<p>Our daughter will be starting High School (9th Grade) in the Fall. We have made the decision to send her to a local small private school as opposed to one of the larger public high schools.</p>
<p>Even though the local public high school is considered to have a strong academic reputation and offers a large variety of Advanced Placement courses. We feel that the overall environment is far more positive and wholesome at the small private school. We also think that she will enjoy a richer tapestry of experiences at the smaller school. Where activities are less impacted.</p>
<p>Our daughter loves sports, theater, choir, and media arts. She excels at all of them. She is also a straight "A" honors student and has been in the public school GATE program (Gifted and Talented Education) since 3rd grade.</p>
<p>In general we feel very good about our decision to send her to the small private school. However, we do have some uncertainty in one area. If she were to attend the public school she would take Algebra 2 as a Freshman, Pre-calc as a Sophomore, Calc as a Junior, and Statistics as a Senior.</p>
<p>At the private school they want to start her in Algebra 1, then Geometry, followed by Pre-Calc, then Calculus. Essentially she would have to retake two years of math that she already took as a middle schooler. Granted the Algebra 1 and Geometry courses she would take as the private school would be honors courses. On the one hand we think it is a shame that she has to retake courses that she worked so hard in to receive top grades in. On the other hand we have been told we should consider it a gift because our daughter's true strength is in language arts. Retaking the courses as honors courses would give her a 5.0 grade for an "A" and would still put her on a path to take her 4 years of college prep math. We are advised that it will allow her to focus her time and energy on advanced placement courses where her strengths lie and a better GPA strategy for getting into a top university (Stanford, UCLA, etc.).</p>
<p>I am sorry for the long winded question but I am hoping for some insight from parents or teacher and counselors who have first hand similar experience.</p>
<p>What does your daughter want to do? Repeating 2 years could make her life easier, since she would probably not have to work very hard in those classes. Also, if her math skills are at all shaky (unlikely since you said she earned top grades), the repetition might be beneficial. On the other hand, it sounds dull, dull, dull to me. You'd think a small private school could offer her some better options than wasting her time repeating two classes she has already done well in. Can you ask them to let her do independant study math? There are excellent online options. If she'd like to let her class catch up to her, she could take number theory and counting and probability through Art of Problem Solving. Their classes are excellent (<a href="http://www.artofproblemsolving.com)%5B/url%5D">www.artofproblemsolving.com)</a>.</p>
<p>Is there a chance that "honors" is more than just a label, and the courses might offer a different perspective and a special challenge that might be appealing to your daughter? Is there any way to get a copy of a previous semester's syllabus and get an idea of what is covered and what is expected of the student in the class?</p>
<p>If we're assuming that it would be exactly the same and be an easy A, there's certainly no downside to taking the easy A in an honors course. If nothing else, it will really hammer down the essential building blocks of math that will serve her well in later years. It'll also let her get very comfortable with the new school's teaching methodology before she begins unfamiliar and even more challenging material.</p>
<p>It may quite simply be too boring and completely not worth it. If that turns out to be the case, look into your other options. I can't imagine a private high school that isn't more flexible with requirements, especially with regards to independent study and dual-enrollment (though it's probably a bit too early to worry about that!).</p>
<p>I think that spending two years studying something that your D already knows is likely to turn out to be a dreadful waste of very important time. </p>
<p>I am skeptical of the idea of taking that path for the specific purpose of grooming her transcript for college. Challenging all of her mind, getting a complete education, is her most important task for the next four years imho.</p>
<p>It might be interesting to hear what the math teachers at her current school think of this plan. I would imagine that they have had students in the past who went on to this private school.</p>
<p>I'm also a little surprised that Algebra I would be an "honors" class in 9th grade at the private school. At many places, the best students now study Algebra in 8th grade, even 7th grade as apparently your D did. What grade will her Algebra classmates at the private school be in? If 9th, why didn't they take Algebra in 7th or 8th grade? Perhaps the math curriculum at the private school isn't as advanced as that of the public school system.</p>
<p>Did she take a placement test? Does the small private school have a track record of honors students coming from your high school who struggle at the next level of math? </p>
<p>Actually it's a good strategy if you and your daughter are certain that she is not a math/science person. Colleges like to see applicants taking the hardest possible courses, which your daughter would do. </p>
<p>The question is whether or not your daughter will be OK with repeating. Will she see it as a gift or as a humiliation? You also want to be certain that the middle school courses do not show on her high school transcript. My son took 2 honors-level math courses for high school credit while he was in middle school, and I was told that these are on his high school transcript. They were accepted for credit, so this probably won't be an issue for you. </p>
<p>It would also be worth asking whether the "Calculus" classes aim at an AP exam, and which one. "BC Calculus", which perhaps the public school is aiming at, typically gives two semesters of college credit for acceptable scores on the AP exam. "AB Calculus", which covers less material, typically gives one semester. Which test does each school aim for?</p>
<p>I know many kids who moved from top public schools to top private schools and were required to repeat an entire grade, not just a couple of classes, because the classes at the private schools were more rigorous. And since a significant number of the private school students had come "up the ranks" in top private elementary and middle schools, their entire education had been different, if not more rigorous, and the private high school curriculum was geared more as a continuation of that private education.</p>
