, as the teacher & Chris were best buddies--with Chris hanging with the teacher, gossiping about other students etc. It is often a popularity contest in which the most vocal kids often win out because certain teachers really look for any opporunity to justify an award for a popular, likeable kid. I must have had some teenage angst [cause I would NEVER do it now] but I confronted the teacher--to verify my friends story and make sure it wasn't just some gossip and to reaffirm that I was the top student in the course and he chose not to give the award to the students #1, #2, #3, or #4 etc. </p>

<p>The lesson: awards are good, they're nice to have on applications, its particularly nice to have repeat honors [i.e. French student of the year for 3 years running etc] However, don't let your kids waste energy being upset about them. HS is a good time to learn that often, no matter how hard you work, life is a popularity contest. Remind them that their colleges do know this. Sure, they look favorably on awards, but they take it with a grain of salt; if a kid has 10 awards on the application but is ranked #20 in their class, adcoms do wonder how this kid, who is clearly not the top in his class is getting these awards and is their something else at play [like a really vocal personality]--this is a direct quote from an adcom member that I spoke with about this subject after I was already in college. With very few school awards [actually just 1 at application time] I have managed a relatively successful academic career culminating in 2 Ivy league degrees. So remember..awards are not the be all and end all. </p>

<p>Sorry this is so lengthy--awards are just one of those topics that I really worried about in HS so I just wanted to share my 2 cents--particularly what I picked up in college when I was around adcoms. I welcome any PMs on this.</p>

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<p>Ummm... aj125, just because someone is racked number 20, does not mean that that person is not at the top of the class. I have a short story to tell. </p>

<p>I go to two schools: one's my normal high school, and the other is a math and science magnet school. Even though I go to both of them, I'm still compared to my classmates that just go to my normal high school when it comes to class rank (It's easier to get an A in those classes than it is at the Center). Some of the people that are ranked above me do go to the Center with me half of the time so I know that they take the harder classes and deserve it, but I'm not so sure about some of the other people that are up there even though I personally like many of them as people. All in all, there were 17 people in my class that still had 4.0 UW GPAs. I was ranked number 19, and had a 3.9643 UW GPA (All the courses that I take at the Center are either honors or AP). There was only 1 class that gave me trouble in high school, and that class was Accelerated Chemistry during my sophomore year at the Center. Class rank shouldn't always be given as much weight as it is because it may be measuring something that shouldn't be compared in the first place (like two totally different curriculums).</p>

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<p>My D has an unusual tale. She always did well in her HS Math and Science subjects. Not the best in the classes, but definitely her strong suit. She was TIPPED on her SAT's with the Math about 180 points stronger than her verbal. In addition, she bombed the writing SATII which prolly kept her out of Tufts and U of Chicago for which she was waitlisted. Now here is the kicker. She DID NOT receive any Math and Scie awards at her HS awards night. Rather..she won the YALE BOOK AWARD which provided her with two satchels of lo and behold! a complete compendium of Shakespeare's works and a complete history of classical music through the ages on 6 CD's. Why? I asked her. "Oh! I loved my English classes on Shakespeare! I always participated and was always well prepared." I was shocked! Evidently they saw something in her that I did not as a parent. And now that she is at CMU, lo and behold! she has received an "A" in every writing and philosophy class she has taken.... not so in the math and scie. Go figure. I think awards in our HS is based on true passion and perhaps raw talent which is not always observable on the SAT's. I think it presents a complete and thorough picture of the child. I could be wrong but it enables the colleges to see a child's talent from another perspective..not just a number on a test. To say the least, I was proud...and since it was the last award presented that evening, I did alot of nail biting and air swallowing. I never believed.......</p>

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<p>frankly regarding the people that know more about their teachers, i think it's a double-edge sword. it's great to know your teachers more than just the person marking your grades, you learn more from them when their more of a mentor than a teacher (who tells you what to do, or you're force to do it). but i guess the downside i've found is sometimes you don't really know if they're really challenging you enough, giving you the grades because they like you or because you did a really good job. i'd rather have a teacher that i really know but at the same time marks you harder because they know you better. i had a teacher like that in elementary and i think she pushed me to do some excellent work.</p>

