<p>I'm looking for some advice. At my daughter's school the guidance counselor (ex-coach, not at all interested in getting kids into college) fills out the counselor form, seals it and returns it to the student to mail to each school. My daughter was planning to apply to a school with a Feb. 15 deadline, but after she had received three acceptances from other schools decided to skip that one. So, I opened the letter to see what the counselor had written. The letter consisted of three sentences: "______ is a nice girl. She is ranked #1 in her class. She will do well in college." That was the entire letter, also it was handwritten and the second sentence started with a lower-case letter. I'm worried that he had written identical letters on all of her forms. She is still waiting to hear from her #1 choice and another school. Do you think that this letter will hurt her chances, and do you think there is anything I can do about it. I have a younger child, so do not want to rock the boat too much, but I am pretty mad at this guy. I told this story to one of my friends who then opened one of her daughters extra letters and the counselor section was blank. Any advice would be appreciated.</p>
<p>What a nightmare. We have a book called "Get into any college" by a couple named Tanabe. The book has a section that they suggest you give to people who you ask for letters of recommendation. It explains how to write a decent letter. You might want to take a route like that. </p>
<p>In my imagination, though, I see a more direct approach! LOL</p>
<p>Thanks. I guess I should have given him a sample letter, but didn't realize that a "Guidance Counselor" needed guidance.</p>
<p>A good one wouldn't. My son has a great one but I think they may be rare.</p>
<p>How are the other recs? I assume your D also got recs from two teachers. If those recs are well-written and strong, I wouldn't worry about the GC rec. It reflects badly on him- not on your daughter. In fact, it may actually be in her favor that she made it through the application process with such a bozo as a guidance counselor!</p>
<p>That story is pretty shocking to me. A lot of books do advise writing a letter yourself to give the counselor to go off of or at least a list of accomplishments, now I see why it might be a REALLY good idea.</p>
<p>Adcoms are well aware that there are - shall we say - less-than-stellar GCs out there. I have read a number of articles in which the adcom specifically mentions that he or she would not hold a bad GC rec against a student. They know that there are terrible GCs; overworked GCs; inexperienced GCs; etc. If the rest of her app is fine, I wouldn't worry about it at all.</p>
<p>Our school had a disasterous post-secondary counselor last year. Absolutely disasterous. But she left/quit/got fired/whatever and everyone was glad to see her go. She left a large list of undone letters. Thankfully we had a great guy (an intern!!) who jumped in and really straightened out the mess.</p>
<p>BUT... I have always thought that GC letters must be discounted by colleges. Why would a GC know a student's work in depth? The job of the GC letter - I think - is to state the obvious: ____ is a good student, is ranked #____ and will do well at ____ College. I think the whole GC letter is just a sanity check on the other recommendation letters, and the others are the important ones.</p>
<p>Yes, my son prepared a list of activities and things for the GC letter for him, but those kinds of letters will be somewhat impersonal by their very nature. The letter you describe above will NOT reflect negatively on your D, but on the GC. It might even enhance her status when they see the type of help/support she's (not) getting.</p>
<p>It seems like a very bad thing, but I can honestly say that you shouldn't worry about it.</p>
<p>Save the letter, and be sure and do something when you can. I understand not wanting to rock the boat, believe me. Now you know with your younger D what you need to do. Make sure those other recs are strong. </p>
<p>If the coach-gc sent recs like for most kids, I am sure the administration at the high school will hear.</p>
<p>As a high school counselor, I know there are some real horror stories out there and that many are afraid their kids will have similar experiences. I spend a lot of time and care writing letters for my few kids in my rural school who go to private colleges or do scholarship apps. My advice, not for the OP, cause I really am not sure how to undo what has been done, is to have your kids be sure to give their counselor 1) ample notice of need for recs; 2) a current resume of all EC's and important things you would like to have noted in a letter. It also helps if the students provide these materials for teachers from whom they seek recommendations, especially if they think the teacher is super-busy or may not know them very well. </p>
<p>Though I doubt it is any comfort, many colleges and universities understand the vast number of hats school counselors in public schools have to wear, and that counselor/student ratios are often ridiculous; I have to <em>hope</em> that they will not hold it against the students. Hope that is the case if OP's child did gain acceptance to three of the schools to which she applied. Best of luck with the last two. Any chance, Kayjo, you might ask someone else to write a rec? Perhaps some one who knows D well in another context?</p>
<p>Thanks, the rest of her application is fine- she is a leader in the school and captain of the tennis team, and has a lot of awards and other ec's. I guess I am just surprised that a student at the top of her game only received three sentences. They were asked to give him a list of activities, I thought that some of those things would be used in the letter. She did get good recs from her teachers and an excellent one from her boss (a lawyer), that he sent directly to her #1 choice school, we'll have to wait until April for that one though. I think I will just let some of my friends with juniors know that they may want to ask to see their letters before he seals them. I wish I had done that back in the fall.</p>