<p>I wouldn't be so quick to assume that she'd actually be "repeating" information. Perhaps some of it would be repetitive (as some of Algebra II is repetitive of Algebra I), but it is just as likely that these classes will go further into the subject than she did in her public school.</p>
<p>I think repeating two years of math is likely to be a buge waste of time. When we were in a similar situation we persuaded our middle school to give the final exam for the course my son wanted to skip as a placement exam When he passed with flying colors they were willing to let him skip. If she needs to repeat it will be obvious. It is one of the disadvantages of small private schools they are often quite inflexible about things like this. My brothers kids ended up transferring to the local public school when their private school eliminated any possiblility of moving ahead in math. Good luck.</p>
<p>If it's really working out badly, there will probably be ways to make adjustments. Most of the private schools I know (and the public schools, too) really want to find educationally appropriate solutions for students who are smart and work hard. But the first tendency is always to follow the tried-and-true path. You and your daughter may need to give it a good-faith "college try" before you announce that she isn't learning anything.</p>
<p>And, on the other hand, one of the issues at a small private school may well be scheduling, if it doesn't have a plethora of appropriate math courses. It's entirely possible that the math situation may be sub-optimal, but that it will be hard to fix the problem without creating new ones in other areas. At that point, your daughter may have to make a decision about what she values most.</p>
<p>If she's already learned the material, then repeating math classes you already know is a complete waste of time. Doing that for two years is just plain ludicrous! Education is not about getting into college, it's about getting educated. I would either ask them to place her in Algebra 2, and if they can't because the school is too small and it poses scheduling difficulties, I would ask them to let her do math independently from EPGY (epgy.stanford.edu) at the appropriate level. She could go to the library and watch the lectures while her classmates are padding their GPA's with a repetition of algebra.</p>
<p>Wow, thank you for all the rapid responses. I am so glad I found this website. I will try to answer some of the questions posed in hopes that it will help me find consensus.</p>
<p>Our daughter isn't very happy right now that we are sending her to private school. She wants to attend the public school with her friends. She knows a couple of girls at the private school and likes them but they are not her close buddies. In general she see the smaller school as being "Lesser". This issue with the math courses does not help that impression.</p>
<p>Math is not her strongest skill set. She works very hard to get her good grades. She also receives some tutoring. Her language skills are off the chart. Undoubtedly her college future will be in language arts, media, theater or the like.</p>
<p>I do think she feels humiliated not to be moving on to Algebra 2 right away. However there is no doubt that a review will help her skills. There is the chance that the honors version of the course will present new challenges. However, the reason the school will not put her straight into Alg 2 is because of how weak the math programs are at the local parochial K thru 8 schools. They recognize the public schools superiority in math but say that she will have to challenge the placement and test out of Alg 1 and Geometry. That too is a tough prospect for a girl who gets her grades by grinding them out and is not a math whiz. </p>
<p>We have no doubt that she is ready to handle Alg 2. However, we also recognize that starting her in Alg 2 will compel her to take higher conceptual math in order to complete her 4 year requirement. We are not sure that this future Liberal Arts student shouldn't focus her time, energy, and efforts on AP courses in areas where she is strong like English and History.</p>
<p>At our high school, the usual math progression for those who have already taken Algebra 1 in middle/junior high school is geometry, Algebra 2, pre-calc and calc. I am very surprised that a middle school geometry class would be good enough to cut the mustard at high school.</p>
<p>I'd try to finagle my way into the geometry class. The progression suggested by the private school did not include Algebra 2. Frankly, I'd rather ditch algebra 1 than algebra 2.</p>
<p>In our private schools, our kids had to test out of standard course placement. No one made any presuppositions about how strong or how weak the kids' preparations in the courses were. If they passed the test, fine. If they failed, then they repeated the courses. If they were borderline in the pass or the fail there was discussion. However many independent schools are extremely rigorous and have a tough grading scale. Tough enough that those colleges who know them take that into consideration. If your daughter is not strong in the subject, it would be wise to retake those courses, since they provide an important foundation for the future. Strong grades would be much better for her, than advanced placement with lower grades. She is going to have enough things to adjust for in her first year there. Better she get a good start grade wise. </p>
<p>My son who was an A student in elementary school and did test out of the Alg 1 and into the Alg2 Honors is struggling in the C range this year as a freshman. I wish he did take the Alg 1 honors instead. The kids in that class are all very sharp and math oriented, and though he is a hard worker, he is just not a quick study in math and it moves too quickly for him.</p>
<p>Right now, you see liberal arts as a possible future for your daughter, but things can change as she gets older. </p>
<p>My oldest son, who is now a junior, always saw himself as the math/science, and boy, was he good at those subjects. Still is. Has taken every math offered at our HS and is through AP Stat. Has taken AP Bio and AP Chem. He will take AP Physics next year. </p>
<p>Well, things changed when he got to high school. My son found out something. He could write, thanks to an English teacher who inspired him. Will he major in English in college? I doubt it. But he also loves history, political science and languages, again thanks to his wonderful teachers. </p>