<p>as for awards from school, for me personally, i wish they don't give awards at all. i'd rather just go under the radar because you won't have to deal with jealous types who try to discredit you for winning.</p>

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<p>Hey, I got a perfect attendance award for not missing a day from the 5th day until HS graduation. I don't remember being sick a day. Kids seem sicker today - ear infections, allergies, bronchitis; I never had any of that but all 4 of my kids did. But you're right - kids should not come to school sick!</p>

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<p>DoneMom wrote:
"I think that sometimes there can be an overcompensation or even a back lash against a very high achieving student. My son--who admittedly has gotten many awards in the past, received a prize this year from a science competition which included a $1000. grant to the high school for the science dept. There was never any mention of this or expression of appreciation by the principle or other high school personnel--not even to let him know how the money will be used. Also, the school has a special bulletin board to post newspaper articles about student accomplishments; while my son has had multiple significant press write-ups over the past months, not one has been posted. We haven't had senior awards night yet, but I wonder if we might see a continuation of this trend."</p>

<p>As mentioned in my previous post, I really see that tendency at our school as well. You just reminded me of some other similar incidents in addition to those I previously mentioned here. Again, in all these cases, our kids never got upset but we all noticed this and kinda chalk it up of more of the same trend we keep seeing at school. But like with your son, sometimes my kids' awards like that were overlooked too. I can think of an example....both my kids are involved in music. At the school concert, they announced and had each kid on stage stand to be acknowledged if he/she had made it into All States, which was also listed in the program. I recall them doing this also when the Jazz band performed. Making All States is certainly very worthy (my kids have been in it as well). In our state, there is also a "higher" award on the state level and that is winning the All State Scholarship Award via audition. Last year one of my kids won an All State scholarship award for voice and they never mentioned this, only the kids who got into All States. Also for the All State Scholarship Award for Jazz....there was one state winner last year and three honorable mention award winners and two of these (one being my daughter) came from our school which is quite an honor to the school (which is a small school). Again, they only had the kids who got into All States for Jazz stand up and have their names mentioned, not these state winners. In fact, my D was the only kid in the state to win a state award in two categories (was mentioned at All state festival). The weird thing was even though she won for voice and for jazz, she did not get into All States itself that year (the All State director himself found that highly unusual). So, at the school concert, since the music faculty only mentioned who got into All States and had them stand up, she was not recognized, yet had won a 'higher" level recognition that few in the state receive. This year, three kids in the state won a All State Scholarship Award for Jazz, two of whom were from our school, my D being one of them (hers was for jazz vocals). Again, snubbed for some odd reason in school concert program...only mention of who got into All States itself (which ironically again she had not, even though was given a "higher" award at All States). You would think this had brought such honor to the music program to have two of the three state winners in jazz come out of our program, but you would never know it at the school level. My D also won the National Foundation for the Advancement of the Arts Merit Award in musical theater (only ARTS Award winner from VT in any of the categories...including music, dance, theater). Not even sure if her school knows or cares. I am sure if they do, they will never choose to recognize it. </p>

<p>Again, it doesn't matter because we don't need the school to recognize it but after a while, it becomes more and more blatant that recognizing top achievers is a big no no at our school. Do we get irritated? No, but we almost find it a running joke. </p>

<p>The final school concert is next week....I'll be curious if the trend keeps up or just what. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>That's really too bad. I think we as a school were somewhat guilty of not recognizing the students in our school who received national honors in sports. Finally we had an assembly to show off our gymnast who is going to European championships next month, our soccer players who compete locally, our ping pong star!</p>

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<p>soozievt, this is exactly the case at my D's school. The athletes are heralded. The "popular" students are given academic awards publicly. The quiet, brilliant ones are purposefully ignored. I suspect it's because these students are a heckuva lot smarter than their teachers who are incredibly threatened. Silly reverse logic, isn't it? You'd think the teachers and administration would acknowledge excellence of students as a reflection of excellence in teaching (rightly or wrongly so) and bask in the light. But they don't. I keep telling my D the usual pablum about how high school is not the be all and end all, that college will be better, that $$$ earned by hard work are more important than a mention of her name at announcements, yahduhyahduhyahduh...but these are cold bedfellows.</p>