<p>My son's GC sent a questioneer to us starting his senior year. The purpose was to give him a more complete picture of his students so that he could write a more personal recommendation. We listed some of the major ec's he participated in, his ska band, summer church mission projects, aademic honors, personal attributes, etc. The could be filled out by the students and their parents. He is a great guy and a was a wonderful GC for my son. When he received his teacher recommendations, he offered his suggestion as to which to include with each application though he didnt show him the actual letters. I assume his letter was a good one.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>BUT... I have always thought that GC letters must be discounted by colleges. Why would a GC know a student's work in depth? The job of the GC letter - I think - is to state the obvious: ____ is a good student, is ranked #____ and will do well at ____ College. I think the whole GC letter is just a sanity check on the other recommendation letters, and the others are the important ones.>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>I have not read the letters written by my S's GC, but from what he let slip, the GC did more than just provide a check on the other recs. Since my S had an unusual transcript, he said his letter would address that as well as the lack of usueful GPA and rank. We did not have to urge him to do so. He already had it in mind.</p>
<p>I do know of another GC whose expertise lay more in locating financial aid for average students than in identifying "best fit" colleges as my other S's GC had done. Even within a single school the quality of advice and of recs varies.</p>
<p>Kayjo,
I strongly suggest bringing your concerns to the principal and providing the principal with some examples from books and web sites about what GCs are supposed to do with those forms.</p>
<p>Clearly there's a major problem with the GC's motivation, skills or training. Either the principal needs to bring the GC up to snuff or the GC needs replacing.</p>
<p>Part of my dilemma is that the GC and the principal are cousins- part of the reason the GC still has a job, everyone has complaints about him, but the principal always takes the GC's side.</p>
<p>Man, that sort of conflict of interest is awful in schools, and far too frequently true.</p>
<p>"Part of my dilemma is that the GC and the principal are cousins"</p>
<p>The only thing missing is the background sound of Billy Redden's banjo :) </p>
<p>Kayjo, I feel for your daughter. The story is, alas, most common. Stick around CC, and you'll read about various accounts of incompetence or overburdening of the group that easily represents the weakest link in the college admission process. </p>
<p>The real drama is that colleges still request -and seem to value- the input of GCs. I realize that there are some wonderful GCs -including some who visit CC. This said, I think that we would best served by a system where GCs spend all their time researching colleges, staying abreast of changes, and advising students or parents. The trouble begins when too much is asked or expected from them. Trusting them with the finer points of one's application is a recipe for disaster. </p>
<p>If I have learned one thing about this process, it is how paramount it is for the student to drive the process. It is the student's responsibility to establish a calendar, talk to recommenders to ascertain their level of preparation, and providing examples, if necessary. It is also important to maintain FULL control of the applications, including the mailing of documents. If a GC insists to organize the applications because thet have always done, gently insist that it is not acceptable, and that you'll be happy to bring your parents to the school to discuss the issue. I understand that it is about the opposite of what would expect. However, one should realize that the documents processed by the school are much more important to the student than they ever will be to the teachers and GC.</p>
<p>Xiggi, I hope you might think me one of the good ones! I do have a concern about your suggestions that you mail stuff yourself, though it may in fact often help. The problem is that it may not really solve the problem the OP poses. Students usually have to sign releases so that they may not see the recommendation, and the recs and transcripts are often not acceptable to colleges if they are not sent directly from the schools, or at least in sealed envelopes with counselor's signature across the seal. So, you still wouldn't know how they were completed. Of course, you would have the satisfaction of knowing they got in the mail on time. I know the feeling of powerlessness that comes with this process; son applied to eight colleges and I worry (though rarely) about stuff being done by the folks in his school, and I worry about the US Mail, even with delivery confirmation, and then worry about the admissions folks losing stuff. It is an imperfect world, imperfect process.
I do know that gentle reminders are often a blessing to me in my work, and students' taking some responsibility for the process is very wise.</p>
<p>I generally agree with Xiggi, but those who are blessed with guidance counselors or college counselors who actually have the time, interest and expertise to really help the college bound students - they can organize and mail the packages if they want. It was a super system at DD's school, I would never have thought to try to buck the system. A few careful questions,and it was obvious these ladies knew what they were doing. Best of all, after the student had requested recs from the teachers, and turned in to the counselor's a written request form signed by the teacher and student, the counseling office took on the job of being sure teachers got the recs written.</p>
<p>There's strength in numbers. Get the support of the school's parents' group or another group of concerned parents. Then approach the principal.</p>
<p>Even though the GC is the principal's cousin, that doesn't mean that the principal has to let the cousin remain on the job if lots of parents are concerned and angry. The principal can move the GC to another job. The principal also can arrange for training for the GC. It's not to the principal's advantage to have an incompetent GC even if that person is the principal's cousin.</p>