<p>He has had the same English teacher for three years. He sees more of her than I see of him some days. She is a terrific teacher, but moreover, she is an awesome person. </p>
<p>My point is that my son changed as he got older. Your daughter, too, might change. She might get a teacher who really turns her onto science or math. My son would say that his life is more rich, because of his many "liberal arts" teachers. Maybe your daughter's will be, too, thanks to a great math or science teacher.</p>
<p>" I am very surprised that a middle school geometry class would be good enough to cut the mustard at high school."</p>
<p>At our school, the kids who have algebra I and geometry in middle school move faster and learn more than the kids who are older when they take these classes, because the younger kids are generally excellent math students and can absorb the material faster. I would guess you need to find out how rigorous the honors designation really is.</p>
<p>There is a bizarre trend these days of rapidly accelerating children in math. Except for an extremely small percentage of math/science stars, there is <em>absolutely no</em> benefit to this for the child. Taking calculus in 11th grade and then AP Statistics in 12th grade doesn't get a child anything at all. It is just rushing for rushing's sake.</p>
<p>If she's not really into math/science anyway, I don't see how being a little bored in math class is going to be a problem. Sounds like a good way to boost GPA and prepare for the SAT to me...</p>
<p>Forget the comparisons between the private and public school since the label placed on the class means absolutely nothing. What is important is to check the curriculum that will used in 11th grade. Ask to see the books and tests they are using in pre-calculus and that should tell you all you need to know. The most important part is to gain a very strong foundation in pre-calculus. </p>
<p>As far as repeating material covered in middle school, again you should not consider the title of the class but the material covered. Fwiw, I believe that the waste of time might happen when a student leaves a very strong private school for a public school ... rarely the opposite.</p>
<p>My D was in the same situation having been on the GT track at a public middle school and having taken Alg I and Geometry in middle school. She switched to a small private all-girls high school for 9th grade. I called the school around now of that year and asked to have a conference with someone about her placement in math classes for 9th grade. We had a nice conversation with the vice-principal and then a rather stressful conference with the head math teacher. I brought her report cards and previous standardized test scores. They agreed to let her take Alg II as a 9th grader. She has gotten A's in math through high school and it has worked out well. She wasn't all that interested in math in middle school but really got interested in it in high school and now wants to major in something math-related in college. </p>
<p>My D took Alg I, Pre-Calc and now Calculus this year as a junior. She has now exchausted the math offerings at the private school but they have a relationship with a nearby university where she is registered to take Calculus II next year. The only thing that was a little awkward for her at first was that the other students in her math classes were all a year older than her. So she said all this year they called her "the junior." But she became good friends with some of the older girls. </p>
<p>Since it is a small school they have a combined AB/BC Calculus class. The teacher taught AB and then gave an option for students who wanted to take the BC test to come in extra hours before school twice a week in the morning. They also had a few extra after-school study sessions before the AP exam. My D opted to do BC (I think five girls signed up). Of course we haven't gotten the AP scores yet but I hope they all did well. </p>
<p>My younger S was on the same math track but stayed in public school. Interestingly after he finished 7th grade the school district changed the math curriculum and is no longer offering Algebra I to 7th graders. Their rationale was that students weren't well prepared in the lower math basics and were doing poorly on the state standardized math tests. </p>
<p>At this time I'm happy we made the effort to get my D into Alg II as a 9th grader. As for making sure she had a good foundation in algebra and geometry, my D spent a lot of time studying/practicing for the AMC and SAT's among other tests and competitions so she has reviewed all the older material many times over. </p>
<p>Our situation was a little different in that it was our D who really wanted to go to the private school. She hated the public school's emphasis on the state standardized testing and what she felt was not a challenging academic environment.</p>
<p>OP, what would your daughter like to do? If she enjoys math, and was put into Algebra in 7th grade because she was ready for it at that point, she might really want to keep on the math track she's on. My older daughter had the same type of acceleration, and she'd have been be bored silly to be pushed back to Algebra I, especially as she was put in Algebra I in 7th grade because she was bored with the usual math curriculum. On the other hand, if she was at all struggling with the material before, and if she'd welcome a chance to step down a level, she may want to go back and repeat some material. If calculus is the goal for 12th grade, I don't understand how she can be put back in Algebra I and get to Calc by 12th grade. The curriculum seems to be missing Algebra II.</p>
<p>My two cents, no obligation on your part opinion: I respectfully disagree with the idea that if her true gifts are in language arts that she should concentrate on those subjects, and tread water in math. Any 7th grader who is enrolled in algebra and who completes it successfully has at least some small gift for math. In today's world, that's something to be encouraged, regardless of the field your child enters! Being able to handle math-related tasks pops up in the strangest places. Also, I've seen a good number of students who come to realize in college that they really are interested in math and science, but they didn't take the math coursework they'd need to pursue those fields because it wasn't an interest earlier. Sure, they can make up the deficit by taking the coursework in college, but it does really slow down time to degree.</p>