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<p>guiltguru, you and I have been giving the same speech. In two days it will be over at my house and all that will matter will be that they will be forced to announce his big-$$ scholarship at the last assembly because they announce everyone's. Thank God my son, too, will finally get some recognition for what he has been and, more importantly, will be!</p>

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<p>I thought my kids were the only ones ignored in school. They go to a small Catholic high school so nepotism runs rampant. It seems the louder kids or those whose parents "live" at school get more recognition than the quiet, intelligent types. Our award ceremony is next week and I truly dread going to it. Fortunately, they both did well on the National Latin Exam and AMC because they won't get any recognition when the teachers vote on the awards. I do hope college is better for this type of individual.</p>

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<p>Palermo, I really hear you, and it's very comforting to hear someone say what you did about the parents who "live" at school, too. We've often wondered how much of what our son has been denied has been a consequence of our not being in that little coterie, too. We know it's affected his experience in band. Who knows about the rest?</p>

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<p>"Of particular note I remember being selected for HOBY was pooh-poohed unless you were selected for HOBY international, but to be selected from over 1,200 sophomores at our school was an honor. "</p>

<p>Where a student is applying also matters when one considers the student's awards. </p>

<p>Frankly, at probably the majority of colleges, it is considered a distinction if a student has gotten any awards at all. If a student was sal/val, HOBY representative, in NHS -- that's probably a very big deal.</p>

<p>At colleges at the bottom half of tier one -- places like University of Florida, Wake Forest, etc. , such awards still count.</p>

<p>It's only when one gets to the very top colleges -- HPYS and similar schools that there's such an abundance of vals/sals. HOBY representatives, NHS officers, team captains, that to stand out a great deal in the pool, a student has to have done more -- much more.</p>

<p>At this level, the typical student who gets in has had some kind of regional, state and/or national award (other than National Merit, which does not make students stand out at these kind of schools because they are flooded with applications from NM finalists). The ones whom I have seen get in tend to have: major leadership in one or two activities at the school level (This leadership is more than resume dressing, but includes evidence that the student has made some kind of difference); and have had honors at the regional, state and/or national level in two fields.</p>

<p>For instance, a student may have gotten a first place in a regional art show plus have been a national officer in National Honor Society. Another example: A student was a top 10 national finisher in in academic competitions in two completely different fields. Such students also tend to be vals or sals, but students whose top honor is being val or sal from a good public or private school are probably not going to stand out in a pool in which most students are people whom virtually all colleges in the country would be glad to have, yet for space reasons, only 1 in 10 or 11 such students will be accepted at a place like Harvard.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, however, a val or sal who's a NHS officer or something similar would probably be showered with attention from their state flagship university: merit scholarships, honors dorms, etc. It's not as if such honors are meaningless or earn no rewards for the students who got them.</p>

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<p>Picking up on what Northstarmom wrote above which goes back to my first post on this thread and that is that achievements are important and it is not always what the title is of that achievement and indeed it may not even have an "award" title. Sometimes kids have a title like president of this or that club but it is mostly a name and not that much achieved other than being voted the president. Sometimes kids have made a difference in their school, community or state without an award or title attached to it. They may have started a business or organization, for instance, where they affected some sort of change. Often these achievements can speak as loud on an app as some award or title. I can think offhand of how one of my kids, while not elected an officer of the Student Senate, though was a senator (except one year was not even that but still did the work regardless), spearheaded two policy initiatives for her school that eventually went to the school board, one being passed as official policy and the other going to that final stage after she graduated though was defeated basically. But those leadership initiatives did not have a title or award but still are an achievement. My other kid created/produced/direccted the first student run musicals ever at our high school which again is not an existing title or award but an achievement that I believe was noted on her app materials (including by adults who wrote on her behalf). So, the leadership must go beyond a title and show something actually achieved. And that can also be done without a title or an official award attached to the achievement. </p>

<p>In response to quiltguru, ctymom and palermo....I totally understand what you guys are saying about circumstances at your respective schools, though actually it doesn't actually parallel what I was sharing that you were responding to. </p>

<p>Quiltguru...I wasn't saying that the quiet brilliant ones were ignored and that only popular or sports oriented achievements were recognized. Actually the example I was giving of my youngest child above (the state music awards)....she actually got the awards but the school only mentioned the kids who got into All States but totally ignored mentioning any kid who achieved anything "higher". Also, she definitely is NOT a quiet kid, LOL. To the contrary, in fact. I realize you did not know that and what is going on at your school is not so great either but just saying that was not the exact same issue here. However, I totally agree with you that what is disillusioning is that one might think that they would want to recognize excellence as it is a reflection, in part, of any excellence on the part of them as teachers or the school itself. This goes back to something I shared here in November that I won't rehash now (you did not post back then, I do not think) about how the music dept. head wanted to squelch my child's efforts to produce another student run musical this past winter after the overwhelming success of her first such endeavor the previous winter and her main reason was imbedded with jealousy issues on her part as to how successful it was and how much the kids loved it over some of the music activities those same kids were in under her direction. One would have thought, however, that the success of the student run musical which brought many accolades in the community (besides the fact that the kids donated all the substantial proceeds to charity), would refect back on the music department positively (like look what they are doing there, isn't it great??) because many in the community likely assumed it was run by the music staff and not have realized it was done from start to finish by the kids independently. It really made the dept. look good. And like I said, to have a kid like mine get the top state award in music should also reflect back well on the dept. (not even counting the national award as well) and be worth mentioning at the concert or in the program when they actually did both with regard to achievements that were at not as high of a level (though completely noteworthy and commendable of course!!). </p>

<p>CTYMom....that is nice that they announce all scholarships at the event at your school. Not here. At graduation, they mentioned some from VT colleges and such but not others but I don't really mind because we know and that is all that counts. My daughter received scholarship and a certain honors type selection but it will never be mentioned but that's ok but just saying here, they do not mention each one at all....as you sit at graduation, one would think that the only honors were the ones they chose to mention because those kids got something on a more local level, I guess. </p>

<p>Palermo, I hear ya on that problem you describe. That was not really what I was talking about but I realize it is a different version of an issue. Here, what I mostly have observed with both my kids is almost like overly politically correct. In an effort to recognize kids at lower levels academically or who might not even be going to college, and so forth (though I do believe these kids ALSO deserve recognition for achievements in their respective classes), there is a tendency here to overlook the kids at the top and not recognize them publicly. They go overboard here to recognize these other kids, again who are deserving for other reasons, but not with the kids who I guess they see as not needing recognition because we would not want to make other kids feel badly. It is like almost a hush hush, let's not shower any attention on high achievers because it makes the others feel lesser in some way. That is an overriding tendency at our school, or so it has seemed over the years. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>I have often thought about how there are different standards for dealing with academic accomplishment verses athletic accomplishment. For example, with the former, people often resent when one student gets many of the awards in different subjects, even though that student clearly had the highest average in each of those subjects and achieved at the highest level. They feel that the school should spread the wealth, so the speak. However, in sports, the kid who runs the fastest, jumps the highest, or always wins the game is the winner no matter what....in other words, its purely merit, regardless of how many times you win in sports.</p>

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<p>I know a portion of this thread has been spent as "But...this award's different!" but I do have a question.</p>

<p>The HS is a private school, with typically 99% of a graduating class of 300-375 going onto college. The school does not rank, or if it does, it doesn't tell the students or the parents. Even the "valedictorian" isn't named. The student graduation speaker is a person who is selected to speak, regardless of rank, GPA, or involvement-- he/she prepares a speech, presents it to a panel of teachers, then to the senior student council, and is voted the graduation speaker. </p>

<p>The award is a Sophomore/Junior etc. of the Year award, given out to one student in each class. I believe the award recognizes academic achievement, character, and involvement. With these qualifiers, would it benefit the applicant (who has received the ___ of the Year award 2 out of 3 times) to mention it on his application, or perhaps ask a recommender to mention it and explain the award a bit?</p>

<p>And one more question--what is a Book Award, exactly?</p>

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<p>We recently had end of the year awards ceremony which lasted three hours and what seemed like 300 different awards. Son was accepted at Yale, Harvard, MIT, Penn, Cornell, Wesleyan, etc. but received only a National Merit Award. We watched as mediocre students received most of the awards. At first we were bitter but then realized that he got the biggest prize of all and that is four years at Yale. My best advice is forget about all these BS awards and focus on the real prize.</p>